Talk Cancer » Prognosis Cancer

Herceptin News Report

admin — Tue, 26 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Tonight on the local and national news they reported about how Herceptin was helping the survival rate of those with this certain type cancer. Does anyone know why doctors have not given the drug to others who are Hert and ER+? I was never offered the drug or the opportunity to even be in the clinical trials. Are there certain criteria they look for in bc patients before they give them this drug? I am already on Arimidex and wonder if they do not allow one to take both drugs. My doctors seem to prefer not to discuss any details of the bc with me. I only found out I was Hert and ER+ at my last visit with the radiation doctor. I was diagnosed in 8/03 have already undergone a lumpectomy, Chemo, Radiation and now on the Arimidex. Should I be on the Herceptin from what you all know about this drug? I am sorry to bother you with my concerns but I have no one else to give me answers. Will you please share any information you can with me so that I can ask my Oncologist the right questions when I see him in June? Thank you so much for any help you can give me. Bea

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tonight on the local and national news they reported about how Herceptin was helping the survival rate of those with this certain type cancer. Does anyone know why doctors have not given the drug to others who are Hert and ER+? I was never offered the drug or the opportunity to even be in the clinical trials. Are there certain criteria they look for in bc patients before they give them this drug? I am already on Arimidex and wonder if they do not allow one to take both drugs. My doctors seem to prefer not to discuss any details of the bc with me. I only found out I was Hert and ER+ at my last visit with the radiation doctor. I was diagnosed in 8/03 have already undergone a lumpectomy, Chemo, Radiation and now on the Arimidex. Should I be on the Herceptin from what you all know about this drug? I am sorry to bother you with my concerns but I have no one else to give me answers. Will you please share any information you can with me so that I can ask my Oncologist the right questions when I see him in June? Thank you so much for any help you can give me. Bea

Herceptin is a "dangerous" drug, in that is has a significant risk of severe side effects (in particular congestive heart failure) and at the moment outside of some clinical trials, is only given to stage IV patients, who have relatively little to lose. I have not heard of any trials that are recruiting at the moment. There is no particular problem with combining it with Arimidex. It is also quite expensive, and to justify its use you have to be stage IV, HER2+, and likely to benefit from it in terms of prognosis, e.g. not already at death’s door or suffering form other major complications. Even then a significant proportion of patients who receive it do not see any benefit, but for those who respond it can be dramatic. Tim Jackson

Response:

Tonight on the local and national news they reported about how Herceptin was helping the survival rate of those with this certain type cancer.

Talk to your oncologist. If you are suitable both as to the type of cancer and the strength of your heart you should push for this because the trial results are so spectacular My wife had a year of Herceptin as adjuvant chemo under a Mayo Clinic trial. They monitored her heart throughout and at one point the ejection rate dropped so much that they stopped the drug for four weeks, but her heart bounced right back and she completed the course. Needless to say we’re thrilled with the trial results!

Response:

It’s big news here (US) that they’ve stopped a trial early, because of the dramatic increase in disease-free survival in the chemo+herceptin arm, in order to add herceptin for the control group. A few points I’ve gathered only from the news reports (dangerous source!): – Of course, this applies only to the Her+ group, which is only about 30% of BC cases – The trial was testing a combination of standard chemo plus Herceptin (one doctor interviewed described it as a "one-two punch") against standard chemo alone – The side effect rates (possibly gleaned from other longer-term studies than this one; not clear) was much lower than the DFS improvement, i.e., cost/benefit was strongly positive. – Overall survival data isn’t yet available, and presumably won’t be coming from this study given the treatment change being made. Speaking to Bea’s case specifically: I don’t know whether she would’ve been eligible for the trial when she had chemo (don’t know when the trial started). The terms of the trial, though, appear not to apply to cases where one has already been treated with chemo in the past. The success seems to have involved using both agents in some kind of combined regimen, not a sequential process with a time gap, or an evaluation of Herceptin alone. One of the things about being a long(er) term BC survivor, is that as treatments improve, there are things we just miss out on, that could’ve helped us if they’d been known when we were first treated. It’s scary, but we usually can’t turn back the clock & benefit from the new info. Asking the oncologist can’t hurt, though. Ann T.

Response:

Anger and Weakness

admin — Sun, 07 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are going to hell. We must reach as many as possible..

If your God really wants to reach me, why does he only send blithering idiots to speak for him? Seriously, do you really think your combination of ignorance, arrogance, and bigotry is going to convert anyone? If there is a God, he’s weeping at the thought that you’re representing him. Shame on you.

Response:

There remains very little time. Suck it up and get moving. Millions are going to hell. We must reach as many as possible.. If your God really wants to reach me, why does he only send blithering idiots to speak for him?

Just a tangental thought. One of my favourite movie lines concerning religion "Satan’s greatest trick was convincing people he does not exist." And what better way to convince people that God does not exist could Satan do than to send such speakers out claiming to be from God? Seriously, do you really think your combination of ignorance, arrogance, and bigotry is going to convert anyone? If there is a God, he’s weeping at the thought that you’re representing him. Shame on you.

As I have mentioned before, I have my belief system. When I note that a messages is crossposted to alt.atheism I try to refrain from saying that much about it. It is just a matter of being polite. ANothing I am going to say is going to convince anyone in said ng BI am assuming that a large number of people in said ng actually do have other things to do with their lives so why waste their time? C If one is polite then others are more prone to be polite..which opens the way to dialog? And I have known atheists who, with a shade of irony, acted much closer to the concept of the Christian ideal than many Christians. DThe last I checked I was an Irish-Seneca Canadian and not a judgemental Deity. So I may be curious about why people do things but in the end it is more important to me as to what they do. dnp bardi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him? He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don’t know his Word. God would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his adoring follower for life. He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something like this, He is spirit.

First of all, "reval himself" does not necessarily mean showing his face. He’s supposedly appeared as a burning bush, a booming, thundering cloud, and a burrito in Mexico. In all seriousness, he could simply contact the OP in a way that is undisputable. But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs? If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart (the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to Him, don’t compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful, remember to who you are talking to.

So, let me get this straight. In order to be given "proof" that God exists, we must first agree that God exists? -n

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him? He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don’t know his Word. God would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his adoring follower for life. He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something like this, He is spirit. But isn’t the Christian version of God supposed to have magic powers? I am sure he could find some way to alter the fact that the evidence for his existence is exactly the same as anything else that doesn’t exist. There is no evidence that any gods exist outside the imaginations of those who feel the need for believing such a things. But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs? If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart (the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to Him, don’t compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful, remember to who you are talking to. If you don’t want to do that, OK, no problem, but then don’t say that He doesn’t answer. Keep these alternatives in mind the next time you have been fooled into believing some sort of god is answering your prayers.

