Talk Cancer

Question:

listmanager- shouldnt this thread be directed to one of the political discussion groups????

AMEN! Dave D

Response:

listmanager- shouldnt this thread be directed to one of the political discussion groups????

Response:

Since some people have bought the fear campaign and believe plutonium will pollute their gardens due to Cassini, I’m posting this text from the late Carl Sagan. It concerns the launch of Galileo, which also carried plutonium. Sagan was not exactly a fan of nuclear energy. This is the last I’m posting on this subject in this newsgroup. Those interested should check out the complete text here: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/rtg/saganframes.htm "What are the actual dangers concerning Galileo’s plutonium? First of all, it can’t explode. Given the configuration and amount of plutonium, there is no conceivable danger of a nuclear explosion. Secondly, if the Challenger explosion happened all over again with Galileo, there would be no plutonium danger. It would fall to Earth in solid lumps contained within their protective shields. Nobody would breathe it. The danger comes when the plutonium is ground down into very tiny breathable particles, or when it’s vaporized — converted into atoms. Are there any plausible circumstances in which this could happen? There are some failure modes — explosions just after launch, for example, in which pieces of metal, improbably, go sheering through the protective graphite shields and iridium clads that surround the lumps of plutonium — that I’ll ignore here because they release much less plutonium than the most worrisome potential failure: the possibility that the plutonium is vaporized during a fiery accidental reentry of Galileo into the Earth’s atmosphere. On its second pass by the Earth, Galileo is scheduled to miss our planet by as little as 200 miles. What if the trajectory is a little bit off and it hits the Earth? Then, entering the Earth’s atmosphere at 30,000 miles per hour, it might burn up; it’s not guaranteed, it may even be unlikely, but there’s a chance that all 50 pounds of plutonium would be vaporized. Some of the plutonium would quickly settle out; some of it would be carried widely by the winds and the general circulation of the Earth’s atmosphere. It would be enormously diluted in the air. Some people would breathe in more plutonium and some less over the next 50 years, but no one is likely to get as much radiation from this source as in a single dental X-ray. But there’s a tiny chance that you can get cancer from such an X-ray. In our ignorance, we don’t know what these low radiation doses would do. In the worst case, you might have an incremental chance of around one in 10 million of getting cancer were all of Galileo’s plutonium to vaporize in the upper air. That’s the equivalent of producing bone and other cancers in roughly a thousand people worldwide. Or there might be no health effects at all. We simply don’t know. (Remember, these people are at risk only if, improbably, Galileo burns up in the Earth’s atmosphere on its way back from Venus.)" — Lou Minatti                    |  Visit the new home of (remove the "k" to respond)    |  Strange Foreign Objects, http://www.skepticult.org      |  and the Psychic Challenge.

Response:

1.  Spells badly.  Paid little attention to detail in the composing of this post.

  1. Uses the argument that because someone spells poorly that their argument is automatically worthless. Is this english class?   2. Argues hopelessly about a subject that has nothing to do with subject of this news group. *starts to realize he’s a hypocrat by posting this.* 2.  Resorts to ad hominem attacks.

  3. Gee, isn’t this what your doing right now? 3.  Brings up meaningless and illogical point: that there is radiation already in the world.  That is not a reason to risk the release of more radiation into the atmosphere.  If your house is dirty, is that a reason to be a slob?

 4. What does radiation have to do with a dirty house? 4.  Says chance of a problem occuring is "next to 0" thus showing a disregard for or lack of familiarity with the facts.  To begin with, the Titan IV rocket has a history of blowing up on the launch pad.  That alone brings the risk significantly above 0.

 5. Titan IV rocket? isn’t that a new variety of mustard?                                                 Donald Thompson

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The lawsuit that the green party in Hawaii filed has been killed by a very good Fed. Judge who belives NASA, not someone who doesn’t realy known what they were talking about. in other news, congress has been passing a budget that will completely eliminate federal debt by 2002. no negative comments, please, you folks don’t really know what you are talking about. only five years to federal solvency.

That is for the U.S. federal *deficit*, not the debt, which amounts to trillions of dollars. They are patting themselves on their backs for claiming they may be able to live within a budget by then. Nothing is ever said about paying off what is owed. I don’t know what is more shameful, the spin the President and Congress are hurling at us, or the overall simian attitude of the general population for accepting all this. Sigh. But a friend once told me the world is run by simps, and we just have to deal with it. — John "May you live to be a hundred years with one extra to repent."                                               — an old Irish toast . Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a gardener,  I care deeply about my little patch of ground, and I care about  the garden this world is and could be.  This coming Monday,  October 13, the  government is planning to launch a vehicle, the Cassini,  into space that will  be carrying over 70 pounds of plutonium.   One microscopic particle in the  lungs is enough to guarantee lung cancer. Wrong. Who told you this?  We are assured that is a completely  safe thing to do, but then so was the launch of the Challenger.  Should the  Cassini blow up,  it would be enough to destroy the human race — and with  them,  gardeners.  I actually can’t believe this Dr. Strangelovian idea ever  got this far! I see another person has fallen for this scare scam. We’ve been launching plutonium-powered spacecraft for decades, yet a tiny minority of anti-science wackos has managed to frighten people over Cassini. That is sad. Fact is, Cassini is a deep-space craft, and the only source of reliable energy at the distance it is traveling is nuclear. Solar will not work. I urge all those fearful, anti-science people to bury their heads in the sand during the launch – just to give them that added protection. –The Plutonium fuel on Cassini is mixed into a ceramic material and

pelletized. Even if the whole thing blew up at launch, the pellets would, at worst, be reduced to BB size pieces and fall into the ocean.   It is easy to fear what you don’t understand. Some will work to find the truth, others will be content to wring their hands.   K. Smith To discourage spammers, I have added to my address. To reply, remove the "gold".

Response:

Lose your booth? Lose your capability for rational thought?

Science is full of instances where its "rational thought" left a pretty sorry wake–take eugenics, or a one-time AEC proposal that would have retrenched the Panama Canal with A-Bombs; take the overuse of pesticides if you like. Genetic engineering is new but it will also have its "Chernobyl." I’m not saying that I necessarily oppose the space shot. Rather, I oppose the attitude of unswerving faith by some in the scientific community who believe that this "rationality" somehow protects them from error. It’s almost religious-like.   -Paul

Response:

The lawsuit that the green party in Hawaii filed has been killed by a very good Fed. Judge who belives NASA, not someone who doesn’t realy known what they were talking about. in other news, congress has been passing a budget that will completely eliminate federal debt by 2002. no negative comments, please, you folks don’t really know what you are talking about. only five years to federal solvency.

I know that’s not your normal posting style, do you realize how that sounded? Any comment is open to other comments, pro or negative. You made a comment. The budget may or may not be balanced (the fed has a way of playing with things to make a liability seem an asset) but the debt won’t possibly be affected to any great extent in that short a time. With all due respect, a group of experienced economists can look at the same data and come to differing conclusions. To say you have it right and no one else knows what they are talking about just makes you look bad. — Sites to help with the fight against SPAM and UCE Abuse.net: Home Page — http://www.abuse.net/ Report abuse Fight Spam on the Internet! — http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ Net Abuse Bookmarks — http://www.teleport.com/~atari/net-abuse.htm

Response:

I urge all those fearful, anti-science people to bury their heads in the sand during the launch – just to give them that added protection. Sounds like those nuclear-power advocates who used to hang out at the airports around 1979. "No problems, ever." No, it sounds like someone fed up with anti-science wackos. Lose your booth?

Lose your capability for rational thought? — The Sonnier Brothers Band: http://www.concentric.net/~slaroche/SONNIER.HTM "Nah nah nah, gonna have a good time!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a gardener,  I care deeply about my little patch of ground, and I care about  the garden this world is and could be.  This coming Monday,  October 13, the  government is planning to launch a vehicle, the Cassini,  into space that will  be carrying over 70 pounds of plutonium.   One microscopic particle in the  lungs is enough to guarantee lung cancer.  We are assured that is a completely  safe thing to do, but then so was the launch of the Challenger.  Should the  Cassini blow up,  it would be enough to destroy the human race — and with  them,  gardeners.  I actually can’t believe this Dr. Strangelovian idea ever  got this far! If this concerns you,  you can call your senators and congressperson FREE at  1-888-723-5246.  When the operator answers just say, "Senator (or  Western Union will send 3 telegrams to Bill, Hillary, and Al and charge you  $9.95 if you dial 1-888-NO-CASSINI.   It’s probably cheaper just to call the  White House and leave a message. L. M. Rose, Spokane, zone 5 "Set the table, but don’t surprise the cat."

