Talk Cancer » Pancreatic Cancer

Medication Change Options…

admin — Thu, 11 May 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – personally I don’t care what my dose of dexedrine was 14 years ago, or at least not enough to go dig up that info, even if I did remember which pharmacy I went to then, which I don’t. But it is always lovely to hear from you. I _have_ been missing this group more than I realized…. and I hadn’t really _been_ here very long, either… I just finished finals on 5/5, and I am (drum roll please) O’Fishelly halfway done. A year from now I’ll have graduated and will be studying for boards.

A preceptor is a nurse you shadow. You work your clinical shifts when she works. I’ll probably go with oncology/solid tumors because I did hem/onc first and didn’t get enough med/surg skills to feel really comfortable with them. Wise nurses have counseled me to start out with med/surg to gain skills; solid tumors is essentially med/surg. I’ve developed an interest in oncology because I love caring for vulnerable patients and they love me. ‘Least you know what you like. ‘Gotta wonder ’bout those who still don’t at your stage in the game.

Well, I haven’t done peds or psych yet. Theoretically somebody built for one of those may still be wondering. Only half of us did OB and public health nursing last semester, so half of us haven’t done those yet. It seems like everybody wants to do peds or OB. OB bores the crap out of me, and peds nurses have to stick sharp things into sick children on a daily basis. ‘You gonna leave your online course to the last minute or you gonna do it in chunks?

I turned in my first assignment early, but I’m guessing I’ll turn into a slacker here pretty soon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

I would really love to make that happen, but unfortunately I don’t think the jobs are set up to make that possible, although I could volunteer for Hospice in that capacity, or visit just as a friend. That would rock though. ‘Nother thing you might wanna try is to go get out that old cassette tape recorder and buy a few cheap tapes. Give ‘em to your patients in the Hospice and in Tumors and let ‘em record some words to say to their families; things they would say on a tape, in private like that, that they wouldn’t be able to say face to face. Then give the tapes to the family while tellin’ ‘em where it came from… So when Grandpa finally lets go, the grandchildren have an oral record of him.

The Hospice chaplain does actually help patients do that very sort of thing. Sometimes they make a book, or tapes, or videotape. Whatever the patient feels best about. Sometimes families save things in a memory box that are special to them and help them remember, things with the scent of their loved one, etc. Things that bring back intense memories. Sometimes it ends up being a very odd collection to an outsider. Just a thot…..

An excellent thought. I would love to work in a healthcare system that made something like that possible. So that’s where I am. :) ~Patti Thanks for the update. So glad it went well this year for you!… Yes, really…. no sarcasm…;-) Cheers SP

I wasn’t being sarcastic really, just emphatic. They do tend to torcher us in nersking skewl. It riles us up a little. It’s always lovely to hear from you. ~Patti

Response:

??? precepted clinical ???? Vas ist das? A preceptor is a nurse you shadow. You work your clinical shifts when she works.

Great… ‘long as she don’t try to use you as a ‘gofer’ ‘Least you know what you like. ‘Gotta wonder ’bout those who still don’t at your stage in the game. OB bores the crap out of me, and peds nurses have to stick sharp things into sick children on a daily basis.

Kind-a curious if you’ll still feel the same after Psych and Pedo rotations… ‘You gonna leave your online course to the last minute or you gonna do it in chunks? I turned in my first assignment early, but I’m guessing I’ll turn into a slacker here pretty soon.

Maybe you could coast into the other assignments on the residual study inertia you had built up during the end of term blitz. I would really love to make [following oncology - hospice] happen, but unfortunately I don’t think the jobs are set up to make that possible, although I could volunteer for Hospice in that capacity, or visit just as a friend. That would rock though.

…. or propose that as a Masters’ thesis…. ‘Nother thing you might wanna try is to go get out that old cassette tape recorder … blah blah blah…. The Hospice chaplain does actually help patients do that very sort of thing. Sometimes they make a book, or tapes, or videotape. Just a thot….. An excellent thought. I would love to work in a healthcare system that made something like that possible.

again… maybe a part of an eventual Masters’ thesis….. But there’s no rush, Patti O’Hush. Cheers; gotta go put the rabbit to bed. SP — Take out the TRAASH to reply

Response:

No! … sarcasm. … emotional lability. … compassion thang, … *bad* research re: nursing compassion, poorly written, … memorize this bullshit … and throw gum at your … ability to …enhance your diagnostic skills or help you … emit steam from ears

OK… so maybe you wanna save this post for when the compassion doohickey has calmed down a bit… like in 2010…. … ‘Can lend you two [kids]: eight year old dancer who thinks she will be the next Britney, and an eleven year old who is fixin’ to be the next Tony Hawk, or die tryin’…. Sold! I’ll take both. For a weekend.

Weekend? They’d never wanna come back to IglooLand …unless you want to provide the very last straw and make me go farking apeshit on your Cajun-Canadien derriere. Oui, Madame….. comme vous voulez…. Merci.

Il n’y a pas de quoi, ma Ch

Back on the chain gang

admin — Sun, 07 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:11:34 -0600, "buster" wrote: >Glad your back on the road! Sounds like a nightmare. Good luck!

Thanks buster. I just hit a pothole. A nightmare is a diagnosis of an aggressive pancreatic cancer. Good luck to you as well. Don

Response:

I’ve resumed pegasys and knocked down shot #18 Friday evening. So I missed one shot of pegasys and about 2 weeks (so far) with the riba. (I had a severe not totally explained allergic reaction that landed me in the hospital for 3 days and had the doctors scratching their heads and taking pictures of my rash.) Well, maybe an hour after taking this shot I noticed a mild case of pruritis (itching) setting in and I let it go for a while before treating it so I know that the interferon was part of it. That’s common with alfa interferon 2a. No rash has kicked in yet but I’m on the oral corticosteroid prednisone (40mg) clearing up the last remnants of the fun from last time. I got this cream from the doc called Absorbase that has worked wonders on my dry skin. It’s great. I also have a drug called Hydroxyzine HCL that has pretty much taken care of the minor itching caused by the interferon 2a. It’s working well so far but needs a recharge every 4 or 5 hours. I now think that possibly what got me in trouble before was I had itching and rash caused by interferon and possibly riba as well and then compounded that by having an allergic reaction to ibuprofen which gave me hives and swelled my face up. These symptoms are documented and not uncommon. I’m going to talk to my doc next week about resuming the riba. I’m feeling pretty damn good right now and want to give tx my best shot. In fact I’m going out for a nice long walk in just a few. I’ve seen some other 24 weekers (I’m a 2) not doing well lately and I want some insurance. But I want to get off this fucking prednisone. It caused my blood pressure to spike a little over normal and I think caused my white blood cells to bounce down to 2.0 from the already low tx levels while I was in the hospital. That’s too low isn’t it? I had a qualitative test done Friday also to make sure I haven’t already relapsed and had other labs drawn as well. My last hemoglobin was 9.7 (10/27) not good but I’m doing fine. I’ll find out more next week when I talk to the docs and check my Friday labs. I want to procede cautiously or am I already being reckless? I want my SVR. We’ll get this thing worked out. Don

Response:

Glad your back on the road! Sounds like a nightmare. Good luck! "Don" wrote in message

news:sapso0pmbmc1l1gd53sin0nmfdkqbe81mk@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve resumed pegasys and knocked down shot #18 Friday evening. So I > missed one shot of pegasys and about 2 weeks (so far) with the riba. > (I had a severe not totally explained allergic reaction that landed me > in the hospital for 3 days and had the doctors scratching their heads > and taking pictures of my rash.) Well, maybe an hour after taking > this shot I noticed a mild case of pruritis (itching) setting in and I > let it go for a while before treating it so I know that the interferon > was part of it. That’s common with alfa interferon 2a. No rash has > kicked in yet but I’m on the oral corticosteroid prednisone (40mg) > clearing up the last remnants of the fun from last time. I got this > cream from the doc called Absorbase that has worked wonders on my dry > skin. It’s great. I also have a drug called Hydroxyzine HCL that has > pretty much taken care of the minor itching caused by the interferon > 2a. It’s working well so far but needs a recharge every 4 or 5 hours. > I now think that possibly what got me in trouble before was I had > itching and rash caused by interferon and possibly riba as well and > then compounded that by having an allergic reaction to ibuprofen which > gave me hives and swelled my face up. These symptoms are documented > and not uncommon. I’m going to talk to my doc next week about > resuming the riba. I’m feeling pretty damn good right now and want to > give tx my best shot. In fact I’m going out for a nice long walk in > just a few. I’ve seen some other 24 weekers (I’m a 2) not doing well > lately and I want some insurance. But I want to get off this fucking > prednisone. It caused my blood pressure to spike a little over normal > and I think caused my white blood cells to bounce down to 2.0 from the > already low tx levels while I was in the hospital. That’s too low > isn’t it? I had a qualitative test done Friday also to make sure I > haven’t already relapsed and had other labs drawn as well. My last > hemoglobin was 9.7 (10/27) not good but I’m doing fine. I’ll find > out more next week when I talk to the docs and check my Friday labs. > I want to procede cautiously or am I already being reckless? I want > my SVR. We’ll get this thing worked out. > Don