I have this terribly small,insignificant but still nagging problem. Let us assume for a moment that God exists. Humour me and accept it just for the sake of argument. In that case the next logical question is ..why do we exist? Is it just to worship God? Quite frankly, that does not sound very God-like to me. And He..or She..there really is no deity pronoun.. has given us free will. And yet people are constantly asking God to take that gift back. Confuses me it does. dnp bardi

Response:

Why does god need short fat control freaks to do his work for him? He stated that the believers are the ones to preach to the ones that don’t know his Word. God would only have to reveal himself to me once, and I would be his adoring follower for life. He is not going to show his face to you, if you are talking about something like this, He is spirit.

But isn’t the Christian version of God supposed to have magic powers? I am sure he could find some way to alter the fact that the evidence for his existence is exactly the same as anything else that doesn’t exist. There is no evidence that any gods exist outside the imaginations of those who feel the need for believing such a things. But all of my prayers have gone unanswered. So where is your supporting proof for all of this pie in the sky bs? If you really are interested in knowing Him, and you pray from your heart (the profound part of your mind, its center), your prayers wont be unanswered, I assure you that. You just need to be humble when you pray to Him, don’t compel Him to do something or so, on the contrary, be respectful, remember to who you are talking to. If you don’t want to do that, OK, no problem, but then don’t say that He doesn’t answer.

Keep these alternatives in mind the next time you have been fooled into believing some sort of god is answering your prayers. Kookoo the Tree God The Editor Canton Daily Ledger 53 West Elm Street Canton, IL 61520 Sir/Madam: In a recent letter to the editor, Mahala Lafferty offered a personal experience she had recently had as evidence that her god answers prayers. After relating a close call her son had had while hauling a tractor on I-474, she concluded that a prayer she had said had saved him from dying in a horrible accident. She asked if anyone could now question that her god answers prayers. I regret to say that I do have to question that her prayers had anything to do with her son’s narrow escape, because she gave no indication that she had prayed to Kookoo the tree god, who lives in a small grove of trees behind my house. If her prayers were not directed to Kookoo, then she did not pray to the one and only true god, so there is no way that her prayers could have been heard. Kookoo will hear only the prayers of those who believe in him. I have kept Kookoo’s existence a secret for a long time, but Mrs. Lafferty’s letter has finally given me the courage to speak out and reveal him to the world. I, of course, have known of Kookoo’s existence for a long time. I have had a personal experience with Kookoo and have accepted him as my personal god, and nobody can convince me that I have not experienced what I know that I did experience. Many times I have prayed to Kookoo, and he has heard my prayers and answered them. I often talk to Kookoo, and he talks to me. How can I deny that I have walked and talked with Kookoo when I know that I have? Whenever I go on a trip, I ask for Kookoo’s protection, and he has always answered my prayers. Even though I have made several airline trips, some of them international flights, none of the airplanes I have flown on ever crashed. In view of such evidence as this, who can deny that Kookoo has not watched over me and answered my prayers? On a motor trip once, a front tire blew out on my car when I was traveling 70 miles per hour. (Yes, I was fudging a little bit on the speed limit.) The moment I realized what had happened, I uttered a quick prayer to Kookoo, and soon I had the car under control and was able to bring it to a safe stop on the shoulder. I shudder to think of what would have happened to me if Kookoo had not heard my prayer. To be honest, I must admit that Kookoo has not always given me the things I have prayed for, but I understand why. It wasn’t that Kookoo didn’t hear and answer my prayers; it was simply that Kookoo’s answer was no on those occasions. His ways are higher than my ways, so he understands what is best for me. I always respect the wisdom of his decisions even when I don’t get the things I pray for. I know that someday I will understand why Kookoo has often had to tell me no when I prayed. The good news for everyone is that Kookoo lives and abides everywhere that trees grow. If you have a tree in your yard, you can be assured that Kookoo is there. If you will believe in Kookoo and pray to him in your time of need, you too can know the great joy of a personal experience with Kookoo. I urge everyone to pray to Kookoo in his/her hour of need. There is no joy comparable to the joy of knowing Kookoo the tree god as your personal god. –Farrell Till

Response:

How do I say "vayanse a la puta madre que los re mil pari

How do you know that the Bible is true? Isn't it just a bunch of fables? – Part 6

admin — Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

What about people who have never heard of Christ?

Hey, idiot… why don’t you ever respond to the answers?? RS

Response:

Now it seems to me the only real weakness in this tree of evidence is #1, the diagnoses of the condition. Weakness in what respect?

People are misdiagnosed all the time. I have a friend, for example, who had a problem with his eye. His doctor sent him home and told him it was nothing. Within a few weeks they were carving out a good chunk of his cornea… But a misdiagnoses doesn’t only happen in one direction. What if the opposite had occurred? What if his doctor had concluded that he had a very serious bacterial infection, and scheduled him for treatment, when it was truly nothing?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not that anybody is the LEAST BIT interested in a serious discussion. Oh no, perish the thought! The people around here aren’t interested in anything more difficult than an ass-kicking contest with a one legged man. But…. "Miracle" cures, as defined by the Catholic church must meet the following criteria: 1) The illness/injury must be medically diagnosed. 2) The condition must be serious. 3) The prognosis irrevocable. "You will never walk again" works fine, but "You have a 98% chance of never walking again" doesn’t cut it. 4) The condition must be organic or result from an accident. (and I’m not sure exactly what these means myself) 5) There must be no treatment. An example here would be an inoperable cancer. 6) The cure must be "sudden and instantaneous," which strikes me as a bit redundant and repetitive. 7) Finally, the cure must be total & lasting, without any period of convalescence. Slowly regaining the use of your legs over a period of months doesn’t make the grade. Now it seems to me the only real weakness in this tree of evidence is #1, the diagnoses of the condition. If you’re the least bit confident in the diagnoses, the other conditions are actually pretty tough, not at all leaning in favor of establishing miracles. One could easily imagine scenarios where, even with treatment (disallowed under #5), a complete restoration of tissue or function could not be explained. Burn victims for example, nerve damage or any kind of scaring (internal or external). Anyhow, I put this forward for anyone to pick about or defend, be it however you please, and just out of curiousity concerning how others view these "Issues." I await the total lack of interest.

It’s a good subject for discussion. But the Catholics can have all the "conditions" they want and still not be taken seriously. All this does is cut down the number of events they feel justified in calling a miracle. Big deal. The real issue is the same … is a supernatural cause for something justified? I say it isn’t. Every religion has claims of such miracles, all postulated to be "well-documented" and "impossible" without the actions of their god(s). I don’t care how well-documented they are, you need to do a lot of leg work and research to determine any "miracle" could only happen through supernatural intervention. Any "spontaneous remission" simply means we don’t know what caused a cure. This doesn’t mean it’s supernatural, only that we don’t know the actual cause. As always, "Goddidit" becomes a holder, a marker that at bottom means "we’re ignorant and prefer to stay that way." — Nemo – EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations. Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!) BAAWA Knight! – One of those warm Southern Knights, y’all! Charter member, SMASH!! http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus Quotemeister since March 2002

Response:

Speaking of, how come such "miracle cures" have never included regeneration of a lost limb? Tell you what: show me that, or, say, a case of Down Syndrome being cured, and we’ll talk. Until then…

Response:

It is a big deal. You see, unlike in most every other example when it comes to religion, we have a clear definition. We have an understanding, an agreement. We’re all on the same page. When we say "miracle" we all mean the same thing, the exact same thing. So we do have a basis, a starting point. The real issue is the same … is a supernatural cause for something justified?

You make an excellent point. Every religion has claims of such miracles, all postulated to be "well-documented" and "impossible" without the actions of their god(s).

Yes. But this is different. These "Miracles" require the documentation of medical science BEFORE the miracle takes place. In other words, the illness/injury has to be documented (diagnosed) BEFORE the miracle takes place. This is *Very* different than just other religious claim. I don’t care how well-documented they are, you need to do a lot of leg work and research to determine any "miracle" could only happen through supernatural intervention.

I’d say you don’t go far enough. I would, but you catch yourself here: Any "spontaneous remission" simply means we don’t know what caused a cure.

Exactly. It’s unexplained.

Response:

Not that anybody is the LEAST BIT interested in a serious discussion. Oh no, perish the thought! The people around here aren’t interested in anything more difficult than an ass-kicking contest with a one legged man. But…. Speaking of, how come such "miracle cures" have never included regeneration of a lost limb? Tell you what: show me that, or, say, a case of Down Syndrome being cured, and we’ll talk. Until then…

That’s kind of lame, isn’t it? "If you don’t show me a different unexplained event I can safely ignore these others!" Personally, I’d love to see a catalog of the medical "Miracles" documented using the criteria mentioned here, the more recent the better. It might be interesting to look for a pattern…

Response:

What about people who have never heard of Christ?

I envy them because they don’t have to endure deluded idiots like yourself.

Response:

The real issue is the same … is a supernatural cause for something justified? I say it isn’t. Every religion has claims of such miracles, all postulated to be "well-documented" and "impossible" without the actions of their god(s). I don’t care how well-documented they are, you need to do a lot of leg work and research to determine any "miracle" could only happen through supernatural intervention. Any "spontaneous remission" simply means we don’t know what caused a cure. This doesn’t mean it’s supernatural, only that we don’t know the actual cause. As always, "Goddidit" becomes a holder, a marker that at bottom means "we’re ignorant and prefer to stay that way."

if you don’t know the actual cause then anyone may step up and claim it…….there is one factor that can be overlooked would be the placebo effect which can be gotten through prayer or a total belief in a particular drug etc….the key word would be absolute * belief* in a thing…..and since god cannot be proven or disproven and if one wished to believe god did it….who can offer an arguement? and why would one want to? agnositc #7674039896 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Nemo – EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations. Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!) BAAWA Knight! – One of those warm Southern Knights, y’all! Charter member, SMASH!! http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus Quotemeister since March 2002

Response:

Fuck off and take your book of crap with you. — Jez ‘Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often led to accept, without much questioning, someone else’s version of what that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be skeptical of someone else’s description of reality.’- Howard Zinn Skype callto://hellward

Response:

Not that anybody is the LEAST BIT interested in a serious discussion.

You can’t have a serious discussion with folk who believe in ancient myths and superstitions, as has been proven on alt.atheism time and time again ! Oh no, perish the thought! The people around here aren’t interested in anything more difficult than an ass-kicking contest with a one legged man. But…. "Miracle" cures, as defined by the Catholic church must meet the following criteria:

So ? Who gives a flying fuck what a bunch of men in weird dresses says ? — Jez ‘Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often led to accept, without much questioning, someone else’s version of what that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be skeptical of someone else’s description of reality.’- Howard Zinn Skype callto://hellward

Response:

What about people who have never heard of Christ? Hey, idiot… why don’t you ever respond to the answers??

Drive by shouting… — Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org "Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole" — Douglas Adams

Response:

Now it seems to me the only real weakness in this tree of evidence is #1,

Actually, this one is also weak: 3) The prognosis irrevocable. "You will never walk again" works fine, but "You have a 98% chance of never walking again" doesn’t cut it.

In that there are very few conditions in which there can be 100% certainty *at *all. I mean, if your leg is cut off, we can say it’s not going to grow *back. But a lot of what people style as "miracles" are remissions. Diseases do that. We don’t know why or how but it does happen. And to people of all faiths and even those who have no faith. Claiming a prognosis of "irrevacable" is questionable to my mind. Unless somebody can show me, oh, limbs regenerating. Now *that would be impressive… — Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org "Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole" — Douglas Adams

Response:

Not that anybody is the LEAST BIT interested in a serious discussion. Oh no, perish the thought! The people around here aren’t interested in anything more difficult than an ass-kicking contest with a one legged man. But…. Speaking of, how come such "miracle cures" have never included regeneration of a lost limb? Tell you what: show me that, or, say, a case of Down Syndrome being cured, and we’ll talk. Until then…

Yeah. Funny how it always involves diseases which can go into remission rather than things like limbs regrowing… — Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org "Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole" — Douglas Adams

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now it seems to me the only real weakness in this tree of evidence is #1, the diagnoses of the condition. Weakness in what respect? People are misdiagnosed all the time. I have a friend, for example, who had a problem with his eye. His doctor sent him home and told him it was nothing. Within a few weeks they were carving out a good chunk of his cornea… But a misdiagnoses doesn’t only happen in one direction. What if the opposite had occurred? What if his doctor had concluded that he had a very serious bacterial infection, and scheduled him for treatment, when it was truly nothing?

Which happens with disturbing frequency. People would also be very disturbed to discover the startlingly high rate of false positives (and negatives) of many common medical tests. Not to mention that the way statistics work, a test that’s "99%" accurate (which sounds really good huh?) can actually mean "accurate as flipping a coin." ("Drug testing" that’s so common these days is one that drives me up walls. The false positive rate is so high, you might as well be flipping a coin and firing people based on "heads or tails." This is true even though the accuracy of the tests is rated–on average–at 95%) It is actually *far more common than people realize that all the tests will indicate you probably have something but when they go *look to see, there’s nothing there. It’s just reality that medicine, while a science, still has a lot of ground to cover. There’s a lot of unexplored, unknown territory. (Such as that it’s quite common that we use medications which we know work but we don’t know *how they do. Anti-depressants are in that territory. We know they work and work well enough to use them, we just don’t know *why they work.) — Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org "Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole" — Douglas Adams

Response:

The Bible makes it clear

You misspelled "makes the unsupported claim" that through nature and conscience each person has some knowledge about God and sin for which he is accountable. (Read Romans 1:18-2:16.) Thus, everyone really knows, if he is honest, that God exists.

Or that "Paul" is just plain wrong. Have you considered that possibility?

Response:

What about people who have never heard of Christ?

Would that I were among them! — Denis Loubet http://www.io.com/~dloubet

Response:

The Bible makes it clear You misspelled "makes the unsupported claim" that through nature and conscience each person has some knowledge about God and sin for which he is accountable. (Read Romans 1:18-2:16.) Thus, everyone really knows, if he is honest, that God exists. Or that "Paul" is just plain wrong. Have you considered that possibility?

