Talk Cancer

Question:

February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author.

Extroidinary article about the loss of self and sexual beingness and transformation we are so busy getting back to "normal" or just letting go of sex that this misses the matrix of feelings of loss and shame that we experience with a loss of sexuality as defined by society,I have been journaling on this,but gratefully without the authors journey to death and his eloquence.Jama’s tecjnical commentary lost me,the author did not his struggle is a place on a continuum we all face survivors or not, and learn from,thinks for turning me on to the article.

Response:

You’re right about the name. I substituted Everett’s "Dr. Hennenfent" reference for the original Dr. Harrod for some unknown reason. But I’d say Harrod "got over it" roughly with this undated passage well before his death: "All of this was not new to my wife. She had been saying many of these things for years, but I was not listening The loss of capacities, body parts, and what I thought of as my essential maleness was less important to her than the intimacy that accompanied other forms of reciprocal communication: touching, holding, sharing feelings, and being deeply present to one another. As a consequence of these of these insights, a surprising disgust arose in me and now I began to hate my previous sexual responses: how insensitive, narrow, and compulsive they had been. And, in a phrase that seemed to summarize all that I was feeling, how goatish!" I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who is Dr. Hennenfent? Did I read the wrong article. Are you exhorting Dr. Harrod to "GET OVER IT!"? If so, I think he did…on February 3, 2003, if not before.

Response:

Ahhhh…. good old Berky, Folie a Deux!  May he rest in peace!  He was a brave soul! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excellent. I couldn’t read it without thinking of Berky especially the part about the Rockies in the back yard. Bev I have just come across an article that I think every one of us in the PCa war should read and understand. In 2003, a dying PCa victim’s essay was published in the February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author. Brothers and sisters, this is or ought to be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man. I most earnestly commend it to your attention: http://www.lefprostate.org/jun2003_desire_01.html Regards, Steve J

Response:

I’m sorry, I must have missed something. Who is Dr. Hennenfent? Did I read the wrong article…I thought I clicked on the link in the original posting, going to the article "Lessons in Life: Reflections on ‘An essay by Desire’" by Stephen B. Strum, MD. Are you exhorting Dr. Harrod to "GET OVER IT!"? If so, I think he did…on February 3, 2003, if not before. — JerryW jweindel at flash dot net 2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62) 2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe 5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes 7/13/04 PSA <0.1 10/12/04 PSA <0.1 1/17/05 PSA ???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great article and useful response, but may I pay Devil’s Advocate in the interest of getting others through the misery Dr. Hennenfent has faced with his loss of sexuality? GET OVER IT! It’s gone. It’s toast. It’s limp. Its loss was expected, a willing choice to prolong life . . . maybe, a little, if we’re lucky. Certainly it’s important for people to know what to expect and make an informed choice based on that, but it’s also vital to let the cat slurp up the spilled milk, open a carton of ice cream, and make a sundae out of what’s left. Obsession with what once was but is no more is counterproductive and even harmful; we must all realize that our lives are changed, and change our reference points and options lists and objectives accordingly. If the good doctor quit spending his time wishing he were a horndog teenager again and put that time into restructuring his remaining life, he’d find some hot fudge and cherries and whipped cream, or at least some cashews, for his ice cream. Would you rather spend your last months/years eating ice cream, or spend that time envying kids who face dozens of STDs, radical Islam, meth and Ecstasy, being forcefully drugged by their school systems because they’re BORED and thus fidgtey in class, bible thumpers or socialism if either political extremity gets into power, the freedoms the ACLU is stripping from good people and giving to miscreants and slackers, diminishing moral and work ethics, yada yada yada. We’ve lived in a pretty good segment of the world’s evolvement, and we’re gonna die from some freaking thing or another within a decade or three anyway. (This is aimed at the people here who are retirement age, not the 40-somethings here who have been REALLY screwed by Mother Nature). It’s not our job, nor is it in our best interests, to live in the rear view mirror. Our lives aren’t behind us; they’re in front of us. It’s up to us to clear our windshields, choose from the narrowed road map we’ve been dealt, and choose the best path remaining. I.P.