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:18:38 -0600, Don wrote: >I’ve resumed pegasys and knocked down shot #18 Friday evening. So I >missed one shot of pegasys and about 2 weeks (so far) with the riba. >(I had a severe not totally explained allergic reaction that landed me >in the hospital for 3 days and had the doctors scratching their heads >and taking pictures of my rash.) Well, maybe an hour after taking >this shot I noticed a mild case of pruritis (itching) setting in and I >let it go for a while before treating it so I know that the interferon >was part of it. That’s common with alfa interferon 2a. No rash has >kicked in yet but I’m on the oral corticosteroid prednisone (40mg) >clearing up the last remnants of the fun from last time. I got this >cream from the doc called Absorbase that has worked wonders on my dry >skin. It’s great. I also have a drug called Hydroxyzine HCL that has >pretty much taken care of the minor itching caused by the interferon >2a. It’s working well so far but needs a recharge every 4 or 5 hours. >I now think that possibly what got me in trouble before was I had >itching and rash caused by interferon and possibly riba as well and >then compounded that by having an allergic reaction to ibuprofen which >gave me hives and swelled my face up. These symptoms are documented >and not uncommon. I’m going to talk to my doc next week about >resuming the riba. I’m feeling pretty damn good right now and want to >give tx my best shot. In fact I’m going out for a nice long walk in >just a few. I’ve seen some other 24 weekers (I’m a 2) not doing well >lately and I want some insurance. But I want to get off this fucking >prednisone. It caused my blood pressure to spike a little over normal

I mean blood sugar, not blood pressure. Prednisone screws with your blood sugar among other things. Nasty stuff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->and I think caused my white blood cells to bounce down to 2.0 from the >already low tx levels while I was in the hospital. That’s too low >isn’t it? I had a qualitative test done Friday also to make sure I >haven’t already relapsed and had other labs drawn as well. My last >hemoglobin was 9.7 (10/27) not good but I’m doing fine. I’ll find >out more next week when I talk to the docs and check my Friday labs. >I want to procede cautiously or am I already being reckless? I want >my SVR. We’ll get this thing worked out. >Don

Response:

Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) vs. Lupus

admin — Sun, 30 May 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

In article <40BC6553.4E0CA…@execulink.com>, J wrote [snip seals] >I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it’s liver, you have to kill >it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe) >J

Got one… — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

Ok you two , I’ll try and settle this by going fishing this aft and catch one and see who dies first:))) "Andy" wrote in message

news:TfSBrKRmsHvAFwx2@kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <40BC6553.4E0CA…@execulink.com>, J > wrote > [snip seals] > >I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it’s liver, you have to kill > >it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe) > >J > Got one… > — > Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] > See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

In article , Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote [ > My idiot mother decided that she'd just give me loads of >vitamin A, and I not knowing any better at the time, took it. I'm lucky >I don't have permanent damage from it.

Isn't it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the vitamin overdose will kill you. -- Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

Andy wrote: > Isn’t it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I > understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in > the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the > vitamin overdose will kill you.

It will kill the seal too. J

Response:

In article <40BC4E0A.478F5…@execulink.com>, J wrote >Andy wrote: >> Isn’t it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I >> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in >> the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the >> vitamin overdose will kill you. >It will kill the seal too.

No, the seal naturally has this high level of Vitamin whatever in its liver. — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

Andy wrote: > In article <40BC4E0A.478F5…@execulink.com>, J > wrote > >Andy wrote: > >> Isn’t it Vitamin A that seal liver contains a huge amount of? I > >> understand that if you are in the unusual situation of being stranded in > >> the Arctic, you must NOT catch a seal and eat the liver because the > >> vitamin overdose will kill you. > >It will kill the seal too. > No, the seal naturally has this high level of Vitamin whatever in its > liver.

I was joking sort of. A seal cannot live without it’s liver, you have to kill it first (or leave it dying on the ice floe) J

Response:

In article , Andy wrote:

[...] > Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken > together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, > taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to > 3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped > 67 people with DLE. Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter > periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail. The > amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first > trial are very high and should not be taken without the > supervision of a physician.

No kidding those doses are high. 10 to 15 _grams_?! And that dose of vitamin E is high enough that you’d have to watch out for bleeding problems. Especially if you’re already on drugs that inhibit platelet formation. [...] >I would interpret this as meaning that Pantothenic acid with Vitamin E, >and the herb Astragalus, are maybe worth a carefully controlled medical >trial in both discoid and systemic lupus. Or putting it differently, >watch this space but don’t try it at home.

Definitely don’t try that at home. Just the dose of vitamin E that they used in the study is high enough to be dangerous without supervision. That’s almost as scary as the study back when I was a teenager that suggested that megadosing on vitamin A would help DLE. It sort of did, because it encouraged the keratonous layer of the skin to grow more normally, but the risk of liver damage was…uh…high…which is exactly why anyone on accutane has to have regular blood tests done (it’s a much more potent synthetic form of vitamin A). My idiot mother decided that she’d just give me loads of vitamin A, and I not knowing any better at the time, took it. I’m lucky I don’t have permanent damage from it. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert l…@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris See my CafePress Shops: http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/CafePress.html "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Timothy Luders wrote: > On Sun, 30 May 2004 04:30:50 -0400, J wrote: > > This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but > > mega doses should be checked out first, IMO > > So FWIW and check with your doctors. > http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm > Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together > with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15 > grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per > day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE.51 Pantothenic acid > by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to > fail.52 The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first > trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a > physician.

Thanks Timothy, J

Response:

In article , Timothy Luders wrote [] >http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm >Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together >with vitamin E, may help those with DLE.

Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven’t heard of DLE produced by anything other than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he inadvertently did. * which doesn’t mean it can’t happen — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:53:41 +0100, Andy wrote: > In article , Timothy Luders > wrote > [] >>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm >>Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together >>with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. > Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to > DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven’t heard of DLE produced by anything other > than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if > validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he > inadvertently did. > * which doesn’t mean it can’t happen

Actually it was referring to discoid lupus. But point well taken. Timothy

Response:

In article , Timothy Luders wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:53:41 +0100, Andy wrote: >> In article , Timothy Luders >> wrote >> [] >>>http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm >>>Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together >>>with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. >> Can I emphasise that this, and the original posting, refer to >> DRUG-INDUCED Lupus. I haven’t heard of DLE produced by anything other >> than a medically-prescribed drug (*), so hopefully this research, if >> validated, will be a way for your physician to undo that which s/he >> inadvertently did. >> * which doesn’t mean it can’t happen >Actually it was referring to discoid lupus. But point well taken.

H’mmm. The medical summary at the bottom of the original posting begins To date, the pathogenesis of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) remains unclear. By critically analyzing clinical facts and laboratory data, a hypothesis is proposed: drug-induced lupus erythematosus (DILE) is linked to a deficiency in Coenzyme A (CoA) that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid. and continues This hypothesis is used to explain the high incidence of SLE in females, the role of sex hormones in this disease and the mechanism underlying a flare. … The protean clinical presentation of SLE is attributed to co-existing deficiencies of dietary factors in addition to pantothenic acid. … Treatment is replacement therapy with doses of pantothenic acid that is hundreds of times higher than that of the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) and other vitamins. Using this method, 12 SLE females were studied with promising results. This I interpret as saying that the "pantothenic deficiency hypothesis" arose from studies of Drug-Induced Lupus and has been directly applied to Systemic lupus. That’s fair, as a hypothesis is a possible explanation of a set of observations capable of being tested. Your kingsoopers link says: Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) is an autoimmune illness that causes a characteristic rash accompanied by inflammation of connective tissue, particularly joints, throughout the body. In autoimmune diseases, the immune system attacks the body instead of protecting it. Kidney, lung, and vascular damage are potential problems resulting from SLE. … Discoid lupus erythematosus (DLE) is a milder form of lupus that affects the skin. Like SLE, it’s not known what causes DLE, though sun exposure may trigger the first outbreak. DLE is most common among women in their thirties. Then a table gives a 1-star rating to the supplements Pantothenic acid & Vitamin E and the herb Astragalus; defined below the box as "An herb is primarily supported by traditional use, or the herb or supplement has little scientific support and/or minimal health benefit." Lower down it says: Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE. Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail. The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a physician. and One Chinese preliminary trial also found that astragalus could decrease overactive immune function in people with systemic lupus erythematosus. However, much more research is needed to know whether astragalus is safe in lupus or any other autoimmune disease. I would interpret this as meaning that Pantothenic acid with Vitamin E, and the herb Astragalus, are maybe worth a carefully controlled medical trial in both discoid and systemic lupus. Or putting it differently, watch this space but don’t try it at home. — Andy Taylor [Chair, N E Lupus Group] See http://www.northeastlupus.org.uk for more!

Response:

galya wrote: > Dear all, > I don’t have lupus and don’t know much about the disorder. This post > is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that > taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE. > The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical > Hypotheses

is one thing..clinical trials are another. I have problems reading pdf files, but if someone could take a look here. It mentions such and lupus http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_pantothenicacid.pdf (I think I saw gastro upsets, but not sure) I also have a problem with someone who "doesn’t know much about Lupus" AND suggested coffee enemas to the son of someone who has advanced unresectable pancreatic cancer. This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but mega doses should be checked out first, IMO So FWIW and check with your doctors. If I have time later, I’ll try find more information. Hugs J

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 30 May 2004 04:30:50 -0400, J wrote: > galya wrote: >> Dear all, >> I don’t have lupus and don’t know much about the disorder. This post >> is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that >> taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE. >> The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical >> Hypotheses > is one thing..clinical trials are another. > I have problems reading pdf files, but if someone could take a look here. It mentions such and > lupus > http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_pantothenicacid.pdf (I think I saw gastro > upsets, but not sure) > I also have a problem with someone who "doesn’t know much about Lupus" AND suggested coffee > enemas to the son of someone who has advanced unresectable pancreatic cancer. > This vitamin may already be in our foods and vitamin supplement that some of you may take, but > mega doses should be checked out first, IMO > So FWIW and check with your doctors. If I have time later, I’ll try find more information. > Hugs > J

http://www.kingsoopers.com/HN_Concern/Lupus.htm Preliminary research suggests that pantothenic acid, when taken together with vitamin E, may help those with DLE. In one trial, taking 10 to 15 grams of pantothenic acid per day with 1,500 to 3,000 IU of vitamin E per day for as long as 19 months, helped 67 people with DLE.51 Pantothenic acid by itself for shorter periods of time in lower amounts has been reported to fail.52 The amounts of pantothenic acid and vitamin E used in the first trial are very high and should not be taken without the supervision of a physician.

Response:

Dear all, I don’t have lupus and don’t know much about the disorder. This post is just to inform you about a newly published paper suggesting that taking mega doses of vitamin B5 may help SLE. The paper was published in the peer-reviewed journal Medical Hypotheses by a researcher who in 1995 published a similar paper regarding B5 vs. acne. That paper was posted on alt.skincare.acne newsgroup http://groups.google.com/groups?q=alt.skincare.acne&btnG=Search&meta=… around 2000 by a pharmacist who suffered from acne and was helped by taking B5. Ever since, many people have found it to be great for clearing their acne and the topic has been probably the most discussed topic on that newsgroup. Following is the Medline abstract of the paper. Please note that I see myself only as the messenger (someone in my family benefited tremendously from 2-4 grams of B5/daily for clearing acne – after I ‘found’ it discussed in the above newsgroup) and will not be able to contribute to any farther discussion wrt SLE;-). Regards, galya Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(6):922-4. Related Articles, Links Systemic lupus erythematosus: a combined deficiency disease. Leung LH. Department of General Surgery, Hong Kong Central Hospital, Hong Kong. To date, the pathogenesis of systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) remains unclear. By critically analyzing clinical facts and laboratory data, a hypothesis is proposed: drug-induced lupus erythematosus (DILE) is linked to a deficiency in Coenzyme A (CoA) that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid. This hypothesis is used to explain the high incidence of SLE in females, the role of sex hormones in this disease and the mechanism underlying a flare. The actions of anti-malarials and steroids are also discussed. The protean clinical presentation of SLE is attributed to co-existing deficiencies of dietary factors in addition to pantothenic acid. Contributing factors to these deficiencies may include increased nutritional requirements resulting from gene mutations. Treatment is replacement therapy with doses of pantothenic acid that is hundreds of times higher than that of the Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) and other vitamins. Using this method, 12 SLE females were studied with promising results. PMID: 15142649 [PubMed - in process]

Response:

Fungus (Mycoplasmas) Cause Cancer?

admin — Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

(Like opening a door to the heavens) Anth (Typing this quick because my favourite TV programme is on) What would that be?

What is the name of the show?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Like opening a door to the heavens) Anth (Typing this quick because my favourite TV programme is on) What would that be? What is the name of the show?

Wank TV, of course.

Response:

Hint: Cryptic clue ^^ in message

Response:

(Like opening a door to the heavens) Anth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Typing this quick because my favourite TV programme is on) What would that be?

Response:

(Typing this quick because my favourite TV programme is on)

What would that be?

Response:

(Typing this quick because my favourite TV programme is on) The trophoblast thesis of cancer (which has not been refuted so far) reasons that the cause of cancer is the lack of trypsin and chymotrypsin in the blood because the pancreas has failed to produce enough or these pancreatic enzymes or they are being used up digesting large quantities of proteins. When a rogue cell is generated – a trophoblast the normal action is that these enzymes digest the thick fibrin coating on the cell, so the bodies immune system attacks it. Without these enzymes the trophoblast cell attempts to make a placenta in the body (the cancer) When a baby is conceived, after so many days the babies pancreas becomes active and releases these enzymes which halt the progression of the invasive trophoblast cells. A cancer shares the same malignant properties as a placenta hence the similarity.. Metabolic protocols like Gonzalez/Kelley attempt to address this cancer by getting the patient to minimise all protein foods (so more enzymes will be available for the cancer) and ingest large quantities of live pancreatic enzymes) Gonzalez/Kelley’s protocol is currently being tested (a phase III trial at NCCAM) due to the impressive results from the pilot study on pancreatic cancer. Anth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are people getting more cancer or are people just living longer? I think that more & more people are getting chronic or wasting diseases, much earlier in their lives, … & often with no family history of such diseases. There are tests for mycoplasma & spiroplasma induced diseases, but the docs won’t order them. Instead, the docs try to force the symptom-treatment-type drugs (like the very misnamed antidepressants) onto people … (too often with lies & cons, & promises of future good care, in return for the patient’s cooperation, blind faith, & $$$ up-front), … drugs which sicken the patient (& destroy quality of life), & which keep them working hard for $$$ to buy bad meds, pay the doc, & hope for future care, … while living their lives broke & broken, betrayed. This silly-stupid approach to "medical care" by docs, proves a total loss, a waste for the patients. And it can delay their finding legitimate testing & care, in time to do any good. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Response:

Are people getting more cancer or are people just living longer? I think that more & more people are getting chronic or wasting diseases, much earlier in their lives, … & often with no family history of such diseases. There are tests for mycoplasma & spiroplasma induced diseases, but the docs won’t order them. Instead, the docs try to force the symptom-treatment-type drugs (like the very misnamed antidepressants) onto people … (too often with lies & cons, & promises of future good care, in return for the patient’s cooperation, blind faith, & $$$ up-front), … drugs which sicken the patient (& destroy quality of life), & which keep them working hard for $$$ to buy bad meds, pay the doc, & hope for future care, … while living their lives broke & broken, betrayed. This silly-stupid approach to "medical care" by docs, proves a total loss, a waste for the patients. And it can delay their finding legitimate testing & care, in time to do any good. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Response:

Why are so many people getting cancer now? And can a govt-engineered fungus (mycoplasma) cause cancer & other diseases? This post looked interesting. Fungus/Mycology: Mycoplasmas Cause Cancer? Mycoplasmas: A Stealth Weapon? Some excerpts from a post dated 8-4-2003 by shilla, titled "Chem weapons kill US soldiers", Search terms used: Mycology Cancer PATHOGENIC MYCOPLASMA A Common Disease Agent Weaponised There are 200 species of Mycoplasma. Most are innocuous and do no harm; only four or five are pathogenic. Mycoplasma fermentans (incognitus strain) probably comes from the nucleus of the Brucella bacterium. This disease agent is not a bacterium and not a virus; it is a mutated form of the Brucella bacterium, combined with a visna virus, from which the mycoplasma is extracted. Govt-Engineered, Released & Spread Diseases The pathogenic Mycoplasma used to be very innocuous, … but biological warfare research conducted between 1942 and the present time, has resulted in the creation of more deadly and infectious forms of Mycoplasma. Researchers extracted this mycoplasma from the Brucella bacterium, and actually reduced the disease to a crystalline form. They "weaponised" it and tested it on an unsuspecting public in North America. Dr Maurice Hilleman (chief virologist for the pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp & Dohme), … stated that this disease agent is now carried by everybody in North America, and possibly most people throughout the world. Despite reporting flaws, there has clearly been an increased incidence of all the neuro/systemic degenerative diseases since World War II, … and especially since the 1970s with the arrival of previously unheard-of diseases, like chronic fatigue syndrome and AIDS. According to Dr Shyh-Ching Lo (senior researcher at The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and one of America’s top mycoplasma researchers), .. this disease agent causes many illnesses including AIDS, cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome, Crohn’s colitis, Type I diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, Wegener’s disease and collagen-vascular diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimer’s. Dr Charles Engel (who is with the US National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland), stated the following at an NIH meeting on February 7, 2000: "I am now of the view that the probable cause of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, is the mycoplasma …" How the Mycoplasma Works The mycoplasma acts by entering into the individual cells of the body, depending upon your genetic predisposition. You may develop neurological diseases, if the pathogen destroys certain cells in your brain, … or you may develop Crohn’s colitis, if the pathogen invades and destroys cells in the lower bowel. Once the mycoplasma gets into the cell, it can lie there doing nothing sometimes for 10, 20 or 30 years, … but if a trauma occurs like an accident or a vaccination that doesn’t take, the mycoplasma can become triggered. Because it is only the DNA particle of the bacterium, it doesn’t have any organelles to process its own nutrients, … so it grows by uptaking pre-formed sterols from its host cell and it literally kills the cell; the cell ruptures and what is left gets dumped into the bloodstream. II &endash; CREATION OF THE MYCOPLASMA A Laboratory-Made Disease Agent Many doctors don’t know about this mycoplasma disease agent, because it was developed by the US military in biological warfare experimentation, and it was not made public. This pathogen was patented by the United States military and by Dr Shyh-Ching Lo. I have a copy of the documented patent from the US Patent Office. All the countries at war were experimenting with biological weapons. In 1942, the governments of the United States, Canada, and Britain entered into a secret agreement, to create two types of biological weapons … (one that would kill, and one that was disabling) … for use in the war against Germany and Japan, who were also developing biological weapons. While they researched a number of disease pathogens, they primarily focused on the Brucella bacterium and began to weaponise it. From its inception, the biowarfare program was characterised by continuing in-depth review, … and participation by the most eminent scientists, medical consultants, industrial experts and government officials, and it was classified Top Secret. The US Public Health Service also closely followed the progress of biological warfare research and development, from the very start of the program, … and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the United States, were working with the military in weaponising these diseases. These are diseases that have existed for thousands of years, but they have been weaponised–which means they’ve been made more contagious and more effective. And they are spreading. Special Virus Cancer Program, CIA & NIH The Special Virus Cancer Program, created by the CIA and NIH, to develop a deadly pathogen for which humanity had no natural immunity (AIDS), … was disguised as "a war on cancer", but was actually part of MKNAOMI. Many members of the Senate and House of Representatives do not know what has been going on. The US Senate, through the Government Reform Committee, is trying to stop this type of government research. Crystalline Brucella The title page of a genuine US Senate Study (declassified on February 24, 1977), shows that George Merck … [of the pharmaceutical company, Merck Sharp & Dohme (which now makes cures for diseases, that at one time it created)], … reported in 1946 to the US Secretary of War, that his researchers had managed "for the first time" to "isolate the disease agent in crystalline form". They had produced a crystalline bacterial toxin, extracted from the Brucella bacterium. The bacterial toxin could be removed in crystalline form, … and stored, transported, and deployed without deteriorating. It could be delivered by other vectors, such as insects, aerosol, or the food chain (in nature it is delivered within the bacterium). But the factor that is working in the Brucella, is the mycoplasma. Disabling People Brucella is a disease agent that doesn’t kill people; it disables them. But, according to Dr Donald MacArthur of the Pentagon, appearing before a congressional committee in 1969, … researchers found that if they had mycoplasma at a certain strength–actually, 10 to the 10th power (1010)–it would develop into AIDS, … and the person would die from it within a reasonable period of time because it could bypass the natural human defences. If the strength was 108, the person would manifest with chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia. If it was 107, they would present as wasting; they wouldn’t die and they wouldn’t be disabled, … but they would not be very interested in life; they would waste away. Most of us have never heard of the disease brucellosis, because it largely disappeared when they began pasteurising milk, which was the carrier. One salt shaker of the pure disease agent in a crystalline form, could sicken the entire population of Canada. It is absolutely deadly, not so much in terms of killing the body, but disabling it. Because the crystalline disease agent goes into solution in the blood, ordinary blood and tissue tests will not reveal its presence. The mycoplasma will only crystallise at 8.1 pH, and the blood has a pH of 7.4 pH. So the doctor thinks your complaint is "all in your head". Crystalline Brucella and Multiple Sclerosis Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Response:

Myco-Diseases On the newsgroups, one guy labelled the cancer caused by fungus (mycoplasmas), as Myco-Cancer. There could also be Myco-MS, Myco-Alzheimer’s, Myco-Fibromyalgia, etc. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Response:

Are people getting more cancer or are people just living longer? Anth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why are so many people getting cancer now? And can a govt-engineered fungus (mycoplasma) cause cancer & other diseases? This post looked interesting. Fungus/Mycology: Mycoplasmas Cause Cancer? Mycoplasmas: A Stealth Weapon? Some excerpts from a post dated 8-4-2003 by shilla, titled "Chem weapons kill US soldiers", Search terms used: Mycology Cancer PATHOGENIC MYCOPLASMA A Common Disease Agent Weaponised There are 200 species of Mycoplasma. Most are innocuous and do no harm; only four or five are pathogenic. Mycoplasma fermentans (incognitus strain) probably comes from the nucleus of the Brucella bacterium. This disease agent is not a bacterium and not a virus; it is a mutated form of the Brucella bacterium, combined with a visna virus, from which the mycoplasma is extracted. Govt-Engineered, Released & Spread Diseases The pathogenic Mycoplasma used to be very innocuous, … but biological warfare research conducted between 1942 and the present time, has resulted in the creation of more deadly and infectious forms of Mycoplasma. Researchers extracted this mycoplasma from the Brucella bacterium, and actually reduced the disease to a crystalline form. They "weaponised" it and tested it on an unsuspecting public in North America. Dr Maurice Hilleman (chief virologist for the pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp & Dohme), … stated that this disease agent is now carried by everybody in North America, and possibly most people throughout the world. Despite reporting flaws, there has clearly been an increased incidence of all the neuro/systemic degenerative diseases since World War II, … and especially since the 1970s with the arrival of previously unheard-of diseases, like chronic fatigue syndrome and AIDS. According to Dr Shyh-Ching Lo (senior researcher at The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and one of America’s top mycoplasma researchers), .. this disease agent causes many illnesses including AIDS, cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome, Crohn’s colitis, Type I diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, Wegener’s disease and collagen-vascular diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimer’s. Dr Charles Engel (who is with the US National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland), stated the following at an NIH meeting on February 7, 2000: "I am now of the view that the probable cause of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, is the mycoplasma …" How the Mycoplasma Works The mycoplasma acts by entering into the individual cells of the body, depending upon your genetic predisposition. You may develop neurological diseases, if the pathogen destroys certain cells in your brain, … or you may develop Crohn’s colitis, if the pathogen invades and destroys cells in the lower bowel. Once the mycoplasma gets into the cell, it can lie there doing nothing sometimes for 10, 20 or 30 years, … but if a trauma occurs like an accident or a vaccination that doesn’t take, the mycoplasma can become triggered. Because it is only the DNA particle of the bacterium, it doesn’t have any organelles to process its own nutrients, … so it grows by uptaking pre-formed sterols from its host cell and it literally kills the cell; the cell ruptures and what is left gets dumped into the bloodstream. II &endash; CREATION OF THE MYCOPLASMA A Laboratory-Made Disease Agent Many doctors don’t know about this mycoplasma disease agent, because it was developed by the US military in biological warfare experimentation, and it was not made public. This pathogen was patented by the United States military and by Dr Shyh-Ching Lo. I have a copy of the documented patent from the US Patent Office. All the countries at war were experimenting with biological weapons. In 1942, the governments of the United States, Canada, and Britain entered into a secret agreement, to create two types of biological weapons … (one that would kill, and one that was disabling) … for use in the war against Germany and Japan, who were also developing biological weapons. While they researched a number of disease pathogens, they primarily focused on the Brucella bacterium and began to weaponise it. From its inception, the biowarfare program was characterised by continuing in-depth review, … and participation by the most eminent scientists, medical consultants, industrial experts and government officials, and it was classified Top Secret. The US Public Health Service also closely followed the progress of biological warfare research and development, from the very start of the program, … and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the United States, were working with the military in weaponising these diseases. These are diseases that have existed for thousands of years, but they have been weaponised–which means they’ve been made more contagious and more effective. And they are spreading. Special Virus Cancer Program, CIA & NIH The Special Virus Cancer Program, created by the CIA and NIH, to develop a deadly pathogen for which humanity had no natural immunity (AIDS), … was disguised as "a war on cancer", but was actually part of MKNAOMI. Many members of the Senate and House of Representatives do not know what has been going on. The US Senate, through the Government Reform Committee, is trying to stop this type of government research. Crystalline Brucella The title page of a genuine US Senate Study (declassified on February 24, 1977), shows that George Merck … [of the pharmaceutical company, Merck Sharp & Dohme (which now makes cures for diseases, that at one time it created)], … reported in 1946 to the US Secretary of War, that his researchers had managed "for the first time" to "isolate the disease agent in crystalline form". They had produced a crystalline bacterial toxin, extracted from the Brucella bacterium. The bacterial toxin could be removed in crystalline form, … and stored, transported, and deployed without deteriorating. It could be delivered by other vectors, such as insects, aerosol, or the food chain (in nature it is delivered within the bacterium). But the factor that is working in the Brucella, is the mycoplasma. Disabling People Brucella is a disease agent that doesn’t kill people; it disables them. But, according to Dr Donald MacArthur of the Pentagon, appearing before a congressional committee in 1969, … researchers found that if they had mycoplasma at a certain strength–actually, 10 to the 10th power (1010)–it would develop into AIDS, … and the person would die from it within a reasonable period of time because it could bypass the natural human defences. If the strength was 108, the person would manifest with chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia. If it was 107, they would present as wasting; they wouldn’t die and they wouldn’t be disabled, … but they would not be very interested in life; they would waste away. Most of us have never heard of the disease brucellosis, because it largely disappeared when they began pasteurising milk, which was the carrier. One salt shaker of the pure disease agent in a crystalline form, could sicken the entire population of Canada. It is absolutely deadly, not so much in terms of killing the body, but disabling it. Because the crystalline disease agent goes into solution in the blood, ordinary blood and tissue tests will not reveal its presence. The mycoplasma will only crystallise at 8.1 pH, and the blood has a pH of 7.4 pH. So the doctor thinks your complaint is "all in your head". Crystalline Brucella and Multiple Sclerosis Susan, Su_Texas my opinions

Response:

A TIME FOR CHANGE

admin — Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Is it me or are you racist ? Suprising after what you just wrote about ‘the madness that (…) does surround us all". E

Response:

I believe we all have racist tendencies, but I could be wrong. There is a difference between having racist tendencies and being a racist, IMHO. I will usually be less inclined to trust someone who claims to have no racist tendencies at all, than someone who is honest about it. Too much perfection makes me nervous. Red flag. SELF-DENIAL

Response:

Hi In hopes that someday there will be a cure for all cancers, particularly Pancreatic Cancer, a new song "Teddy’s Song" will soon be available for purchase with proceeds to go directly to cancer research. Details for "Teddy’s Song" will be made as soon as possible. "Teddy’s Song" is dedicated to my Uncle, Harold T. Mahler of whom passed away October 5, 2003 due to Pancreatic Cancer. "Teddy’s Song" is of course for anyone who ever lost a loved one as well. btw, Uncle Ted used to work for the phone company there is a horizon…. "Teddy’s Song" is by William K. Mahler, Copyright 2003 ASCAP application under review. http://www.mahlers.com/whatdoyouknow.mp3 "What Do You Know" A call to ones true self and a call to lead oneself in this world in the realm of nature to find peace through the madness that is perhaps in us and does surround us all. "What Do You Know" is by William K. Mahler, Copyright 2003 ASCAP application under review. Are you tired of being forced out of your job by someone who cannot speak or read english? Are you tired of not knowing if that $7.00 an hour job is going to be there for not only for yourself but your American full citizen neighbor because of a business mans decision to take advantage of the current U. S. laws and regulations that stem from immigration and free trade? I am from Cape Cod, Massachusetts and you may read my story and of course, join the cape cod and the islands yahoogroup so that in hopes we American citizens do not end up in a country that was once the America we knew of but a country that is in the name of democracy a country that is formed like every government we ever tried not to be. http://www.mahlers.com "Employment & Immigration" Are you tired of the mental health system, the legal system and the goverment system of your town, state and U. S. Government having the ball entirely in their court while you are subject to the whims and ever changing society we live in as you are forced into situations where your life changes simply for someone of authority has deemed you mentally unstable? Are you tired of not having a true voice in your defense who is not an employee of the goverment, any goverment but an employee of yours in the form of a mental health attorney? This is currently not a even balance at all here in Massachusetts. http://www.mahlers.com "Schizophrenia" Are you tired of the anger, the fear, the frustration of knowing that what we view from outside the middle east can and most likely will come our way here in the United States in the form of violence this country has never experienced and seek to find a non violent, non lethal means of defense and opposition? http://www.m2tech.us M2 Technologies Inc. http://www.janetmorris.net http://www.janetmorris.org and http://www.mahlers.com/womp.htm Thank you, Sincerely, William K. Mahler Mahlers Of Cape Cod http://www.mahlers.com

Response:

My poor behaviour here.

admin — Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Not right or wrong. Just a perspective.

Ha! The troll is trolled. Cool! It looks like you share with an inner circle of trusted friends and family your castings.

Not really. They read my stuff and wander off muttering under their breath. Sometimes they’ll make me a cup of tea. I think that’s a sign of their approval, don’t you? It also appears that your professional circle has placed on your shoulders a cloak of respectibility and a straitjacket of professional propriety.

That’s as good a definition of ‘a profession’ as I’ve ever come across. I shall include that in a presentation someday, unattributed of course. Not that it matters to you, I wonder: Would your professional peers look at you differently or judge you differently for the fun you’re having at rec.running?

Absolutely. Has your professional community been the recipient of your written or verbal repartee?

Oh yes. People hate me in the Real World too. Only knowing the "per sonae" you speak through, I don’t know if you’re retired and have this large amount of time to correspond with rec.running and other venues; or if you’re so organized and orderly that these free moments are refreshing and a rejuvenation to go back to your work renewed; or is it a Socratic journey of knowing yourself; or are you brilliant and need an outlet to share it with others so that they can be dazzled…and blinded….by your light? I am reminded that when one is in the limelight, one is blinded to themself.

Apart from the retired element, a bit of all the others I guess. It’s not so much a question of ‘knowing yourself’, after all, what good is ‘knowing myself’ going to do me? Could my love for self be any stronger? It’s more to do with finding out how I perform in new environments. Where is the challenge in being an honest, worthy, contributor? Someone called ‘Oz’ has that base covered. So I try to make a home for myself as a troll that doesn’t use foul language, that attempts to argue sensibly using his chosen persona, that admits to his mistakes, and that works hard using all his resources to be the ‘most damned annoying’ troll on Usenet. I’m not there yet. Mastering alt.support.childfree is my goal, rec.running my training ground. Matters went badly awry in asc on my last two visits. Nice people got hurt, honourable souls were misused. I can and will do better. My ultimate goal is to take *one* person from connection through hatred and back to connection again, from being my friend prior to my trolling, through hating me as a troll, back to a working friendship. *If*, and it’s a big if, I can achieve that, then all the time and effort I’ve spent here over the past two years will have been worthwhile. There you are! An answer to your question (or is it an answer to mine?). It’s all about manipulating relationships conducted by words alone. I end where it really begins: my view of you is not you; and your view of me is not me.

Oh, I think it is. We all think ‘we’ are different from our external image, but are we really? It’s entirely possible that the creature ‘Roger’ is indeed the most realistic expression of my personality I’ve ever permitted to appear. Eeeew! Scary! The arrival of the marine layer has started to clear away the smoky aftermath of confligration. While the fires continue to rage now being pushed up into the mountains and towards the desert, Southern California begins to measure the aftermath.

Is that a cleverly worded analogy for recent events on rec.running or were you really referring to the firestorms? From the news coverage in the UK looks like you guys had a particularly nasty time. I hope those you care about came through OK. Roger.

Response:

What’s the point? My webpage is listed in my signature, and it, and my posts, paint a pretty comprehensive picture.

Oh, OK. Hate to burst your bubble but I’d never visited your site until this morning, nor have you made any particular impact upon my memory via your posts. So it would have been a genuine guess. However, having skimmed your site, I will confess to a deep and abiding resentment that you have somehow acquired the most stunning girl I have ever seen. Not only is she amazingly beautiful, but she has a dress sense that would impress an inhabitant of Rome. May I make a suggestion? If you do nothing else with your life, make sure you stick like glue to that woman. Whatever her personality, I would live with the most evil woman in the world if she looked like that. You are a HORRIBLY fortunate man. I envy you. Deeply. Roger.

Response:

Good point. By the way, I recommend that you troll on some online games instead. You get instant reaction, hence gratification. This newsgroup trolling is so last century.

I am old. My reaction speed is low. I can barely keep up with the rec.runners. On and off for about 1 year or so with different identities. I assume that your other handle is Bill Roger? Yeah, you managed to troll me about 3 times I think. You must have a lot of free time.

I’m not Bill Rodgers. I prefer to call him Wobbot, a derivation of one of his previous personalities, "Mr Robottow". He’s a rather strange character but in many ways quite likeable. He does, however, possess a potty mouth. Frankly, I am not bothered by trolls here. They are a lot less harmful than dogs chasing after me when I run.

You are one of the few rec.runners who see more danger in the real world than on their computer screen. That makes you one of our first realists. Welcome! Roger.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why not? It is free, quick and easy. And too much like hard work. The only thing that I don’t understand is why troll rec.running? ‘Cause I’m a runner? If I’m going to troll a group I might as well troll one where people occasionally say something that interests me.

Good point. By the way, I recommend that you troll on some online games instead. You get instant reaction, hence gratification. This newsgroup trolling is so last century. People are not that easily provoked here. You’ve not been around long, have you?

On and off for about 1 year or so with different identities. I assume that your other handle is Bill Roger? Yeah, you managed to troll me about 3 times I think. You must have a lot of free time. Maybe he just wanted a challenge, but then again he may just be stupid. Go with the latter

Frankly, I am not bothered by trolls here. They are a lot less harmful than dogs chasing after me when I run. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Roger.

