Talk Cancer

Question:

Brian Humphreys wrote ; – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we unwrapped it there was an odour from it. In the evening I fell asleep on it for approx 4 hours and then went to bed and next day parts of my back and legs were red and hot. I went to my doctor who said it was similar to a chemical burn and over the next few days the skin on my back peeled. The odour from the sofa was so strong that we had to leave the windows open to air the room but the retailer disputes a connection between the odour and the peeling skin. The sofa is UK made and is a 3-seater of internal wooden construction with padding, washable cotton covers, and large removable foam-filled cushions for the back and seats. Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in mind that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been given off either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden parts of the sofa. We have the sofa and clothing separately wrapped so there is a chance of having tests done, but tests for what ??

Formaldehyde ? Mike McCombs

Response:

We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we unwrapped it there was an odour from it. In the evening I fell asleep on it for approx 4 hours and then went to bed and next day parts of my back and legs were red and hot. I went to my doctor who said it was similar to a chemical burn and over the next few days the skin on my back peeled. The odour from the sofa was so strong that we had to leave the windows open to air the room but the retailer disputes a connection between the odour and the peeling skin. The sofa is UK made and is a 3-seater of internal wooden construction with padding, washable cotton covers, and large removable foam-filled cushions for the back and seats. Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in mind that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been given off either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden parts of the sofa. We have the sofa and clothing separately wrapped so there is a chance of having tests done, but tests for what ?? Brian Humphreys – UK

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Why bother with tests ? just get store to take it back.They Will take it back wont they?

Response:

We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we

…snip… Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in mind that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been given off either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden parts of

What about a coating, like "Scotchgard", on the fabric.  The plastic wrapping may have prevented a fabric protectant to not outgas properly. Essentially, I think it outgassed on you.  You may have noticed a "crispy" feel to the fabric as well.  Whenever we get new furniture we don’t functionally use it for a day or two until any odors have subsided. Eddy

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Im not a chemist, but the foam padding, especially if incorrectly compounded, or exposed to agents that attack it, is known to release formeldehyde, and similar agents.  Being in the photo business, which until recently used formeldehyde in many solutions, I can tell you that some peolple have a nasty reaction to it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we unwrapped it there was an odour from it. In the evening I fell asleep on it for approx 4 hours and then went to bed and next day parts of my back and legs were red and hot. I went to my doctor who said it was similar to a chemical burn and over the next few days the skin on my back peeled. The odour from the sofa was so strong that we had to leave the windows open to air the room but the retailer disputes a connection between the odour and the peeling skin. The sofa is UK made and is a 3-seater of internal wooden construction with padding, washable cotton covers, and large removable foam-filled cushions for the back and seats. Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in mind that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been given off either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden parts of the sofa. We have the sofa and clothing separately wrapped so there is a chance of having tests done, but tests for what ?? Brian Humphreys – UK

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we unwrapped it there was an odour from it. In the evening I fell asleep on it for approx 4 hours and then went to bed and next day parts of my back and legs were red and hot. I went to my doctor who said it was similar to a chemical burn and over the next few days the skin on my back peeled. The odour from the sofa was so strong that we had to leave the windows open to air the room but the retailer disputes a connection between the odour and the peeling skin. The sofa is UK made and is a 3-seater of internal wooden construction with padding, washable cotton covers, and large removable foam-filled cushions for the back and seats. Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in mind that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been given off either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden parts of the sofa. We have the sofa and clothing separately wrapped so there is a chance of having tests done, but tests for what ?? Brian Humphreys – UK

Let’s assume that there is some chemical issue with the sofa. Here are the 2 likely substances: 1. formaldehyde 2. fabric protection — either waterbased or solvent (such as Dupont’s teflon called Soil Sheild, Guardsman’s Fabricoate, Mohawk’s Fabricare, 3M’s Scotchguard, etc.) If you paid for fabric protection (a good thing to invest in even rhough it voids any warranty on any fabric unless applied by the fabric mill or the mfg of the upholstery), then call the company that made the fabric protection and get an MSDS (Material Saftey Data Sheet) faxed to your doctor. If you did not get fabric protection, then you should call the mfg of your sofa and get MSDS’s for all the glues and adhesives used in the construction and manufacture of the sofa and the fabric itself. It is possible that you had an allegeic reaction to something in the sofa. All new upholstery has a "new" smell. — Daniel Shafner shafner at earthlink dot net     / `-’ )          ,,,     _.-.(           ”’

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Why, who knows what its really venting and why its venting it.    To be safe send it back.    You wouldnt expect someone else to buy a wooden item from you thats pitiful without complaining, then why should you accept one.    Send it back and complain bitterly all the way up, its amazing 8/10 times you will get a new couch and a discount for the inconveniance.     — …SPAM PROTECTION IN EFFECT…. Frank Shapiro  B.Eng Real Email is:  user is          shapiro_                        location is    yahoo.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we …snip… Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in mind that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been given off either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden parts of What about a coating, like "Scotchgard", on the fabric.  The plastic wrapping may have prevented a fabric protectant to not outgas properly. Essentially, I think it outgassed on you.  You may have noticed a "crispy" feel to the fabric as well.  Whenever we get new furniture we don’t functionally use it for a day or two until any odors have subsided. Eddy

Response:

 and large removable foam-filled cushions for the back and seats.