Response:

Great article and useful response, but may I pay Devil’s Advocate in the interest of getting others through the misery Dr. Hennenfent has faced with his loss of sexuality? GET OVER IT!

The single most important thing in the article (for me) was the patient’s discussion of his loss of his sexuality and how it had affected him.  And now you want to NEGATE that part of the essay with *Get over it*??  Not for me!  Yeah… we have to live with what’s left.  Perhaps that was an easy thing for you to do, IP…. but it has not been for me…. It’s getting better, but it’s still tough, and I don’t apologize to you or anyone else for the way I feel about that or the fact that it may be taking me more time than you think necessary to put a smile back on my face. The essay also talks about the fact that men don’t connect with each other and talk about emotions.  Allow me to play Devil’s Advocate, too, if you please… sometimes I think those who say *Get Over It* are just using that as a way to avoid talking about it. There are many men who are out there who have just gone through surgery or some other treatment and who are struggling with the aftermath…. There are also many who have just been diagnosed.  I’m sure there must be many who lurk here and never post.  For those men out there, I say "It’s tougher for some of us than for others.  If you don’t fall into the *Just Get Over It* category, please don’t think you are alone.  I have come across many men who grapple with the loss of their gender identity.  It doesn’t make you weak…. or less of a MAN."  Human beings hurt… and this one is a tough one for many of us to deal with. It was a great essay.  In the end, the patient saw past his loss ….. and seemed to be at peace.  But the fact that he did struggle… and that he was able to SHARE that struggle…  for the benefit of others who may be going through similar circumstances… was a remarkable thing for him to do, IMO. Take care! MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s gone. It’s toast. It’s limp. Its loss was expected, a willing choice to prolong life . . . maybe, a little, if we’re lucky. Certainly it’s important for people to know what to expect and make an informed choice based on that, but it’s also vital to let the cat slurp up the spilled milk, open a carton of ice cream, and make a sundae out of what’s left. Obsession with what once was but is no more is counterproductive and even harmful; we must all realize that our lives are changed, and change our reference points and options lists and objectives accordingly. If the good doctor quit spending his time wishing he were a horndog teenager again and put that time into restructuring his remaining life, he’d find some hot fudge and cherries and whipped cream, or at least some cashews, for his ice cream. Would you rather spend your last months/years eating ice cream, or spend that time envying kids who face dozens of STDs, radical Islam, meth and Ecstasy, being forcefully drugged by their school systems because they’re BORED and thus fidgtey in class, bible thumpers or socialism if either political extremity gets into power, the freedoms the ACLU is stripping from good people and giving to miscreants and slackers, diminishing moral and work ethics, yada yada yada. We’ve lived in a pretty good segment of the world’s evolvement, and we’re gonna die from some freaking thing or another within a decade or three anyway. (This is aimed at the people here who are retirement age, not the 40-somethings here who have been REALLY screwed by Mother Nature). It’s not our job, nor is it in our best interests, to live in the rear view mirror. Our lives aren’t behind us; they’re in front of us. It’s up to us to clear our windshields, choose from the narrowed road map we’ve been dealt, and choose the best path remaining. I.P.

Response:

Great article and useful response, but may I pay Devil’s Advocate in the interest of getting others through the misery Dr. Hennenfent has faced with his loss of sexuality? GET OVER IT! It’s gone. It’s toast. It’s limp. Its loss was expected, a willing choice to prolong life . . . maybe, a little, if we’re lucky. Certainly it’s important for people to know what to expect and make an informed choice based on that, but it’s also vital to let the cat slurp up the spilled milk, open a carton of ice cream, and make a sundae out of what’s left. Obsession with what once was but is no more is counterproductive and even harmful; we must all realize that our lives are changed, and change our reference points and options lists and objectives accordingly. If the good doctor quit spending his time wishing he were a horndog teenager again and put that time into restructuring his remaining life, he’d find some hot fudge and cherries and whipped cream, or at least some cashews, for his ice cream. Would you rather spend your last months/years eating ice cream, or spend that time envying kids who face dozens of STDs, radical Islam, meth and Ecstasy, being forcefully drugged by their school systems because they’re BORED and thus fidgtey in class, bible thumpers or socialism if either political extremity gets into power, the freedoms the ACLU is stripping from good people and giving to miscreants and slackers, diminishing moral and work ethics, yada yada yada. We’ve lived in a pretty good segment of the world’s evolvement, and we’re gonna die from some freaking thing or another within a decade or three anyway. (This is aimed at the people here who are retirement age, not the 40-somethings here who have been REALLY screwed by Mother Nature). It’s not our job, nor is it in our best interests, to live in the rear view mirror. Our lives aren’t behind us; they’re in front of us. It’s up to us to clear our windshields, choose from the narrowed road map we’ve been dealt, and choose the best path remaining. I.P.