I would never have imagined anybody could be so stupid until I discovered American fundies.

Response:

Utter bullshit. That’s what annoys me about you fucking superstitious fools, you wipe your shit religion on everything whether we want it or not. Pious bastards! Right. If you were ‘honest’, ‘everyone REALLY knows’, ‘nature and conscience’,’knowledge’….. what double speak, ignorant garbage. If any of you stupid christians believe this load of maggot speak, see a shrink as soon as possible. Warlord Steve BAAWA www.sonic.net/~wooly

Response:

What about people who have never heard of Christ? The Bible makes it clear that through nature and conscience each person has some knowledge about God and sin for which he is accountable. (Read Romans 1:18-2:16.) Thus, everyone really knows, if he is honest, that God exists. Christianity teaches that one is condemned to hell for continually thumbing his nose at God. But the Bible also teaches that God is fair as well as just. Ultimately only God can judge as only He knows the individual’s heart. On the one hand, we are confident that God will not hold anyone accountable for any knowledge he did not receive. At the same time, since Christ is the only way to salvation, it is imperative for the church to take the gospel to those who have not heard it. To reject Jesus is a serious matter. It is tantamount to refusing God’s offer of reconcilation to sinful man. As R.C. Sproul points out (book, noted in the resource list), those who have heard and reject Christ face double jeopardy. Thus "religion" without Christ does not redeem people but may add to their ultimate guilt.

Response:

To reject Jesus is a serious matter.

Not really. I lost my belief in Jesus without even really noticing… — Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org "Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole" — Douglas Adams

Response:

In the case of a missing limb, I wouldn’t need a doctor to tell me the limb was missing. 2) The condition must be serious.

I would not require this. A missing limb would suffice for me. 3) The prognosis irrevocable.

This would require knowledge of future medical capabilities. 4) The condition must be organic or result from an accident. (and I’m not sure exactly what these means myself)

Mutant without arms vs. amputee, I imagine. 5) There must be no treatment. An example here would be an inoperable cancer.

So presumably, as medicine advances, we should see fewer miracles. 6) The cure must be "sudden and instantaneous," which strikes me as a bit redundant and repetitive.

And I would like to see the missing limb recovery caught on film in front of expert witnesses. 7) Finally, the cure must be total & lasting, without any period of convalescence. Slowly regaining the use of your legs over a period of months doesn’t make the grade. Now it seems to me the only real weakness in this tree of evidence is #1, the diagnoses of the condition.

Weakness in what respect? K.

Response:

Not that anybody is the LEAST BIT interested in a serious discussion. Oh no, perish the thought! The people around here aren’t interested in anything more difficult than an ass-kicking contest with a one legged man. But…. "Miracle" cures, as defined by the Catholic church must meet the following criteria: 1) The illness/injury must be medically diagnosed. 2) The condition must be serious. 3) The prognosis irrevocable. "You will never walk again" works fine, but "You have a 98% chance of never walking again" doesn’t cut it. 4) The condition must be organic or result from an accident. (and I’m not sure exactly what these means myself) 5) There must be no treatment. An example here would be an inoperable cancer. 6) The cure must be "sudden and instantaneous," which strikes me as a bit redundant and repetitive. 7) Finally, the cure must be total & lasting, without any period of convalescence. Slowly regaining the use of your legs over a period of months doesn’t make the grade. Now it seems to me the only real weakness in this tree of evidence is #1, the diagnoses of the condition. If you’re the least bit confident in the diagnoses, the other conditions are actually pretty tough, not at all leaning in favor of establishing miracles. One could easily imagine scenarios where, even with treatment (disallowed under #5), a complete restoration of tissue or function could not be explained. Burn victims for example, nerve damage or any kind of scaring (internal or external). Anyhow, I put this forward for anyone to pick about or defend, be it however you please, and just out of curiousity concerning how others view these "Issues." I await the total lack of interest.

Response:

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19.27) http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm — PETER If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To reject Jesus is a serious matter. Not really. I lost my belief in Jesus without even really noticing… — Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org "Being surprised at the fact that the universe is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being surprised at how well it fits its hole" — Douglas Adams

Response:

So your point here would be that even if a person has never heard the name "Jesus," let alone heard about your idiotic, blood-soaked, worthless mind-fuck, they’ll be sent to hell by this *GAWD!* that is the definition of "love"? I know you don’t care how revolting others consider your religion, but honestly… one would think you’d keep the more disgusting concepts under covers until after someone joined up. — Nemo – EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations. Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!) BAAWA Knight! – One of those warm Southern Knights, y’all! Charter member, SMASH!! http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus Quotemeister since March 2002

Response:

Sorry for delay

admin — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. KL Hope everything went well Kathy 1 Yes, everything went well…a bit more pain than I expected, and the tumor they removed ended up being bigger than they thought, but at least it was benign.

Tumor! Sheesh, I hope you’re feeling better. KL

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. KL Hope everything went well Kathy 1 Yes, everything went well…a bit more pain than I expected, and the tumor they removed ended up being bigger than they thought, but at least it was benign. KL

Congrats. Thank goodness! I know I’m stating the obvious but . . . cancer sucks, it really really sucks. Kathy 1 Ain’t that the truth. A family friend is dying from it, and it is so hard to see her suffer so much. I think if it were me I would have given up and let it take it’s course, but she is starting more chemo this coming week. I don’t know if I could do it. KL

I stand in awe of the challenges some people are capable of meeting. The husband of a long-time friend was diagnosed more than 10 years ago with an invasive, inoperable cancer of the brain. His prognosis was poor, at best. He underwent whatever treatment they could offer. When he could no longer drive himself to work, his co-workers organized a car pool. When he could no longer do his original job, his employer found him another one. When he could no longer do that, he resigned. Only now is he coming to the end of his road. One week ago, as his wife prepared to begin a medical leave for his final weeks, she had three strokes. By the time I spoke with her last Wednesday, her peripheral vision had cleared and she was anticipating her return home to her husband. She was as feisty as ever, ready to roll right over whatever gets in her/their way. I’m afraid I would have bailed on myself some time ago, in his circumstances. I haven’t a clue what I would have done in hers all these years. J.

Response:

Ain’t that the truth. A family friend is dying from it, and it is so hard to see her suffer so much. I think if it were me I would have given up and let it take it’s course, but she is starting more chemo this coming week. I don’t know if I could do it. KL

Response:

Woohoo! Excellent – Glad to hear it Be well. Robyn Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster #1557

Response:

Thank goodness! I know I’m stating the obvious but . . . cancer sucks, it really really sucks. Kathy 1

Response:

Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up.

Hope you feel better soon. GR

Response:

writes: Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. Hope you’re okay and that they used an anaesthetic of some sort! Helen

Heck yeah!! I was OUT completely. I insisted… KL

Response:

Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. KL Hope everything went well Kathy 1

Yes, everything went well…a bit more pain than I expected, and the tumor they removed ended up being bigger than they thought, but at least it was benign. KL

Response:

Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up.

Hope you’re O.K. Take care. Rh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – KL

Response:

Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. KL

Hope everything went well Kathy 1

Response:

Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up.

Hope you’re okay and that they used an anaesthetic of some sort! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – KL

Response:

Oooohhhhh, hope everything is OK. Kathy J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. KL

Response:

Sorry if some of my responses seem a bit dated. Had surgery on Monday and am still trying to catch up. KL

Response:

Purrs :(

admin — Fri, 30 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I hope your mum has as sympathetic a vet as we have who makes time to explain her options and gives her time to properly consider them before deciding what to do.. Whatever decision she makes, it will be the right one as far as I’m concerned. Continuing to send lots of sympathetic hugs and purrs. to you and your mum Love Sheenah

Thanks so much. I think we have a breather for now (see further update), but it may very well come to that. Karen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho. He has been yowling and she took him in. He had blood tests done in Sept. and his platelets were a bit high (I think, anyway slightly abnormal) but he also had a matted butt and they shaved him and gave him some antibiotics and he seemed better. But now there is something with his lymphocytes (I think that is it, mom is so upset it’s hard for her to remember stuff) they may have to do exploratory surgery but she is still so upset from Amigo’s death that they didn’t push it. I don’t know. It’s just definitely not looking good. Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs. I know she knows it’s unreasonable to feel like a jinx and yet I know she does. Her other cat Nermal is quite old and that’s always on the edge of her mind and young Petrus would miss Tycho something terrible. It’s all such a mell of hess. I feel awful. Karen

Many, many purrs and prayers for your mom and Tycho. We all hope everything works out for him… Roger

Response:

Purrs for your mom and for Tycho from us in Sweden. Elisabet and Hugo Katt Karen Chuplis skrev i meddelandet … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho. He has been yowling and she took him in. He had blood tests done in Sept. and his platelets were a bit high (I think, anyway slightly abnormal) but he also had a matted butt and they shaved him and gave him some antibiotics and he seemed better. But now there is something with his lymphocytes (I think that is it, mom is so upset it’s hard for her to remember stuff) they may have to do exploratory surgery but she is still so upset from Amigo’s death that they didn’t push it. I don’t know. It’s just definitely not looking good. Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs. I know she knows it’s unreasonable to feel like a jinx and yet I know she does. Her other cat Nermal is quite old and that’s always on the edge of her mind and young Petrus would miss Tycho something terrible. It’s all such a mell of hess. I feel awful. Karen

Response:

Dear Karen, I’m very sorry to hear that your Mum is again having such worry with her cats. The gang will send lots of purrs and I’ll hope and keep my fingers crossed that whatever is causing Tycho to feel unwell can be easily and successfully treated. I am also sending you a big hug. I think you need one just as much as your mum. Lots of love Sheenah

Response:

of course – purrs on their way for Tycho and your mom. Brenda

Response:

Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs.

We’re sending all the purrs we can muster for Tycho, and prayers and good wishes for you Mom. Sincerely hope everything will turn out well. Jeanne Jeanne Hajos spamguard:( u is i, and not is net) === "Anger improves nothing except the arch of a cat’s back." — Coleman Cox My SETI team: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_125874.html

Response:

{{{{Karen and Mom}}}} I’m so sorry to hear this Purrs going out for your mom, and for you, too. Ginger-lyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho. He has been yowling and she took him in. He had blood tests done in Sept. and his platelets were a bit high (I think, anyway slightly abnormal) but he also had a matted butt and they shaved him and gave him some antibiotics and he seemed better. But now there is something with his lymphocytes (I think that is it, mom is so upset it’s hard for her to remember stuff) they may have to do exploratory surgery but she is still so upset from Amigo’s death that they didn’t push it. I don’t know. It’s just definitely not looking good. Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs. I know she knows it’s unreasonable to feel like a jinx and yet I know she does. Her other cat Nermal is quite old and that’s always on the edge of her mind and young Petrus would miss Tycho something terrible. It’s all such a mell of hess. I feel awful. Karen

Response:

Purrs to everyone, Karen. We’re thinking of all of you! Margaret & Oliver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho. He has been yowling and she took him in. He had blood tests done in Sept. and his platelets were a bit high (I think, anyway slightly abnormal) but he also had a matted butt and they shaved him and gave him some antibiotics and he seemed better. But now there is something with his lymphocytes (I think that is it, mom is so upset it’s hard for her to remember stuff) they may have to do exploratory surgery but she is still so upset from Amigo’s death that they didn’t push it. I don’t know. It’s just definitely not looking good. Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs. I know she knows it’s unreasonable to feel like a jinx and yet I know she does. Her other cat Nermal is quite old and that’s always on the edge of her mind and young Petrus would miss Tycho something terrible. It’s all such a mell of hess. I feel awful. Karen

– Margaret Fine

Response:

Well, she is giving him antibiotics and he does seem more comfortable today. He did not meow all night like the past two nights. She is angry because she feels that getting his vaccinations made it worse (and I suppose it may have since it depresses the immune system). She is beside herself to know what to do, if she should have them do exploratory surgery. She thinks she should but she says she cannot handle the phone call and cries telling me about when they called her about Amigo and asked her what to do. Then I found out she feels bad that she had him cremated because she thinks he can’t go to Rainbow Bridge. I told her that does not matter at all, but I don’t know if she can get past her upbringing. She has so little help. My sister FORGOT to come over last night and help her give him the medicine. I mean for crying out loud the house is only a MILE from where she works. How frickin hard is it to remember to help your mother. I’m so disgusted with people sometimes. Life is just sucky sometimes. Karen

Response:

Lots of purrs and best wishes, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho.

Response:

Purrs for you, your mom, and Tycho. It sounds like you got an earful, but I think it means it helps her a lot to have you to listen to her frustrations and fears.

Response:

I called and talked to her vet. Mom felt they wanted to do exploratory surgery right away, like they did on Amigo and I think she just shut down. They are concerned about lymphoma, but the vet thinks an endoscope might be in order. The *only* thing in his labwork to indicate trouble is an elevated white cell count. It is high, but she is willing to see how antibiotics go, and possibly try prednisone. I think mom should take him in to have his levels checked when he is done with the antibiotic. I just hope that he continues to do better. He did not meow all night long, as he had been doing, and he was eating today. *sigh* An elevated white cell count *could* be an infection or reaction to inflamation somewhere, but I guess it is natural to worry about lymphoma. at least it is not quite as bad as it seemed, though, I don’t know if it is not as bad as it seems, if that makes any sense. At least I think mom felt better when I explained that the vet wanted to do an endoscope rather than leap directly to surgery. I just don’t know. I will just continue to pray. Karen

Response:

Dear Karen, It’s very good news that Tycho is feeling more comfortable. I will hope and keep my fingers crossed that he can be kept so. Re the possibility of an op, before your mum decides whether or not to agree to him having one, it may be helpful for her to try to find out whether it could lead to treatment that will either cure him or give him a better quality of life if it is not possible to cure him. Your mum’s situation brings back sad and painfu memories of what we faced eariler this year with Gemma. Her vet thought she had cancer and advised an op to confirm it. He exxpected this would tell him whether or not it was confined to one area and therefore whether or not it might be successfully treated. Given Gemma’s medical history, he thought this unlikely and therefore given her age, her general poor state of health, the poor prognosis if cancer was confirmed and the risks associated with surgery, we decided against an op. It was not an easy decision to make but for us, it was the right decision. We are convinced that it resulted in Gemma having a better quality of life for the remaining few weeks of her life than she would have had if she had had to use all her remaining strength to recover from major surgery. I hope your mum has as sympathetic a vet as we have who makes time to explain her options and gives her time to properly consider them before deciding what to do.. Whatever decision she makes, it will be the right one as far as I’m concerned. Continuing to send lots of sympathetic hugs and purrs. to you and your mum Love Sheenah

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, she is giving him antibiotics and he does seem more comfortable today. He did not meow all night like the past two nights. She is angry because she feels that getting his vaccinations made it worse (and I suppose it may have since it depresses the immune system). She is beside herself to know what to do, if she should have them do exploratory surgery. She thinks she should but she says she cannot handle the phone call and cries telling me about when they called her about Amigo and asked her what to do. Then I found out she feels bad that she had him cremated because she thinks he can’t go to Rainbow Bridge. I told her that does not matter at all, but I don’t know if she can get past her upbringing. She has so little help. My sister FORGOT to come over last night and help her give him the medicine. I mean for crying out loud the house is only a MILE from where she works. How frickin hard is it to remember to help your mother. I’m so disgusted with people sometimes. Life is just sucky sometimes. Purrs for you, your mom, and Tycho. It sounds like you got an earful, but I think it means it helps her a lot to have you to listen to her frustrations and fears. I called and talked to her vet. Mom felt they wanted to do exploratory surgery right away, like they did on Amigo and I think she just shut down. They are concerned about lymphoma, but the vet thinks an endoscope might be in order. The *only* thing in his labwork to indicate trouble is an elevated white cell count. It is high, but she is willing to see how antibiotics go, and possibly try prednisone. I think mom should take him in to have his levels checked when he is done with the antibiotic. I just hope that he continues to do better. He did not meow all night long, as he had been doing, and he was eating today. *sigh* An elevated white cell count *could* be an infection or reaction to inflamation somewhere, but I guess it is natural to worry about lymphoma. at least it is not quite as bad as it seemed, though, I don’t know if it is not as bad as it seems, if that makes any sense. At least I think mom felt better when I explained that the vet wanted to do an endoscope rather than leap directly to surgery. I just don’t know. I will just continue to pray. Karen

so will I, Karen. purrs, Brenda

Response:

Purrs and prayers for everybody in your Mom’s household, especially the furbabies. Jazz & his mama — Irulan from the stars we came, to the stars we return from now until the end of time

Response:

Karen, I’m sad to read this; please tell your mom we’re thinking of her and sending rumbly purrs to Tycho. Christine

Response:

It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho.

Definitely purrs and good wishes for your mom and Tycho. Please keep us informed about all of them. Pam S. and the NC nine

Response:

Purrs on the way! — Victor M. Martinez http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

Response:

It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho.

So sorry to hear this. Lots of purrs coming over for Tycho and his people. — Marina

Response:

Purrs on the way.. Please keep us posted on any updates about Tycho. fuga

Response:

It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho. He has been yowling and she took him in. He had blood tests done in Sept. and his platelets were a bit high (I think, anyway slightly abnormal) but he also had a matted butt and they shaved him and gave him some antibiotics and he seemed better. But now there is something with his lymphocytes (I think that is it, mom is so upset it’s hard for her to remember stuff) they may have to do exploratory surgery but she is still so upset from Amigo’s death that they didn’t push it. I don’t know. It’s just definitely not looking good. Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs. I know she knows it’s unreasonable to feel like a jinx and yet I know she does. Her other cat Nermal is quite old and that’s always on the edge of her mind and young Petrus would miss Tycho something terrible. It’s all such a mell of hess. I feel awful. Karen

Oh no! We are sending the strongest of purrs to Tycho and your mom. I hope everything turns out *much* better than expected. —— Krista

Response:

Purrs for Tycho to get better. If they’re not sure exactly what his history is, or how old he is, I guess it’s harder.

Response:

Sometimes it all seems to happen at once doesn’t it? Purrs for you and yours heading from this house. Jeanette

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t look good for my mom’s other cat Tycho. He has been yowling and she took him in. He had blood tests done in Sept. and his platelets were a bit high (I think, anyway slightly abnormal) but he also had a matted butt and they shaved him and gave him some antibiotics and he seemed better. But now there is something with his lymphocytes (I think that is it, mom is so upset it’s hard for her to remember stuff) they may have to do exploratory surgery but she is still so upset from Amigo’s death that they didn’t push it. I don’t know. It’s just definitely not looking good. Any purrs you can send my mom she desparately needs. I know she knows it’s unreasonable to feel like a jinx and yet I know she does. Her other cat Nermal is quite old and that’s always on the edge of her mind and young Petrus would miss Tycho something terrible. It’s all such a mell of hess. I feel awful. Karen

Purrs for your mom and Tycho coming from my gang. Bonnie even let out some weird sounding purrs when she saw Shadow and Shamrock so she can purr.. sending some your way. I’ll be sure to tell her about it during our sitting sessions… I feel so bad for your mom. :( — Cheryl

Response:

confused

admin — Sat, 24 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

As i have mentioned before My step dad has cnacer of the lung and liver I am confused though because he was on all this chemo and the cancer is getting bigger and bigger they have changed the chemo many times and he went from taking chemo for about four hours each time to a drug that only takes 10 minutes does this mean it wont be long? does it mean there is nothing else enlighten me to why they cut it down to 10 minutes…oh and in the last week he lost another 8 pounds can anyone help me? You can email me at

Response:

I’m assuming that when you say "changed the chemo" you mean that they have switched from one drug to another. The length of time it takes to infuse a particular chemo doesn’t reflect how "good" the chemo is. For example, 5FU, considered the "gold standard" chemo for colo-rectal cancer for years, can be given with a simple injection- takes just a couple of seconds. If they’re changing your step-dad’s chemos and the cancer is growing, this means that the chemo isn’t working, unfortunately. And typically doctors will try the chemo most likely to work first. I’m just guessing, but probably they switched from the 4 hour chemo to the 10 minute chemo because the 4 hour chemo wasn’t helping your step dad, or because the chemo was causing too many side effects. Do you know the names of the chemos he’s been given? Unfortunately, it sounds like your step dad will soon reach a point where no more treatment to extend his life is available. Have you talked at all to your step-dad’s doctors or nurses? They will understand the situation much better than we do. Has your dad stopped eating? Or is he vomiting? Depending on the reason your dad is losing weight, there may be ways to stop the weight loss. Again, I urge you to talk to your step-dad’s doctor, his nurses. Are other family members involved in his care? This situation can feel overwhelming and scary, I know, but these people are the best source of information about your step-dad’s prognosis. You’ve got to ask them the questions. Unfortunately, we can’t give you very accurate information. Hugs, Michele