I would suspect that this is the source of your problem. The laws and EU directives regarding the safety of furniture in fires have radically changed over the past few years and it may be a fire retardant to which you are susceptible. Trapped inside the polythene protection. If you like to send me the name of the supplier I will see if they can offer an explanation. If they are exporting furniture to the US I would expect a fairly large Co (bearing in mind the transport costs) so I expect them to be on email at least.

Response:

We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and when we unwrapped it there was an odour from it. In the evening I fell asleep on it for approx 4 hours and then went to bed and next day parts of my back and legs were red and hot. I went to my doctor who said it was similar to a chemical burn and over the next few days the skin on my back peeled. The odour from the sofa was so strong that we had to leave the windows open to air the room but the retailer disputes a connection between the odour and the peeling skin.

Have the retailer drop his or her drawers and sit on the sofa for four hours if they are so sure! there is a chance of having tests done, but tests for what ??

A sore butt. M.F.K.

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Formaldehyde, or some similar plasticiser, would be my guess too–outgassing from the foam and condensing on your moist skin. It’s not good to breath that stuff either.  I’d put the cushions in a well-ventilated area and let them breathe for a week before bringing them back into the house.  I’d also report your experience to the agency that regulates toxic emissions.  There’s something wrong at the factory if the foam is releasing that much gas. -r :Brian Humphreys wrote ; :We had a new sofa delivered which was wrapped in polythene and :when we :unwrapped it there was an odour from it. In the evening I fell :asleep on :it for approx 4 hours and then went to bed and next day parts of :my back :and legs were red and hot. I went to my doctor who said it was :similar :to a chemical burn and over the next few days the skin on my :back :peeled. The odour from the sofa was so strong that we had to :leave the :windows open to air the room but the retailer disputes a :connection :between the odour and the peeling skin. The sofa is UK made and :is a :3-seater of internal wooden construction with padding, washable :cotton :covers, and large removable foam-filled cushions for the back :and seats. : :Can anyone suggest what can cause such a strong odour bearing in :mind :that the fabric was dry to the touch. Chemicals may have been :given off :either from the foam, the covers, or from the internal wooden :parts of :the sofa. We have the sofa and clothing separately wrapped so :there is a :chance of having tests done, but tests for what ?? : :Formaldehyde ? :Mike McCombs : —         You don’t need to be a soldier to be a good man.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all those who responded – thanks tremendously – this news group has been an inspiration. I didn’t want to take up too much space, but the sofa was delivered end July and I’ve argued with the store and their customer services many times, just asking that they take the sofa away and give me my money back. They will not budge – I even had a lawyer send them a letter, but to no use. I am British born-and-bred and I can categorically say that service here in GB is appalling. I now have to take them to court, but my lawyer says I will have to prove the connection. It will mean testing for residues in the fabric, in the clothes I wore, and then getting a medical report about how skin is affected. The law in the UK is that if the total claim is less than 3000 pounds then I have to pay my own costs even if I win. Needless to say the total claim IS less than 3000 pounds which is why the store believes they can get away with it. The emails from this news group have given me enough confidence to contact a lab. To those of you who mentioned fabric protectors  it had indeed been Scotchguard protected. The supplier of the sofa even copied to my lawyer a letter from 3M. The letter says : "Scotchguard protector is a product which can be applied to textiles or carpets. The active ingredient (which is based on Fluorochemical technology) is applied to the substrate by dissolving it in a liquid solution, which then dries to leave an invisible, abrasion-resistant coating around the protected fabric fibres. Intrinsic to the products design, Scotchguard protector becomes firmly bonded to the fibres of the treated substrate and is resistant to abrasion. This means that once the treatment has dried, it is not easily removed by rubbing or accidental contact and therefore, I would not expect the Fluorochemical solids to become airborne and be inhaled, nor for transfer to the skin to occur. Fabric treated with Scotchguard protector has been extensively tested for possible adverse effects to human health and it has been shown to be non-irritating and non-sensitising". I didn’t previously mention fabric protector because I didn’t want to prejudice any ideas out there. It sounds as though the second most likely cause is formaldehyde, something which other people had also suggested along with lacquers and glues in the wood. Whatever it was, the proof will be found in the clothing which I have kept safely wrapped up. What annoys me is that the manufacturer obviously made this sofa in a hurry, wrapped it up, and sent it on its way. No-one has the right to deliver a product in a condition like this. We have a 2-year-old who used to fall asleep on our previous sofa. Fortunately this happened to me (42 year old male) and I can bide my time, but if it had happened to one of my kids Thanks again, Brian Humphreys – UK