Response:

There’s a challenge, analyzing someone who publically posts his real information. Take on something a little tougher — why not tell [...] All a guess, of course, though it was fun. Can I do you next?

What’s the point? My webpage is listed in my signature, and it, and my posts, paint a pretty comprehensive picture. I’ve been active in online communities for a _long_ time – about eighteen years now. When I was a wee, but bright, brat, it was pretty easy to cloak my insecurities behind the facade of someone a bit older and more knowledgable. As I grew up a bit (yeah, yeah), I started to realize that what made me happiest was presenting myself honestly to the people with whom I interacted. I figure that if there’s something I want to do for which I need to pretend to be someone else, then I should probably make sure I can do it myself. The difference is pretty simple – I like myself, and I wouldn’t change shoes with anyone. Wouldn’t mind genetics that let me run like Paula Radcliffe, or a few more hours in the day to catch up all the things I don’t have time for, but in the grand scheme of things, that’s all little stuff. -Dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

"Ozzie Gontang" They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed." Well done Oz, though I suppose the law of averages says you’re bound to get things right sometimes. Couldn’t you have let Andrew and I play a little longer? He may have learnt something, as may I. Now you’ve spoiled it for both of us. Roger.

Not right or wrong. Just a perspective. I like the Zen perspective that praise or criticism are two sides of the same coin. Often it is easier to be hooked by the deftly cast lure of praise. With polarized glasses the fisherman sees where the fish are and knows that sooner or later one of the lures will snag an unsuspecting new fish to the stream, or finally capture a momentarily distracted regular. It looks like you share with an inner circle of trusted friends and family your castings. It also appears that your professional circle has placed on your shoulders a cloak of respectibility and a straitjacket of professional propriety. Not that it matters to you, I wonder: Would your professional peers look at you differently or judge you differently for the fun you’re having at rec.running? Has your professional community been the recipient of your written or verbal repartee? Only knowing the "per sonae" you speak through, I don’t know if you’re retired and have this large amount of time to correspond with rec.running and other venues; or if you’re so organized and orderly that these free moments are refreshing and a rejuvenation to go back to your work renewed; or is it a Socratic journey of knowing yourself; or are you brilliant and need an outlet to share it with others so that they can be dazzled…and blinded….by your light? I am reminded that when one is in the limelight, one is blinded to themself. The reality for me is that it’s none of my business. I believe that someone wrote a book: What You Think of Me Is None of My Business. I just wonder, and go back to sharing some of my folklore on running, or some of the exercises that worked for preventing or dealing with injuries, or playing with my minority view of proper running form and style. I end where it really begins: my view of you is not you; and your view of me is not me. We and all the posters at rec.running are so much more. Rec.running remains a marvelous, plastic and malliable fiction preserved in an ocean of electrons. We both cast into this pond of rec.running. It is interesting to see what we catch and are nourished by. It is also interesting to see if barbed or barbless hooks work better. From my castings, I learn what works and doesn’t work for me. I trust that the others like myself view themselves sometimes as fisher and sometimes as fish. Both learning to survive to an age of seniority from all their experiences of living life fully….away from the screen and keyboard. The arrival of the marine layer has started to clear away the smoky aftermath of confligration. While the fires continue to rage now being pushed up into the mountains and towards the desert, Southern California begins to measure the aftermath. Looks like the Julian 10K will not be run this coming Saturday. From the NY Times: The October Fires in California The fires demonstrate how the volatility and wildness of Southern California’s landscape can belie the apparent order of its subdivisions and suburbs. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/30/opinion/30THU5.html?th In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

Response:

not so. i see you as nothing other than a figure that presents a personality you don’t in RL living vicariously on a ng… Yes, that’s true. It’s fun. Want to join in?

No it is moral cowardice. It also porves you are not a medical person as it violates your oaths. Those oaths mean something in all parts of life. or your fulfilling a need on this ng w/this personality of yours you are not able to fulfill in RL. Quite possibly. Tell me, doctor, is this wrong?

I thought you were a doctor. Maybe you could heal thyself. BAAAAAAWAAAAAHAHHHAAA. Alternatively, why live life as just one personality type? I can be troll ‘Roger’ here, fatherly ‘Roger’ at home, professional ‘Roger’ at work. We all have multiple personalities. I’m a little more obvious in mine, that’s all.

Except fraser there is no child there is no profession there is only fraser the neturbator. You should get help. You should be proud enough to have escaped Callander. No, I’d be certifiable. ‘Roger’ is a demented fool,

An admission of guilt. full of cleverness He wishes. and stupidity.

Another admission. He lacks compassion yet demands it from others.

Also proof you are not a medical person. He is the very antithesis of Humanity. And I love him so.

Do not get your screen sticky. I realise that boundaries exist in the Real World, if that’s what you mean. So I come where they’re wider to play. Again, why is this wrong?

Because you damage others. It is called bullying. Maybe you should try reading the news about the results. You know about the suicides at Deepcut. This is an extreme example. But this is where your behaivor can lead. The yanks still speak in hushed tones about Colombine High School. i don’t fall for you roger, i pity you. you’re no different than these people that have hidden second lives they live out on – line… Mine uses transparency to transcend fantasy. It’s real because it’s unreal. Yet another paradox to play with.

The only paradox is how you live with yourself knowing you are a pig.

Response:

Why not? It is free, quick and easy.

And too much like hard work. The only thing that I don’t understand is why troll rec.running?

‘Cause I’m a runner? If I’m going to troll a group I might as well troll one where people occasionally say something that interests me. People are not that easily provoked here.

You’ve not been around long, have you? Maybe he just wanted a challenge, but then again he may just be stupid.

Go with the latter Roger.

Response:

not bad roger, close, but no surprise as i’ve disclosed much of what you

tapped on in this ng before and you missed on the ivy league pal. but that’s no impressive badge imo…long time ago… Andrew, this may surprise you but I rarely read your posts. Those were genuine guesses based on what you’ve written, and the way you’ve presented yourself, over the past couple of days. Sorry to have missed the Ivy League badge, or rather *you* should be sorry that you don’t present better. your rejoice in getting into a personality, and tormenting (being a troll)

on this ng "no holds barred". you have no decency, respect or consideration for the group at large and the inclusion of an array of participants. That’s what a troll *does*. I’m actually quite a mild and polite troll. I think that’s what makes me so effective. young kids come on here and you scare them off.

Name one. Just one. women post a question and you’re crude and insulting to them.

I resent that, Andrew. If you’re going to make specific allegations I suggest you have the courtesy to provide the evidence or withdraw your allegations and apologise. Or do you work to the same values you seek to criticise? any wonder why few women (other than Teresa in Az for example) post around

here? my goodness….as rude and crude as some of you trolls are? don’t assume a newbie gets your little troll game and offensive character you play on the ng. you spoil the community by being offensive and annoying enough to completely innocent well meaning newbies. how, why you take pleasure and amusement in that illustrates your profound immaturity and lack of consideration of the right of others to come on this ng and discuss running. i sense this is a result of you probably not being heard in your professional life….and well at least here….you make us here you. in otherwords this is where you compensate for the shortcomings and the repression you have in your RL. Are you presenting this overview as your perception of me or as an analysis of all trolls? I’m happy to speak for myself and defend my record. I’m considerably less happy to defend the position taken by others. i don’t live any aspect of my life in shame roger. you do.

possibility of meeting other participants on this ng at a regional race for example…and that’s your loss my friend. I have a real life, Andrew, I don’t need to seek new friends here. Sure, there are some I would make an effort to meet ’cause I like the way they think, but if we’re destined never to meet then I won’t consider my life to have lacked value. next time you want to get in character and be rude or crude to a woman

here roger for example….remember that’s someone’s sister or daughter roger…will ya?…. Provide your evidence that I have been ‘rude or crude’ in a manner specific to women or withdraw your slur. I think Oz has all my posts archived. You could ask him to do a search when you fall short. Would you like me to insult you based on my unsubstantiated opinion of your ethnic background or sexual orientation? I’m guessing not. Play the game correctly Andrew, or you run the risk of steering your already leaky craft into deep and dangerous waters… and the ng has a chance to be enriched by another voice…

This newsgroup is graced by my presence. What greater fortune could it seek? the ng is better off if you’re decent……

I am, Andrew. Pity is, you can’t see that. Roger.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your right, here we go again with the hackneyed woe is me, I’m gonna go eat worms…. Your game is growing very boring..yawn….. OK, it’s on again!. I’m betting on 24 hours. What about you, Doug ? I can’t believe that both of you have bought this. More than likely it’s Bill up to his old tricks. Why would Roger create a new email address just to say goodbye? Tim

Why not? It is free, quick and easy. The only thing that I don’t understand is why troll rec.running? People are not that easily provoked here. Maybe he just wanted a challenge, but then again he may just be stupid.

Response:

There is plenty of room for you to go on playing J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed." Well done Oz, though I suppose the law of averages says you’re bound to get things right sometimes. Couldn’t you have let Andrew and I play a little longer? He may have learnt something, as may I. Now you’ve spoiled it for both of us. Roger.

Response:

They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

Well done Oz, though I suppose the law of averages says you’re bound to get things right sometimes. Couldn’t you have let Andrew and I play a little longer? He may have learnt something, as may I. Now you’ve spoiled it for both of us. Roger.

Response:

not bad roger, close, but no surprise as i’ve disclosed much of what you tapped on in this ng before and you missed on the ivy league pal. but that’s no impressive badge imo…long time ago…however to the point, i don’t need to live out an aspect of my life in secret ashamed of what others might think. i also don’t live vicariously through an alias on the net. in otherwords roger i live an authentic life 24/7/365. that’s what you don’t do. your rejoice in getting into a personality, and tormenting (being a troll) on this ng "no holds barred". you have no decency, respect or consideration for the group at large and the inclusion of an array of participants. young kids come on here and you scare them off. women post a question and you’re crude and insulting to them. and you take pride in that? any wonder why few women (other than Teresa in Az for example) post around here? my goodness….as rude and crude as some of you trolls are? don’t assume a newbie gets your little troll game and offensive character you play on the ng. you spoil the community by being offensive and annoying enough to completely innocent well meaning newbies. how, why you take pleasure and amusement in that illustrates your profound immaturity and lack of consideration of the right of others to come on this ng and discuss running. i sense this is a result of you probably not being heard in your professional life….and well at least here….you make us here you. in otherwords this is where you compensate for the shortcomings and the repression you have in your RL. i don’t live any aspect of my life in shame roger. you do. because you’re inauthentic and disingenuous on this ng, you rule out the possibility of meeting other participants on this ng at a regional race for example…and that’s your loss my friend. life is about the human experience roger….enjoying it…encouraging it….not spoiling it. when you’re rude and crude in character on this ng to a newbie, a kid, a woman….you’re spoiling the ng and that person’s individual experience here. next time you want to get in character and be rude or crude to a woman here roger for example….remember that’s someone’s sister or daughter roger…will ya?….and the ng has a chance to be enriched by another voice….or find you sufficiently rude enough to go away. the ng is better off if you’re decent……

Response:

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We all have multiple personalities. I’m a little more obvious in mine, that’s all. ___ no, this is where you’re wrong roger. you’re too ashamed w/self to expose this aspect of your life with anyone. i am sure no one in your family or professional like knows this aspect of your character and you don’t want them to know about it. it’s wrong and unhealthy when you live a lie. that’s what you do. that’s the answer to your question, you are not authentic with people, family, friends, co-workers, etc. we don’t all live lies roger. we don’t all have a repressed side of who we are that we feel the need to live out (as long as we can do it in anonymity) on the net.

Global, I can only speak for myself. Roger/Jo/Frasier/Syndens is someone who may have used rec.running to do the research and character development for a manuscript. I don’t even know the truth of that. The person writing behind the various pseudonyms writes well and hooks people. Actually he doesn’t hook people in, people choose to bite and then often go unconscious as they project upon the writer those things one doesn’t want to examine within oneself. I have found that rather than an "I resent that comment" I could say "I represent that comment." We’ve talked about this before around here: all convesations are with myself and they happen to involve other people a good deal of the time. For me, what is written, thought or spoken by someone says more about the one thinking, writting or speaking than it says about what or who is being thought about, written or spoken about. Whatever I feed grows. The following was passed on to my by a dear running friend who is now more of a biker and also has taken again playing music. He lost his wife over a year ago to pancreatic cancer. He is a grounded soul with a mind trained through the discipline of nuclear physics. It talks to me and may speak to you, and it may speak to rec.running or any newsgroup when one goes unconscious and bites on the lure of a troll fishing for a nice thoughtful repast and a wetted appetite for repartee. An elder Cherokee Native American was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A fight is going on inside me. It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, arrogance, envy, ego, greed, self-pity, guilt, resentment, lies, and false pride. The other stands for forgiveness, truth, love, serenity, hope, humility, generosity, kindness, compassion and joy. This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too." They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed." ’The only basis for living is believing in life, loving it, and applying the whole force of one’s intellect to know it better.’ — Emile Zola In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer – rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

Response:

Then you’re missing out on a heap of fun. You’ve attempted to psychoanalyse me, can I have a shot at you? You: Were educated past High School but not to Ivy League level. [...] Just give me a score. So many out of 8.

There’s a challenge, analyzing someone who publically posts his real information. Take on something a little tougher — why not tell us all about dear Wobbot, since he’s a bit more adept at maintaining anonymity than those of us who don’t cloak ourselves. -Dave — work: dga – at – lcs.mit.edu me: angio – at – pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed…) bulk emailers: I do not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.

Response:

Ah, that *is* a challenge. To be honest everything would be a guess. He’s a good troll. Even when we were ‘friends’ he never let his guard slip. If I were to guess I’d say he was late 40’s, male, white, married/divorced, no kids (despite his protestations otherwise), educated to High School level, technical background, worked for a major company but was downsized and is still pretty pissed about it, currently works locally but in a menial job. As a person you’d find him bright, engaging, with a sound sense of humour yet somewhat aloof. I’d imagine he was an athlete of some ability in the past although he rarely competed. His running is currently limited by various minor ailments. He is slightly overweight. All a guess, of course, though it was fun. Can I do you next? Roger.

Response:

not so. i see you as nothing other than a figure that presents a

personality you don’t in RL living vicariously on a ng… Yes, that’s true. It’s fun. Want to join in? probably the result of being repressed in some manner in your childhood

How the hell did you know about my sister dressing me up as a girlie? or your fulfilling a need on this ng w/this personality of yours you are

not able to fulfill in RL. Quite possibly. Tell me, doctor, is this wrong? you’re too psychologically underdeveloped to understand life can be short

and it’s more rewarding to be genuine and authentic in RL and on an ng. Alternatively, why live life as just one personality type? I can be troll ‘Roger’ here, fatherly ‘Roger’ at home, professional ‘Roger’ at work. We all have multiple personalities. I’m a little more obvious in mine, that’s all. if your RL personality was on par w/what you present here, I would think

you’re at least genuine and authentic. No, I’d be certifiable. ‘Roger’ is a demented fool, full of cleverness and stupidity. He lacks compassion yet demands it from others. He is the very antithesis of normality. And I love him so. you’re well educated, but repressed and thus under an alias come here and

be what you lack the authenticity and courage in character to be in RL. I realise that boundaries exist in the Real World, if that’s what you mean. So I come where they’re wider to play. Again, why is this wrong? i don’t fall for you roger, i pity you. you’re no different than these

people that have hidden second lives they live out on – line… Mine uses transparency to transcend fantasy. It’s real because it’s unreal. Yet another paradox to play with. Roger.

Response:

We all have multiple personalities. I’m a little more obvious in mine, that’s all. ___ no, this is where you’re wrong roger. you’re too ashamed w/self to expose this aspect of your life with anyone. i am sure no one in your family or professional like knows this aspect of your character and you don’t want them to know about it. it’s wrong and unhealthy when you live a lie. that’s what you do. that’s the answer to your question, you are not authentic with people, family, friends, co-workers, etc. we don’t all live lies roger. we don’t all have a repressed side of who we are that we feel the need to live out (as long as we can do it in anonymity) on the net.

Response:

no, this is where you’re wrong roger. you’re too ashamed w/self to expose this aspect of your life with anyone. i am sure no one in your family or professional like knows this aspect of your character and you don’t want them to know about it.

If I believed anything of what I write I would agree with you. I find this ‘Roger’ thing to be one of the most amusing and interesting games that’s flitted through my head in recent years. we don’t all live lies roger.

It’s only a lie if you deceive yourself. I annoy folk who, despite knowing it’s a sham, simply can’t avoid making a response. They need me we don’t all have a repressed side of who we are that we feel the need to

live out (as long as we can do it in anonymity) on the net. Then you’re missing out on a heap of fun. You’ve attempted to psychoanalyse me, can I have a shot at you? You: Were educated past High School but not to Ivy League level. Work in a profession, but are not yourself a member of a professional body. Are from an ethnic minority. Are / were married, no kids. Work hard. Haven’t yet met all your personal goals. Tend to see life as black and white, or things as good / bad. Were raised in a one-parent family. Just give me a score. So many out of 8. Roger.

Response:

What’s more surprising is that Globaldisc fell Roger. ___ not so. i see you as nothing other than a figure that presents a personality you don’t in RL living vicariously on a ng…probably the result of being repressed in some manner in your childhood or your fulfilling a need on this ng w/this personality of yours you are not able to fulfill in RL. you’re too psychologically underdeveloped to understand life can be short and it’s more rewarding to be genuine and authentic in RL and on an ng. if your RL personality was on par w/what you present here, I would think you’re at least genuine and authentic. but i doubt that. you’re well educated, but repressed, and thus under an alias come here and be what you lack the authenticity and courage in character to be in RL. i don’t fall for you roger, i pity you. you’re no different than these people that have hidden second lives they live out on – line…..

