Talk Cancer » Pancreatic Cancer » Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) vs. Lupus
Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) vs. Lupus
Question:
In article <40BC6553.4E0CA…@execulink.com>, J <jims…@anon.anon> wrote [snip seals] >I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it’s liver, you have to kill >it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe) >J
Got one… — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Response:
Ok you two , I’ll try and settle this by going fishing this aft and catch one and see who dies first:))) "Andy" <a…@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TfSBrKRmsHvAFwx2@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <40BC6553.4E0CA…@execulink.com>, J <jims…@anon.anon> > wrote > [snip seals] > >I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it’s liver, you have to kill > >it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe) > >J > Got one… > — > Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] > See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Response:
In article <c9g76f$c1…@gw.retro.com>, Lee Thompson-Herbert <l…@gw.retro.com> wrote [ > My idiot mother decided that she'd just give me loads of >vitamin A, and I not knowing any better at the time, took it. I'm lucky >I don't have permanent damage from it.
Isn't it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the vitamin overdose will kill you. -- Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Response:
Andy wrote: > Isn’t it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I > understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in > the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the > vitamin overdose will kill you.
It will kill the seal too. J
Response:
In article <40BC4E0A.478F5…@execulink.com>, J <jims…@anon.anon> wrote >Andy wrote: >> Isn’t it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I >> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in >> the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the >> vitamin overdose will kill you. >It will kill the seal too.
No, the seal naturally has this high level of Vitamin whatever in its liver. — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Response:
Andy wrote: > In article <40BC4E0A.478F5…@execulink.com>, J <jims…@anon.anon> > wrote > >Andy wrote: > >> Isn’t it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I > >> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in > >> the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the > >> vitamin overdose will kill you. > >It will kill the seal too. > No, the seal naturally has this high level of Vitamin whatever in its > liver.
I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it’s liver, you have to kill it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe) J
Response:
In article <d80yDPH7DxuAF…@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk>, Andy <a…@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[...] > Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken > together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, > taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to > 3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped > 67 people with DLE. Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter > periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail. The > amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first > trial are very high and should not be taken without the > supervision of a physician.
No kidding those doses are high. 10 to 15 _grams_?! And that dose of vitamin E is high enough that you’d have to watch out for bleeding problems. Especially if you’re already on drugs that inhibit platelet formation. [...] >I would interpret this as meaning that Pantothenic acid with Vitamin E, >and the herb Astragalus, are maybe worth a carefully controlled medical >trial in both discoid and systemic lupus. Or putting it differently, >watch this space but don’t try it at home.
Definitely don’t try that at home. Just the dose of vitamin E that they used in the study is high enough to be dangerous without supervision. That’s almost as scary as the study back when I was a teenager that suggested that megadosing on vitamin A would help DLE. It sort of did, because it encouraged the keratonous layer of the skin to grow more normally, but the risk of liver damage was…uh…high…which is exactly why anyone on accutane has to have regular blood tests done (it’s a much more potent synthetic form of vitamin A). My idiot mother decided that she’d just give me loads of vitamin A, and I not knowing any better at the time, took it. I’m lucky I don’t have permanent damage from it. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert l…@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Timothy Luders wrote: > On Sun, 30 May 2004 04:30:50 -0400, J wrote: > > This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but > > mega doses should be checked out first, IMO > > So FWIW and check with your doctors. > http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm > Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together > with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15 > grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per > day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE.51 Pantothenic acid > by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to > fail.52 The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first > trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a > physician.
Thanks Timothy, J
Response:
In article <xwjqbylzb9bg….@tandelshome.attbi.invalid>, Timothy Luders <tjlud…@myrealbox.com> wrote [] >http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm >Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together >with vitamin E, may help those with DLE.
Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven’t heard of DLE produced by anything other than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he inadvertently did. * which doesn’t mean it can’t happen 
— Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:53:41 +0100, Andy wrote: > In article <xwjqbylzb9bg….@tandelshome.attbi.invalid>, Timothy Luders > <tjlud…@myrealbox.com> wrote > [] >>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm >>Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together >>with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. > Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to > DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven’t heard of DLE produced by anything other > than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if > validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he > inadvertently did. > * which doesn’t mean it can’t happen
Actually it was referring to discoid lupus. But point well taken. Timothy
Response:
In article <k8y6hqdv61ay….@tandelshome.attbi.invalid>, Timothy Luders <tjlud…@myrealbox.com> wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:53:41 +0100, Andy wrote: >> In article <xwjqbylzb9bg….@tandelshome.attbi.invalid>, Timothy Luders >> <tjlud…@myrealbox.com> wrote >> [] >>>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm >>>Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together >>>with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. >> Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to >> DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven’t heard of DLE produced by anything other >> than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if >> validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he >> inadvertently did. >> * which doesn’t mean it can’t happen >Actually it was referring to discoid lupus. But point well taken.