More radioactive material than that falls on the earth every ten seconds. All you whackos should get your facts straight. Maybe we should just move back into caves and keep our organic, bug-infested gardens just outside the door.

Response:

I see another person has fallen for this scare scam. We’ve been launching plutonium-powered spacecraft for decades, yet a tiny minority of anti-science wackos has managed to frighten people over Cassini. I urge all those fearful, anti-science people to bury their heads in the sand during the launch – just to give them that added protection. Sounds like those nuclear-power advocates who used to hang out at the airports around 1979. "No problems, ever."

No, it sounds like someone fed up with anti-science wackos. — The Sonnier Brothers Band: http://www.concentric.net/~slaroche/SONNIER.HTM "Nah nah nah, gonna have a good time!"

Response:

The lawsuit that the green party in Hawaii filed has been killed by a very good Fed. Judge who belives NASA, not someone who doesn’t realy known what they were talking about.

in other news, congress has been passing a budget that will completely eliminate federal debt by 2002. no negative comments, please, you folks don’t really know what you are talking about. only five years to federal solvency.

Response:

I urge all those fearful, anti-science people to bury their heads in the sand during the launch – just to give them that added protection. Sounds like those nuclear-power advocates who used to hang out at the airports around 1979. "No problems, ever." No, it sounds like someone fed up with anti-science wackos.

Lose your booth?   -Paul

Response:

I see another person has fallen for this scare scam. We’ve been launching plutonium-powered spacecraft for decades, yet a tiny minority of anti-science wackos has managed to frighten people over Cassini. I urge all those fearful, anti-science people to bury their heads in the sand during the launch – just to give them that added protection.

Sounds like those nuclear-power advocates who used to hang out at the airports around 1979. "No problems, ever."   -Paul

Response:

The top foot of soil on the typical suburban residential property contains a couple of pounds of uranium. Can you provide the source for the uranium information?

The average concentration of uranium in soil is about 2 ppm http://ceas.rochester.edu:8080/ee/399Projects/TMIStudy/TMIUranium.html The top foot of soil in a 1/2 acre yard has a mass of about 1000 tonnes.  1000 tonnes x 2e-6 = 2 kilograms of uranium. Adjust this for the size of your yard, density of soil, and local variations in uranium content.  Soil derived from granite or uranium-rich black shales may contain much more uranium. Uranium and thorium are surprisingly abundant in the Earth’s continental crust.  The energy released by completely fissioning the uranium and thorium (including U238 and Th232) in a kilogram of average crustal rock is about the same as the combustion energy from burning 30 kilograms of coal.         Paul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article The lawsuit that the green party in Hawaii filed has been killed by a very good Fed. Judge who belives NASA, not someone who doesn’t realy known what they were talking about. in other news, congress has been passing a budget that will completely eliminate federal debt by 2002. no negative comments, please, you folks don’t really know what you are talking about. only five years to federal solvency.

Yeah!  And I believe in the Great Pumpkin, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy!  

Response:

As a gardener,  I care deeply about my little patch of ground, and I care about  the garden this world is and could be.  This coming Monday,  October 13, the  government is planning to launch a vehicle, the Cassini,  into space that will  be carrying over 70 pounds of plutonium.   One microscopic particle in the  lungs is enough to guarantee lung cancer.  

Wrong. Who told you this?  We are assured that is a completely  safe thing to do, but then so was the launch of the Challenger.  Should the  Cassini blow up,  it would be enough to destroy the human race — and with  them,  gardeners.  I actually can’t believe this Dr. Strangelovian idea ever  got this far!

I see another person has fallen for this scare scam. We’ve been launching plutonium-powered spacecraft for decades, yet a tiny minority of anti-science wackos has managed to frighten people over Cassini. That is sad. Fact is, Cassini is a deep-space craft, and the only source of reliable energy at the distance it is traveling is nuclear. Solar will not work. I urge all those fearful, anti-science people to bury their heads in the sand during the launch – just to give them that added protection. Sorry for the off-topic post, but this Cassini fearmongering makes me angry. — The Sonnier Brothers Band: http://www.concentric.net/~slaroche/SONNIER.HTM "Nah nah nah, gonna have a good time!"