Response:

Excellent. I couldn’t read it without thinking of Berky especially the part about the Rockies in the back yard. Bev

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just come across an article that I think every one of us in the PCa war should read and understand. In 2003, a dying PCa victim’s essay was published in the February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author. Brothers and sisters, this is or ought to be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man. I most earnestly commend it to your attention: http://www.lefprostate.org/jun2003_desire_01.html Regards, Steve J

Response:

What a great and powerful article.  Everyone who comes to this NG should read this.  I’m copying it right now to take to our local USTOO group next meeting Tony in Tucson PSA 1.4 to 4.1 BX 4-03 HGPIN BX 12-16-03, Gleason (3+3=6) 58th birthday RRP 3-8-04 post Rp path Gleason (2+3=5), neg: lymph nodes, capsular invasion, perineural invasion, seminal vesical invaison,margins post RP PSA 0.01

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have just come across an article that I think every one of us in the PCa war should read and understand. In 2003, a dying PCa victim’s essay was published in the February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author. Brothers and sisters, this is or ought to be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man. I most earnestly commend it to your attention: http://www.lefprostate.org/jun2003_desire_01.html Regards, Steve J

Response:

Yes, this article sure is a lesson in life and should be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man as you have said. Here we have a guy who was mutilated beyond belief by his urologist and all for nothing!!!  He underwent removal of his prostate and testicles and the cancer spread anyway! This just goes to show you that the RP never benefits anyone except the bank account of the urologist and the hospital.  Dr. Hennenfent has said that surgery appears to work if you don’t need it and doesn’t work if you do need it and this article is an excellent example.  I would also like to further comment that there was some evidence in the article of a possibility of a suspected infection since it seems the PSA was monitored for some years back but yet an infection wasn’t found.  I can only speculate on that since it’s not too clear in the article but from prior experiences from what I’ve seen I suspect there was an infection and as typical the urologist gave a test that was not sensitive enough to pick it and so it smoldered over the years to where this man’s condition progressed to where it was.  I suggest to everyone to read this article and learn from it and don’t let the same thing happen to you by getting yourself educated by reading Dr. Hennenfent’s new book. Regards, Everett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just come across an article that I think every one of us in the PCa war should read and understand. In 2003, a dying PCa victim’s essay was published in the February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author. Brothers and sisters, this is or ought to be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man. I most earnestly commend it to your attention: http://www.lefprostate.org/jun2003_desire_01.html Regards, Steve J

Response:

I have just come across an article that I think every one of us in the PCa war should read and understand. In 2003, a dying PCa victim’s essay was published in the February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author. Brothers and sisters, this is or ought to be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man. I most earnestly commend it to your attention: http://www.lefprostate.org/jun2003_desire_01.html Regards, Steve J

Response:

Thanks for sharing this, Stephen.  It was, indeed, a wonderful read!! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have just come across an article that I think every one of us in the PCa war should read and understand. In 2003, a dying PCa victim’s essay was published in the February 2003 issue of JAMA. Shortly thereafter, Stephen B. Strum MD, medical oncologist, scientist, and co-author of _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_, wrote this essay about the article and its author. Brothers and sisters, this is or ought to be required reading for every newly-diagnosed man. I most earnestly commend it to your attention: http://www.lefprostate.org/jun2003_desire_01.html Regards, Steve J

Response: