Talk Cancer

Question:

Toxins, no doubt.  With the liver, it’s so often those darn toxins. .. Actually, milk thistle is a reasonable thing to take, as best I can determine.  at least in terms of it being beneficial to the liver.  It If it is a reasonable thing, why do you feel a need to take a pot-short at it anyway ("those darn toxins")? Some sort of a compulsion?

Why take something that is not needed?

Response:

Maybe that Milk Thistle suggestion didn’t work.  I recently came upon the "weak liver lady"  on a Liver Forum (as opposed to the Alternative Medicine Forum,,,some people go from doctor to doctor; with the internet, they can from forum to forum). Now it now looks a three-day fast to "cleanse the liver" is in her future, though a respondent suggested an organic, caffinated ciffee enema might do the trick. Should this make Starbucks happy?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science  to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches  and Buddy, Your first mistake. I am not your buddy. would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind. Your second mistake, i.e., seeing your pathology in others.

At least I am not pathological enough to want to make my kids suffer for my superstitious pathological unscientific prejudices.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science  to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches  and Buddy, Your first mistake. I am not your buddy. would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind. Your second mistake, i.e., seeing your pathology in others. At least I am not pathological enough to want to make my kids suffer for my superstitious pathological unscientific prejudices.

My prejudices are all scientific. What is your excuse?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science  to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches  and Buddy, Your first mistake. I am not your buddy. would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind. Your second mistake, i.e., seeing your pathology in others. At least I am not pathological enough to want to make my kids suffer for my superstitious pathological unscientific prejudices.

It sounds like Soft-eng wants more company amongst the worried well.  Sad, that.

Response:

Toxins, no doubt.  With the liver, it’s so often those darn toxins. .. Actually, milk thistle is a reasonable thing to take, as best I can determine.  at least in terms of it being beneficial to the liver.  It

If it is a reasonable thing, why do you feel a need to take a pot-short at it anyway ("those darn toxins")? Some sort of a compulsion?

Response:

chances are, you have been brainwashed from early childhood to believe that any MD can do no wrong.

Your lack of presumption is touching. le moo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches and Buddy, would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind. Be nice, sometimes people read these newsgroups after breakfast, such misuse of terms could make it hard to keep it down…

Mark is so filed with hate, this ng is his breakfast. He is a drug pusher, gives his kid Ritalin, organized medicine brain washed You fill in the blank. Jan Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain Are you sure my name is Richard Jacobson??   Is it or isn’t it?

Negative. I am grateful for one thing; that Richard Jacobson is not my real name. Unfortunately the Richard Jacobson that DOES live in Hawaii may not be too happy with my assuming his name for purposes of the internet especially given the recent events.  He happens to live on a different island from me. I do plan to contact him to let him know that someone may try to harass him since he is listed in the phone book. === Aloha,Rich Richard H. Jacobson Always remember to put Horace before Descarte

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches and Buddy, would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind. Be nice, sometimes people read these newsgroups after breakfast, such misuse of terms could make it hard to keep it down… Mark is so filed with hate, this ng is his breakfast. He is a drug pusher, gives his kid Ritalin, organized medicine brain washed You fill in the blank.

That blank would be between your ears. It is properly called a void. Jan, you are an anti-semetic bigot who has trouble understanding anything beyond the concepts of the sandbox. You are a coward, taking pot shots at me from behind your killfile. You refuse to engage in discussion with anyone. When an intelligent conversation is going on, you take shots at the people you hate, and thus, derail the intelligence. You do this because you cannot understand anything beyond sandbox.

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches and Buddy,

Your first mistake. I am not your buddy. would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind.

Your second mistake, i.e., seeing your pathology in others. Be nice, sometimes people read these newsgroups after breakfast, such misuse of terms could make it hard to keep it down…

I find your ilk humouous.