Response:

 If they think that they live in a world that is totaly free of any kind of radation, they are sadly mistaken. The top foot of soil on the typical suburban residential property contains a couple of pounds of uranium. Also, most phosphate fertilizers are contaminated with radium; the total world annual radiation dose from this source is about half that of the cumulative world dose from the Chernobyl accident.    Paul

Can you provide the source for the uranium information? Sarah. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

The lawsuit that the green party in Hawaii filed has been killed by a very good Fed. Judge who belives NASA, not someone who doesn’t realy known what they were talking about. You want to learn the TRUE FACTS of this Deep Space Probe, then check out sci.astro.am.

Response:

 If they think that they live in a world that is totaly free of any kind of radation, they are sadly mistaken.

The top foot of soil on the typical suburban residential property contains a couple of pounds of uranium. Also, most phosphate fertilizers are contaminated with radium; the total world annual radiation dose from this source is about half that of the cumulative world dose from the Chernobyl accident.         Paul

Response:

The chance of anything happing to those power supplys is next to ‘0′, plus we’ve already sent some of them into space, two probes are already outside of our solar system, the next one is right now in orbit around Jupiter. If they think that they live in a world that is totaly free of any kind of radation, they are sadly mistaken. They are total Fools too.

1.  Spells badly.  Paid little attention to detail in the composing of this post. 2.  Resorts to ad hominem attacks.   3.  Brings up meaningless and illogical point: that there is radiation already in the world.  That is not a reason to risk the release of more radiation into the atmosphere.  If your house is dirty, is that a reason to be a slob? 4.  Says chance of a problem occuring is "next to 0" thus showing a disregard for or lack of familiarity with the facts.  To begin with, the Titan IV rocket has a history of blowing up on the launch pad.  That alone brings the risk significantly above 0.  

Response:

As a gardener,  I care deeply about my little patch of ground, and I care about the garden this world is and could be.  This coming Monday,  October 13, the government is planning to launch a vehicle, the Cassini,  into space that will be carrying over 70 pounds of plutonium.   One microscopic particle in the lungs is enough to guarantee lung cancer.  We are assured that is a completely safe thing to do, but then so was the launch of the Challenger.  Should the Cassini blow up,  it would be enough to destroy the human race — and with them,  gardeners.  I actually can’t believe this Dr. Strangelovian idea ever got this far!

From what little I’ve read about the generator used by Cassini, the plutonium is not a 70lb "hunk", but rather many small pieces, each embedded in ceramic. If disaster strikes, your implied "cloud of fine plutonium particles" doesn’t sound plausible.  More like, a "hail of plutonium-in-ceramic gravel".  Much easier to recover, and kinda hard to inhale.  Bad yes; Chernobyl II, probably not. It’s easy to focus on the Chernobyl-scale disasters-that-might-be.  Personally, I’m far more concerned about overuse of pesticides and fertilizers on suburban lawns, by the overuse of antibiotics that leads to drug-resistant microbes, the slow but steady erosion of wild areas around the world, by (IMO) misguided use of genetic manipulation to add Bt to crop plants, by global climate changes due to carbon-dioxide & methane & freon emissions, etc etc. The wonder isn’t that some Floridians are sleepless as Cassini launch nears, but that most of us sleep well every night.  –Steve —  sufficiently clever definitions of         | Massachusetts Language Lab  "feature" and "expected behaviour".        | USDA Zone 5, more or less

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I love the smell of plutonium in the morning!

Response:

The chance of anything happing to those power supplys is next to ‘0′, plus we’ve already sent some of them into space, two probes are already outside of our solar system, the next one is right now in orbit around Jupiter. If they think that they live in a world that is totaly free of any kind of radation, they are sadly mistaken. They are total Fools too.

Response:

As a gardener,  I care deeply about my little patch of ground, and I care about  the garden this world is and could be.  This coming Monday,  October 13, the  government is planning to launch a vehicle, the Cassini,  into space that will  be carrying over 70 pounds of plutonium.   One microscopic particle in the  lungs is enough to guarantee lung cancer.  We are assured that is a completely  safe thing to do, but then so was the launch of the Challenger.  Should the  Cassini blow up,  it would be enough to destroy the human race — and with  them,  gardeners.  I actually can’t believe this Dr. Strangelovian idea ever  got this far! If this concerns you,  you can call your senators and congressperson FREE at  1-888-723-5246.  When the operator answers just say, "Senator (or  Western Union will send 3 telegrams to Bill, Hillary, and Al and charge you  $9.95 if you dial 1-888-NO-CASSINI.   It’s probably cheaper just to call the  White House and leave a message.   L. M. Rose, Spokane, zone 5 "Set the table, but don’t surprise the cat."

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