H’mmm. The medical summary at the bottom of the original posting begins To date, the pathogenesis of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) remains unclear. By critically analyzing clinical facts and laboratory data, a hypothesis is proposed: drug-induced lupus erythematosus (DILE) is linked to a deficiency in Coenzyme A (CoA) that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid. and continues This hypothesis is used to explain the high incidence of SLE in females, the role of sex hormones in this disease and the mechanism underlying a flare. … The protean clinical presentation of SLE is attributed to co-existing deficiencies of dietary factors in addition to pantothenic acid. … Treatment is replacement therapy with doses of pantothenic acid that is hundreds of times higher than that of the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) and other vitamins. Using this method, 12 SLE females were studied with promising results. This I interpret as saying that the "pantothenic deficiency hypothesis" arose from studies of Drug-Induced Lupus and has been directly applied to Systemic lupus. That’s fair, as a hypothesis is a possible explanation of a set of observations capable of being tested. Your kingsoopers link says: Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) is an autoimmune illness that causes a characteristic rash accompanied by inflammation of connective tissue, particularly joints, throughout the body. In autoimmune diseases, the immune system attacks the body instead of protecting it. Kidney, lung, and vascular damage are potential problems resulting from SLE. … Discoid lupus erythematosus (DLE) is a milder form of lupus that affects the skin. Like SLE, it’s not known what causes DLE, though sun exposure may trigger the first outbreak. DLE is most common among women in their thirties. Then a table gives a 1-star rating to the supplements Pantothenic acid & Vitamin E and the herb Astragalus; defined below the box as "An herb is primarily supported by traditional use, or the herb or supplement has little scientific support and/or minimal health benefit." Lower down it says: Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE. Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail. The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a physician. and One Chinese preliminary trial also found that astragalus could decrease overactive immune function in people with systemic lupus erythematosus. However, much more research is needed to know whether astragalus is safe in lupus or any other autoimmune disease. I would interpret this as meaning that Pantothenic acid with Vitamin E, and the herb Astragalus, are maybe worth a carefully controlled medical trial in both discoid and systemic lupus. Or putting it differently, watch this space but don’t try it at home. — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!
Response:
galya wrote: > Dear all, > I don’t have lupus and don’t know much about the disorder. This post > is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that > taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE. > The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical > Hypotheses
is one thing..clinical trials are another. I have problems reading pdf files, but if someone could take a look here. It mentions such and lupus http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_pantothenicacid.pdf (I think I saw gastro upsets, but not sure) I also have a problem with someone who "doesn’t know much about Lupus" AND suggested coffee enemas to the son of someone who has advanced unresectable pancreatic cancer. This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but mega doses should be checked out first, IMO So FWIW and check with your doctors. If I have time later, I’ll try find more information. Hugs J
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 30 May 2004 04:30:50 -0400, J wrote: > galya wrote: >> Dear all, >> I don’t have lupus and don’t know much about the disorder. This post >> is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that >> taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE. >> The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical >> Hypotheses > is one thing..clinical trials are another. > I have problems reading pdf files, but if someone could take a look here. It mentions such and > lupus > http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_pantothenicacid.pdf (I think I saw gastro > upsets, but not sure) > I also have a problem with someone who "doesn’t know much about Lupus" AND suggested coffee > enemas to the son of someone who has advanced unresectable pancreatic cancer. > This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but > mega doses should be checked out first, IMO > So FWIW and check with your doctors. If I have time later, I’ll try find more information. > Hugs > J
http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE.51 Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail.52 The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a physician.
Response:
Dear all, I don’t have lupus and don’t know much about the disorder. This post is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE. The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical Hypotheses by a researcher who in 1995 published a similar paper regarding B5 vs. acne. That paper was posted on alt.skincare.acne newsgroup http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.skincare.acne&btnG=Search&meta=… around 2000 by a pharmacist who suffered from acne and was helped by taking B5. Ever since, many people have found it to be great for clearing their acne and the topic has been probably the most discussed topic on that newsgroup. Following is the Medline abstract of the paper. Please note that I see myself only as the messenger (someone in my family benefited tremendously from 2-4 grams of B5/daily for clearing acne – after I ‘found’ it discussed in the above newsgroup) and will not be able to contribute to any farther discussion wrt SLE;-). Regards, galya Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(6):922-4. Related Articles, Links Systemic lupus erythematosus: a combined deficiency disease. Leung LH. Department of General Surgery, Hong Kong Central Hospital, Hong Kong. To date, the pathogenesis of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) remains unclear. By critically analyzing clinical facts and laboratory data, a hypothesis is proposed: drug-induced lupus erythematosus (DILE) is linked to a deficiency in Coenzyme A (CoA) that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid. This hypothesis is used to explain the high incidence of SLE in females, the role of sex hormones in this disease and the mechanism underlying a flare. The actions of anti-malarials and steroids are also discussed. The protean clinical presentation of SLE is attributed to co-existing deficiencies of dietary factors in addition to pantothenic acid. Contributing factors to these deficiencies may include increased nutritional requirements resulting from gene mutations. Treatment is replacement therapy with doses of pantothenic acid that is hundreds of times higher than that of the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) and other vitamins. Using this method, 12 SLE females were studied with promising results. PMID: 15142649 [PubMed - in process]