Response:

Your right, here we go again with the hackneyed woe is me, I’m gonna go eat worms…. Your game is growing very boring..yawn….. OK, it’s on again!. I’m betting on 24 hours. What about you, Doug ?

I can’t believe that both of you have bought this. More than likely it’s Bill up to his old tricks. Why would Roger create a new email address just to say goodbye? Tim

Response:

I can’t believe that both of you have bought this. More than likely it’s Bill up to his old tricks. Why would Roger create a new email address just to say goodbye?

It’s a hotmail address. *Anyone* can fake one of those. What’s more surprising is that Globaldisc fell for my staunch defence of my ‘friend’ Timmy in the ‘7 marathon guy’ thread. As if. Roger.

Response:

You give yourself much to much credit. Your just a insecure person that writes silly things with better sentance structure than most. So before I bid you all a farewell once again, let me tell you all what an extreme pleasure it was to get to know each and everyone of you, and until my next anonymous ID turns up, I bid you farewell.

Your right, here we go again with the hackneyed woe is me, I’m gonna go eat worms…. Your game is growing very boring..yawn….. — Doug Freese "Caveat Lector"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear RR, I want to apologize to everyone here (except Wobbott)for my piss-poor behaviour over these past few months. Now that my true ID has been revealed it doesn’t seem so funny anymore, knowing that at any moment someone may walk up to me and punch me in the mouth, thereby messing up my lovely profile. You give yourself much to much credit. Your just a insecure person that writes silly things with better sentance structure than most. So before I bid you all a farewell once again, let me tell you all what an extreme pleasure it was to get to know each and everyone of you, and until my next anonymous ID turns up, I bid you farewell. Your right, here we go again with the hackneyed woe is me, I’m gonna go eat worms…. Your game is growing very boring..yawn…..

OK, it’s on again!. I’m betting on 24 hours. What about you, Doug ? Cheers, — Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Response:

Dear RR, I want to apologize to everyone here (except Wobbott)for my piss-poor behaviour over these past few months. Now that my true ID has been revealed it doesn’t seem so funny anymore, knowing that at any moment someone may walk up to me and punch me in the mouth, thereby messing up my lovely profile. So before I bid you all a farewell once again, let me tell you all what an extreme pleasure it was to get to know each and everyone of you, and until my next anonymous ID turns up, I bid you farewell. Frazer/Roger/Jo

Response:

Low carb and bad breath.

admin — Sun, 10 Aug 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’ve been low carbing for a while now. And one effect of low carb that I’ve read about is bad breath. I’ve NEVER had that problem. Seems to me that the bad breath and other "side effects" of low carb are being exaggerated by the main stream doctors. Anyone agree with me on this?

Response:

"none90810" wrote… I’ve been low carbing for a while now. And one effect of low carb that I’ve read about is bad breath. I’ve NEVER had that problem. Seems to me that the bad breath and other "side effects" of low carb are being exaggerated by the main stream doctors. Anyone agree with me on this?

To an extent, yes, I agree with you. I have five friends who do LC as well as myself, and of the five two sometimes have the ‘ketone’ breath described by Atkins in his book – a sweetish smell, rather like watered down nail polish remover. This is unusual, but it’s actually not unpleasant. At least, I don’t think so but YMMV. One occasionally has the ‘ammonia’ bad breath Jenny describes as being a by-product of too much protein, which is actually (I think) a completely different smell – I may be in the unusual position of being able to compare but I wonder if anyone else is and what they think. Another simply has bad teeth, and will not go to a dentist (believe me, we’ve discussed it with her at length) she’s terrified of dentists and there the matter rests. The final one has the same breath she’s always had, no better or worse than anyone else. Virtually everyone, whether they know it or not, occasionally has ‘bad’ breath. As for me, none of my friends have ever said, and I do my best to follow scrupulous mouth hygiene and watch my protein intake carefully, just in case. The worst bad breath I’ve ever encountered on anyone was a colleague I used to work with years ago, and he, poor man, couldn’t help it; it made his life a misery. The ‘bad breath’ he had was actually the result of some kind of stomach disorder, and he was due for an operation for it which kept on getting put off because of his various other health problems. He really did his best – he cleaned his teeth more than any person I’ve ever met before or since – but it didn’t seem to make much difference. So when I meet someone with really appalling breath, I always wonder if they have the same problem as my late colleague. (Yes, I mean late as in dead.) And come to think of it, my late father, when he was dying of pancreatic cancer had ‘bad breath’ but that again was a different smell, and one I don’t think I will ever mistake for anything else. — Lexin www.redrosepress.co.uk www.livejournal.com/~lexin LC since 9 June 2003 (300/270/182)

Response:

The worst bad breath I’ve ever encountered on anyone was a colleague I used to work with years ago, and he, poor man, couldn’t help it; it made his life a misery. The ‘bad breath’ he had was actually the result of some kind of stomach disorder…

It can also come with bariatric ("stomach bypass") surgery. Breath can smell like feces. I knew someone with it and omigod. Barb

Response:

Gemzar from off-shore pharmacy

admin — Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have a relative that lives in a third world country without easy or cheap access to Gemzar. The doctor has recommended the drug for her advanced pancreatic cancer. Does anyone know where I can get a supply of gemzar from an offshore pharmacy.

Response:

I am sure of a pharmacy, but make sure you are not getting a fake drug.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a relative that lives in a third world country without easy or cheap access to Gemzar. The doctor has recommended the drug for her advanced pancreatic cancer. Does anyone know where I can get a supply of gemzar from an offshore pharmacy.

Response:

I am sure of a pharmacy, but make sure you are not getting a fake drug.

Sure of what? Off-shore? That his credit card info won’t be abused? That they’ll deliver? That the product won’t get stopped at customs? That as you said, it’s the real thing? That it’ll help? 1 gm- 30 vials $17,500 (presumably in US dollars)….random ‘net find. Wouldn’t it be cheaper to bring the patient to the US and try for the needy program (if this is still in effect)? No idea if it’s still in effect or practical either but FWIW http://www.needymeds.com/Lilly-Gemzar.html I’m so sorry Steve, had no idea you were so far away from the family member. There’s also IIRC a nerve block procedure http://pathology2.jhu.edu/pancreas/bypass.cfm A celiac nerve block will alleviate such pain for several months. This is accomplished by injecting alcohol into the affected nerves to numb the sensation of pain. A celiac nerve block can be performed during a surgical procedure or as a separate procedure.[] My thoughts are with you all, Best, J

Response:

Good diet sites

admin — Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi everyone. I am new to this newsgroup and hoped some of you might be able to help. My weight has gotten way out of proportion and I would like to return to the Atkins diet with which I had some success before. Besides this group, can anyone suggest any *good* recipe sites to me. I am basically starting from the beginning and am new to all this. Thank you! Doug

Response:

I kept all meats naked while in induction–naked chicken breasts, naked pork chops, naked steak/roast. Just some of the herbs and spices we like and then grill it outside or with George Foreman. That makes it sooo easy and whenever we want something else, like for dessert we have diet rootbeer with a jigger of heavy cream (just like a rootbeer float). If we get hungry, we find it is because we had too many carbs. For instance, I always keep a cauliflower and broccoli raw and bite-sized and dip into some Ranch salad dressing made with heavy cream and mayonnaise. After a few weeks of induction, we have some packaged gravy with some of the meats. I also make chili with mushrooms instead of beans. Have not had a break in ketosis. I make stew from meat, gravy, and zucchini. I adhered to the saying, "Corn is for cattle; potatoes are for pigs." My husband and I do not worry about the scales. The only need for panic would be if we broke ketosis and we never have. I think about the doctor telling me if I don’t get my triglycerides down, I could get pancreatic cancer (from which my grandfather died). Val in Boise

Response:

After a few weeks of induction, we have some packaged gravy with some of the meats. I also make chili with mushrooms instead of beans. Have not had a break in ketosis.

Hey Val….do you feel like sharing your Chili recipe? I would love to have it… Corky Hightower Spring, TX Atkins since 03/31/03 189/170/150

Response:

Pancreatic Cancer Do Enzymes help/ any imput Bovine Cartillage

admin — Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Please answer to my email if possible just looking for best alternatives for Pancreatic Cancer

Response:

Please answer to my email if possible just looking for best alternatives for Pancreatic Cancer

Ask the oncologist about Pancreatic Enzymes, they are available in health food stores. Bovine Cartilage (and shark) http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/News/shark.html A 1996 videotape distributed free-of-charge by Lane Labs contained testimonials from three cancer survivors and from several physicians who "have come to trust the effectiveness of this all natural therapy." Dr. Lane, who narrated the tape, stated that nine of the 29 "terminal" patients in the Cuban study had died within four months but the rest were alive after four years [6]. But early in 1996, John F. Prudden, M.D., a former associate professor of surgery at Columbia University’s College of Physicians and Surgeons who had conducted research on bovine cartilage for more than 40 years, stated that all of the patients had died. In the April 1996 issue of The Townsend Letter, Prudden also noted that in 1983, he had taught Dr. Lane how to extract the cartilage from animals to be used as a food supplement [2]. HTH J