Response:

Hello, Different drugs take different times to infuse. It doesn’t mean that they are less effective. My husband has multiple myeloma. He was given aredia at first which took over an hour. He is now on zomeda which takes 15 minutes. Both drugs help his bones to retain calcium and fill in the bone lesions he has from the cancer. Linda

Response:

stoopid friggin' doctors…

admin — Wed, 02 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I went to the emergency room yesterday for more cardiac rythm problems – I was dizzy and nauseated, and called the advice nurse to see if I could take a little more than the prescribed dosage on my beta blocker and she insisted I go to ER, where they gave me more of my regular prescribed meds. I asked this attending doc what I could do to help with the symptoms, and she told me to take up painting or needlework. I almost jumped off the bed and decked her. I am not willing to give up my life to this stupid problem. It is not life threatening, just uncomfortable. I need to find a doctor who will work with me to find a happy medium with meds, so I can manage the symptoms AND continue to lead an active life. Sometimes I hate doctors! determined

Response:

Don’t the people in the ER contact your personal physician before treatment? I know they do around here. The last time I had to visit the ER they got my doctor out of bed in the middle of the night before starting any treatment. When the kids were small and I had to visit the ER they always contacted their pediatrician.

Ya know – the last time I was in an er was about 7 yrs ago when my little sister busted her little toe open at the boat in the middle of the night. No calls then. I, myself, last time I was in the ER was when I was 15 yrs old – for alcohol poisoning. Off hand – I don’t know what the ER does in that respect. But I was with BF when we called his doc one time on a holiday and the doc met us up at the office to take care of him and told him that it was good he called his service and not go to ER.

Response:

It’s sometimes hard to find a good doctor. Look around for another specialist that will work with you. You shouldn’t have to put up with this all the time.

Response:

Yes, I’m going to go see my regular cardiologist. It just really bothered me that someone would even say something like "take up needlepoint" as an answer…

she’s a fucktard – what can I say. SHe must be of the philosophy of "you have a heart problem, you should roll over and die now"… If so – then Lance Armstrong would not have won Tour De France, how many times now?

Response:

Yes, I’m going to go see my regular cardiologist. It just really bothered me that someone would even say something like "take up needlepoint" as an answer…

Response:

Aside from the er visit. Did you call your regular cardiologist today for a followup? See – ER people don’t know your condition or your history. They can only go by what you tell them when you are in there. Case in point. BF has a rare problem with his eyes. It took him years, but he finally found a specialist that knows about the condition and the best way to treat it. His doctor has pretty much gotten it instilled in BF’s brain to never bother with the ER for his eyes. See, if BF were to go into the ER for his eye condition, ER would automatically start pumping him with steriods to help the symptoms. BUT- in this particilar problem with his eyes, steriods make the condition worse – not better. But, you can’t expect an ER doc or nurse who is not familiar with the condition to know this.

Response:

Do seek out other doctors opinions. After my Dad’s heart attack, his attending cardiologist had the attitude that my Dad should feel lucky to be alive and just accept things as they were – which weren’t great after a heart attack. Dad went to a different cardiologist who was much more helpful concerning meds, exercise, etc. Sometimes I think some doctors just don’t want to take the time necessary to deal with on going or long term problems. Keep your spirits up! -Joyce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to hear you are still having cardian rythim problems. I thought that mega-calcium (or was it phosperous?) dose you were taking had helped. I would suggest you seek another cardiologist’s opinion. This is no way to go through your life.

Response:

Sorry to hear you are still having cardian rythim problems. I thought that mega-calcium (or was it phosperous?) dose you were taking had helped. I would suggest you seek another cardiologist’s opinion. This is no way to go through your life.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I’m going to go see my regular cardiologist. It just really bothered me that someone would even say something like "take up needlepoint" as an answer… she’s a fucktard – what can I say. SHe must be of the philosophy of "you have a heart problem, you should roll over and die now"… If so – then Lance Armstrong would not have won Tour De France, how many times now? He’s won it four times. I knew he had cancer but never knew he had heart problems. I was refering to his cancer. He’s been known to say it himself – that had he taken the first prognosis on his cancer, he should be a total vegetable by now – one of those – "you have a condition, so you should roll over and die now"… To which he said – "No F-ing Way!" and fought back and look where he is now – still winning TDF after battleing cancer. Kinda the same thing (on a different level) for Det. She’s got a heart issue, but she is not willing to give up on life and roll over and die and become a total veg because she has this condition. She is bound and determined to fight this fight and be just as strong or stronger than she was before.

Right on, sister!

Response:

I was refering to his cancer. He’s been known to say it himself – that had he taken the first prognosis on his cancer, he should be a total vegetable by now – one of those – "you have a condition, so you should roll over and die now"… To which he said – "No F-ing Way!" and fought back and look where he is now – still winning TDF after battleing cancer. Kinda the same thing (on a different level) for Det. She’s got a heart issue, but she is not willing to give up on life and roll over and die and become a total veg because she has this condition. She is bound and determined to fight this fight and be just as strong or stronger than she was before.

Response:

I sympathise determined. Fortunately I’ve had very few health problems in my life so far, but there have been times when I’ve felt like crying with frustration when doctors refuse to listen properly or take into account the wider picture of my needs and issues. Sorry to hear you’re having symptoms again – I thought the potassium had done the trick? As for the doctor’s advice, I can imagine how angry and frustrated I’d be if I was told to take up painting or needlework – I can’t believe you were told this. I hope you can get a second opinion from another doctor. janice 233/178/133 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I went to the emergency room yesterday for more cardiac rythm problems – I was dizzy and nauseated, and called the advice nurse to see if I could take a little more than the prescribed dosage on my beta blocker and she insisted I go to ER, where they gave me more of my regular prescribed meds. I asked this attending doc what I could do to help with the symptoms, and she told me to take up painting or needlework. I almost jumped off the bed and decked her. I am not willing to give up my life to this stupid problem. It is not life threatening, just uncomfortable. I need to find a doctor who will work with me to find a happy medium with meds, so I can manage the symptoms AND continue to lead an active life. Sometimes I hate doctors! determined

Response:

He’s won it four times. I knew he had cancer but never knew he had heart problems.

Response:

He’s won it four times. I knew he had cancer but never knew he had heart problems.

he doesn’t! i think she was referring to his cancer. — read and post daily, it works! rosie "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." http://www.unitedforpeace.org http://peaceflags.org BLESS AND PROTECT OUR TROOPS! http://www.redcross.org/services/afes/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, I’m going to go see my regular cardiologist. It just really bothered me that someone would even say something like "take up needlepoint" as an answer… she’s a fucktard – what can I say. SHe must be of the philosophy of "you have a heart problem, you should roll over and die now"… If so – then Lance Armstrong would not have won Tour De France, how many times now? He’s won it four times. I knew he had cancer but never knew he had heart problems.

