Talk Cancer

Question:

I’ve been browsing the archives for this often discussed topic, and the concensus seems to be that  a 1% treadmill incline setting would simulate flat surface outdoor running. I would be interested in the opinions of those with extensive treadmill and outdoor running experience.

Response:

I would be interested in the opinions of those with extensive treadmill and outdoor running experience.

GWB is an asshole.

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I’ve been browsing the archives for this often discussed topic, and the concensus seems to be that  a 1% treadmill incline setting would simulate flat surface outdoor running. I would be interested in the opinions of those with extensive treadmill and outdoor running experience.

The 1% comes from a research paper published that showed that raising the incline 1% increased the energy expenditure so that it equaled (or came close) the energy needed to overcome the air drag of running outside.  The faster one runs, the higher the grade needs to be, but I cannot remember where that speed is but it is pretty fast (5min/mile pace IIRC). I would say it would be very hard for a person to feel the difference with any certainty. I have used a crude method to verify this.  Measuring HR on a flat course and then doing the same inside on a treadmill.  1% is pretty close, but there are too many factors in using HR to make it as specific as one needs to be.

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A treadmill has very little with real running.

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I’ve been browsing the archives for this often discussed topic, and the concensus seems to be that  a 1% treadmill incline setting would simulate flat surface outdoor running.

No. 1% compensates for the energy cost of drag. It doesn’t address differences in footing, calibration error, temperature (outdoors could be cooler OR warmer than room temperature), lack of airflow, etc. I would be interested in the opinions of those with extensive treadmill and outdoor running experience.

I’m not sure why you’re so obsessed with "simulating flat surface outdoor running". If that’s the goal, why not just run outdoors ? The important information here, that you don’t provide, is why you need to know this. If you’re interested in logging milage, then I would argue that it actually doesn’t matter a whole lot whether you use the 1% grade or not. The difference is tiny. Mile for mile, terrain such as grass or dirt will always be much more work than miles on pavement on treadmill. If you’re interested in using the proper intensity for steady pace aerobic runs, just select a pace that feels about right. If you’re interested in interval training or speed work, possible calibration error makes it impossible to know exactly how fast you’re going anyway, but I’d recommend taking advantage of the fact that you have an adjustable incline, and doing hill training. The Jack Daniels book has a pace chart for hill training, you might be able to find something on the web too. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

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I’m not sure why you’re so obsessed with "simulating flat surface outdoor running". If that’s the goal, why not just run outdoors ?

The voice of reason.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been browsing the archives for this often discussed topic, and the concensus seems to be that  a 1% treadmill incline setting would simulate flat surface outdoor running. I would be interested in the opinions of those with extensive treadmill and outdoor running experience. The 1% comes from a research paper published that showed that raising the incline 1% increased the energy expenditure so that it equaled (or came close) the energy needed to overcome the air drag of running outside.  The faster one runs, the higher the grade needs to be, but I cannot remember where that speed is but it is pretty fast (5min/mile pace IIRC). I would say it would be very hard for a person to feel the difference with any certainty.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&… Not sure where these values originated http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php I’m always suspicious of the slope readings on the tmills, but I only use them in xt class. — "I used to be real gung-ho. Now I try to look at it as a day hike with a sense of purpose." -Harlow Robinson, winner 2004 Matanuska Peak Challenge (14mi, 9000ft up and down)

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I’m not sure why you’re so obsessed with "simulating flat surface outdoor running". If that’s the goal, why not just run outdoors ?

It’s easy to think of lots of possible reasons.  Maybe he’s training for a race that’s flat, but on lives on the side of a steep hill? (I like treadmill running for the opposite reason.)  Or is training for a warm weather race, but lives where it snows half the year?  Or works in a metro area where some drivers think joggers are targets, if they see pedestrians at all?  Or in the countryside where the mountain lions think runners are slow moving chew toys?  Or wants to run on something slightly softer than concrete?  Maybe skin cancer runs in the family and his doctor told him to limit sun exposure?  etc. yada yada In any case, the year I trained mostly on treadmills, I alternated between 1% and 2% incline because there were a couple large fans blowing diagonally from behind. IMHO. YMMV. — Ron Nicholson   rhn AT nicholson DOT com   http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/ #include <canonical.disclaimer        // only my own opinions, etc.

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I run regularly on a TM at 1% and I run regularly outside. My sense is that outside is still harder. I can pretty easily do four 8-min. miles on the TM @ 1%. I can’t quite match that outside. I’m not sure why. Hills? Wind? Heat and humidity? Fear of being passed by women (GOD, I HATE that!)? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not sure why you’re so obsessed with "simulating flat surface outdoor running". If that’s the goal, why not just run outdoors ? It’s easy to think of lots of possible reasons.  Maybe he’s training for a race that’s flat, but on lives on the side of a steep hill? (I like treadmill running for the opposite reason.)  Or is training for a warm weather race, but lives where it snows half the year?  Or works in a metro area where some drivers think joggers are targets, if they see pedestrians at all?  Or in the countryside where the mountain lions think runners are slow moving chew toys?  Or wants to run on something slightly softer than concrete?  Maybe skin cancer runs in the family and his doctor told him to limit sun exposure?  etc. yada yada In any case, the year I trained mostly on treadmills, I alternated between 1% and 2% incline because there were a couple large fans blowing diagonally from behind. IMHO. YMMV.

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I run regularly on a TM at 1% and I run regularly outside. My sense is that outside is still harder. I can pretty easily do four 8-min. miles on the TM @ 1%. I can’t quite match that outside. I’m not sure why. Hills? Wind? Heat and humidity? Fear of being passed by women (GOD, I HATE that!)?

It’s worse in a triathlon, when you see women from an age group older than yours passing you and you know their wave started 15 minutes AFTER yours did. It’s a good thing I have a healthy perspective and know that I’m not supposed to be faster just because I’m a man. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night,  and party every day.  Then it was every other day. . . ."       -Homer J. Simpson

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well, you don’t have to push your leg back on the TM…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I run regularly on a TM at 1% and I run regularly outside. My sense is that outside is still harder. I can pretty easily do four 8-min. miles on the TM @ 1%. I can’t quite match that outside. I’m not sure why. Hills? Wind? Heat and humidity? Fear of being passed by women (GOD, I HATE that!)? It’s worse in a triathlon, when you see women from an age group older than yours passing you and you know their wave started 15 minutes AFTER yours did. It’s a good thing I have a healthy perspective and know that I’m not supposed to be faster just because I’m a man. –Harold Buck "I used to rock and roll all night,  and party every day.  Then it was every other day. . . ."       -Homer J. Simpson

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well, you don’t have to push your leg back on the TM…

Nonsense. Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

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It’s worse in a triathlon, when you see women from an age group older than yours passing you and you know their wave started 15 minutes AFTER yours did.

Beat down by a bunch of old ladies. How sad for you. 9-11 forget it, it’s over. Who cares? Nobody.

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I run regularly on a TM at 1% and I run regularly outside. My sense is that outside is still harder. I can pretty easily do four 8-min. miles on the TM @ 1%. I can’t quite match that outside.

Have you calibrated your treadmill? Andy Coggan

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