Hi Brian,   I work with foam on a daily basis and I would find it very unlikely that formaldehyde is the culprit.  Almost all furniture foam used today is polyurethane foam.  Formaldehyde is not usually found in this foam unless it is put in on accident.  I would look for amine compounds. Amines are used as catalysts to make the foam cure faster.  If the foam was not compounded correctly it could have too much amine catalyst and this will come out of the foam.  Amines are basic (the opposite of an acid) and can burn the skin.  I would contact the manufacturer of the sofa and tell them your problem.  They will probably be more understanding than the store as the foam is made in batches and yours is probably not the only sofa with the problem.  Multiple problem sofas would equal   "class action lawsuit" in the US and mean big bucks.  Hope you find the problem.  If you have any more questions about foams you can e-mail me or try posting on the polymers newsgroup. John

Response:

To all those who responded – thanks tremendously – this news group has been an inspiration. I didn’t want to take up too much space, but the sofa was delivered end July and I’ve argued with the store and their customer services many times, just asking that they take the sofa away and give me my money back. They will not budge – I even had a lawyer send them a letter, but to no use. I am British born-and-bred and I can categorically say that service here in GB is appalling. I now have to take them to court, but my lawyer says I will have to prove the connection. It will mean testing for residues in the fabric, in the clothes I wore, and then getting a medical report about how skin is affected. The law in the UK is that if the total claim is less than 3000 pounds then I have to pay my own costs even if I win. Needless to say the total claim IS less than 3000 pounds which is why the store believes they can get away with it. The emails from this news group have given me enough confidence to contact a lab. To those of you who mentioned fabric protectors  it had indeed been Scotchguard protected. The supplier of the sofa even copied to my lawyer a letter from 3M. The letter says : "Scotchguard protector is a product which can be applied to textiles or carpets. The active ingredient (which is based on Fluorochemical technology) is applied to the substrate by dissolving it in a liquid solution, which then dries to leave an invisible, abrasion-resistant coating around the protected fabric fibres. Intrinsic to the products design, Scotchguard protector becomes firmly bonded to the fibres of the treated substrate and is resistant to abrasion. This means that once the treatment has dried, it is not easily removed by rubbing or accidental contact and therefore, I would not expect the Fluorochemical solids to become airborne and be inhaled, nor for transfer to the skin to occur. Fabric treated with Scotchguard protector has been extensively tested for possible adverse effects to human health and it has been shown to be non-irritating and non-sensitising". I didn’t previously mention fabric protector because I didn’t want to prejudice any ideas out there. It sounds as though the second most likely cause is formaldehyde, something which other people had also suggested along with lacquers and glues in the wood. Whatever it was, the proof will be found in the clothing which I have kept safely wrapped up. What annoys me is that the manufacturer obviously made this sofa in a hurry, wrapped it up, and sent it on its way. No-one has the right to deliver a product in a condition like this. We have a 2-year-old who used to fall asleep on our previous sofa. Fortunately this happened to me (42 year old male) and I can bide my time, but if it had happened to one of my kids Thanks again, Brian Humphreys – UK

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Call the retailer and ask if the warranty is voided if you let your brother-in-law, the attorney, borrow your sofa for a few days. — To reply, delete  88  from displayed email address.

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What annoys me is that the manufacturer obviously made this sofa in a hurry, wrapped it up, and sent it on its way. No-one has the right to deliver a product in a condition like this.

I helped a friend pick up a chair from Jerome’s, a local furniture maker, a couple years ago. By the time we got it to her house, inside, and unwrapped, the plastic surrounding it had a LOT of condensation on it. We figured it was the Scotchgarding which had JUST been applied. She let it sit over the weekend before her husband used it. He had no problems. I, on the other hand, got some of it on my hands and shirt. I washed it off my hands and forgot about it until your story yesterday. Though I had no problems either, it might have been different had I _slept_ in it. [Actually, my friend's husband died of lung cancer a few months later, a smoker to the bitter (and I mean BITTER) end. I think about that every time I see someone mention a humidor here.] We have a 2-year-old who used to fall asleep on our previous sofa. Fortunately this happened to me (42 year old male) and I can bide my time, but if it had happened to one of my kids…

There’s a chance that another person might not have been affected by it. You never know. Was there any lasting damage or was it just a rash for a few days?  Maybe you should have gone into your shop immediately upon rising and packed yourself in some sawdust to soak up and draw out the chemicals. (We had to get wood into this conversation somehow, eh?)               I survived the California Monsoons of ‘98   http://diversify.com/ljaques     Graphic Design for Print & Websites

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