Response:

Sounds (sort of) like an experience I had. I was a distance runner a few years ago, and I started having knee problems (inflamation and soreness). I went to an orthopedic doctor, who gave me an X-ray. He then said "Listen to your body: if it hurts to run, then don’t run" He also said "don’t worry, it’s not arthritis" and then to help me with the swelling, he put me on Celebrex, which is an arthritis medicine. It did help somewhat, but I still have on and off knee problems and I still can’t run. Maybe my doctor is the same one who recommended an ECA stack to someone here (sorry, needed to get my cheapshot in) AL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to the emergency room yesterday for more cardiac rythm problems – I was dizzy and nauseated, and called the advice nurse to see if I could take a little more than the prescribed dosage on my beta blocker and she insisted I go to ER, where they gave me more of my regular prescribed meds. I asked this attending doc what I could do to help with the symptoms, and she told me to take up painting or needlework. I almost jumped off the bed and decked her. I am not willing to give up my life to this stupid problem. It is not life threatening, just uncomfortable. I need to find a doctor who will work with me to find a happy medium with meds, so I can manage the symptoms AND continue to lead an active life. Sometimes I hate doctors! determined

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to the emergency room yesterday for more cardiac rythm problems – I was dizzy and nauseated, and called the advice nurse to see if I could take a little more than the prescribed dosage on my beta blocker and she insisted I go to ER, where they gave me more of my regular prescribed meds. I asked this attending doc what I could do to help with the symptoms, and she told me to take up painting or needlework. I almost jumped off the bed and decked her. I am not willing to give up my life to this stupid problem. It is not life threatening, just uncomfortable. I need to find a doctor who will work with me to find a happy medium with meds, so I can manage the symptoms AND continue to lead an active life. Sometimes I hate doctors! determined

You make it sound like the doctors are trying to screw you over. This is your HEART we are talking about. They are trying to prevent you from dying of a heart attack. — SOMLAW HAS SPOKEN!!!

Response:

I’m pleased that you still made yourself go to the ER. I know you’re tempted to just self-medicate, and I know what a pain it is to fit an ER visit into your scheduled day. (Did you daughter go with you?!?) I agree that you should search out another cardiologist, but I would also suggest that you don’t give into temptation and just skip the ER room next time. Your daughter isn’t old enough yet to handle it if these go downhill. Keep playing it safe when you need help. Good luck figuring this whole condition out! Wendy

Response:

You make it sound like the doctors are trying to screw you over. This is your HEART we are talking about. They are trying to prevent you from dying of a heart attack.

Uh, I’m 26 yrs old and have a NON LIFE THREATENING heart condition. I’ve been seen by the same facility for 2 yrs, so they have all my records at their fingertips, even in the ER.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You make it sound like the doctors are trying to screw you over. This is your HEART we are talking about. They are trying to prevent you from dying of a heart attack. Uh, I’m 26 yrs old and have a NON LIFE THREATENING heart condition. I’ve been seen by the same facility for 2 yrs, so they have all my records at their fingertips, even in the ER. So the Cardiac Rythm Problems you have are not anyway a threat to your health? If they aren’t, then why are you in the ER to begin with?

Because they are uncomfortable, because the advice nurse asked me to come in, and because I’m looking for a doc to help me find a happy balance with the medication I take to suppress the rythms. It is a process of starting at a low dosage and slowly working up to a comfortable workable amount. Sastisfied yet? Don’t be a jackass.

Response:

You make it sound like the doctors are trying to screw you over. This is your HEART we are talking about. They are trying to prevent you from dying of a heart attack. Uh, I’m 26 yrs old and have a NON LIFE THREATENING heart condition. I’ve been seen by the same facility for 2 yrs, so they have all my records at their fingertips, even in the ER.

So the Cardiac Rythm Problems you have are not anyway a threat to your health? If they aren’t, then why are you in the ER to begin with? — SOMLAW HAS SPOKEN!!!

Response:

Sometimes I’ve been ready to choke my doc, too. As you know these days people with heart problems are rarely told to sit still. The more you know about your condition the better. Here’s a good resouce from the American Heart Assoc http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=10845 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to the emergency room yesterday for more cardiac rythm problems – I was dizzy and nauseated, and called the advice nurse to see if I could take a little more than the prescribed dosage on my beta blocker and she insisted I go to ER, where they gave me more of my regular prescribed meds. I asked this attending doc what I could do to help with the symptoms, and she told me to take up painting or needlework. I almost jumped off the bed and decked her. I am not willing to give up my life to this stupid problem. It is not life threatening, just uncomfortable. I need to find a doctor who will work with me to find a happy medium with meds, so I can manage the symptoms AND continue to lead an active life. Sometimes I hate doctors! determined

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You make it sound like the doctors are trying to screw you over. This is your HEART we are talking about. They are trying to prevent you from dying of a heart attack. Uh, I’m 26 yrs old and have a NON LIFE THREATENING heart condition. I’ve been seen by the same facility for 2 yrs, so they have all my records at their fingertips, even in the ER. So the Cardiac Rythm Problems you have are not anyway a threat to your health? If they aren’t, then why are you in the ER to begin with? Because they are uncomfortable, because the advice nurse asked me to come in, and because I’m looking for a doc to help me find a happy balance with the medication I take to suppress the rythms. It is a process of starting at a low dosage and slowly working up to a comfortable workable amount. Sastisfied yet? Don’t be a jackass.

Who is being a jackass? Why are you so defensive? Don’t be a bitch. — SOMLAW HAS SPOKEN!!!

Response:

Have you tried mineral supplements?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to the emergency room yesterday for more cardiac rythm problems – I was dizzy and nauseated, and called the advice nurse to see if I could take a little more than the prescribed dosage on my beta blocker and she insisted I go to ER, where they gave me more of my regular prescribed meds. I asked this attending doc what I could do to help with the symptoms, and she told me to take up painting or needlework. I almost jumped off the bed and decked her. I am not willing to give up my life to this stupid problem. It is not life threatening, just uncomfortable. I need to find a doctor who will work with me to find a happy medium with meds, so I can manage the symptoms AND continue to lead an active life. Sometimes I hate doctors! determined Aside from the er visit. Did you call your regular cardiologist today for a followup? See – ER people don’t know your condition or your history. They can only go by what you tell them when you are in there. Case in point. BF has a rare problem with his eyes. It took him years, but he finally found a specialist that knows about the condition and the best way to treat it. His doctor has pretty much gotten it instilled in BF’s brain to never bother with the ER for his eyes. See, if BF were to go into the ER for his eye condition, ER would automatically start pumping him with steriods to help the symptoms. BUT- in this particilar problem with his eyes, steriods make the condition worse – not better. But, you can’t expect an ER doc or nurse who is not familiar with the condition to know this.