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches and

Buddy, would you please be kind enough to stop using the word "science"?  It involves a thing called an "open mind".  It’s nauseating to see it coming from someone with a totally closed, sealed-shut (and therefore relatively useless) mind. Be nice, sometimes people read these newsgroups after breakfast, such misuse of terms could make it hard to keep it down…

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? I find these alternative medicine/health forums so interesting as I never knew there was so much going on.  It never occurred to me that my system could be "out of balance" or that my colon needed irrigating.  Or that I should spend time in an oxygen chamber.  Not to mention remove my fillings, some of which date back to high school.   Here I am, 66 years old & haven’t done any of this stuff.  What’s wrong with me?

Nothing apparently, and you are lucky. If you had a disease that your doctor could not find a cure for, you would yourself be looking for the right solution. Naturally, some people would want to take advantage of such a search.  Other people would want to help you.  The resulting mish-mash would be what you would find during such a search. Not very different from MD’s either.  Some are good, some are bad.  Getting misdiagnosed, given the wrong medicine or surgery is not impossible.  But chances are, you have been brainwashed from early childhood to believe that any MD can do no wrong. Let’s hope you come across no real reason to learn better…

Response:

Such symptoms only become redefined as an "illness", and the sufferer a "patient", when a person  decides to seek medical advice, often just for reassurance that nothing serious is wrong.  Thus the minor and usually self-limiting symptoms of the "worried well" dominate a lot of medical practice and also provide a fruitful area for charlatans. I’ve seen it estimated that around a third of health care dollars go to treating people with no clinical condition save anxiety (and, in many cases, some type of narcissism).  I’d like to find a good reference for that estimate.  It seems a bit high to me.  But not at all crazy.

In Australia only 10-20% of the health care budget goes into general practice, where most such patients are seen.  The rest goes into hospitals, drugs, and other services. It is not unlikely that a third of general practice involves the worried well.  Add to that a significant percentage of the pharmaceutical budget, patient copayments for pharmaceuticals, and an expenditure on "alternatives" that now rivals expenditure on pharmaceuticals (but they are still too poor to do any  research), and we are talking pretty big bucks. Peter Moran – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – le moo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? I find these alternative medicine/health forums so interesting as I never knew there was so much going on.  It never occurred to me that my system could be "out of balance" or that my colon needed irrigating.  Or that I should spend time in an oxygen chamber.  Not to mention remove my fillings, some of which date back to high school.   Here I am, 66 years old & haven’t done any of this stuff.  What’s wrong with me? concatenated

Response:

I’m sure the gods will come back to punish me for my post & give me the first headache I’ve ever had in my life (really). BTW, while your all here…some gal on another alt. forum was sure she suffered from a "weak liver".  What does that mean?

It probably means she fell for some sales pitch.  I don’t think it’s a medically recognized term.  The liver has so many functions that you have to be a lot more specific.   — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.        "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants            were standing on my shoulders."  (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Response:

Sorry I don’t recall her exact question to the forum, only that she knew she had a weak liver;  Milk Thistle, however, was the answer.

Response:

Sorry I don’t recall her exact question to the forum, only that she knew she had a weak liver;  Milk Thistle, however, was the answer.

Toxins, no doubt.  With the liver, it’s so often those darn toxins. Actually, milk thistle is a reasonable thing to take, as best I can determine.  at least in terms of it being beneficial to the liver.  It may also have uses as an adjunctive therapy in patients with liver cancer.  Other analyses have found that it didn’t seem to do much, but didn’t hurt anything, either.  It may help some with cirrhosis.   — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.        "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants            were standing on my shoulders."  (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs?

Good question. Thee are two distinct groups: those who rely on science to reach medical decisions, and those who rely on anecdotes, sales pitches and tall tales. In the latter group, there are those who have real conditions such as multiple chemical sensitivity, etc. whoch they believe is a physicilogiacl condition. They deny that this is a psychosomoatic condition and, thus, refuse to seek therapy that actually treats their problems. Sometimes they get lucky and find an alternative method, which actually treats their psychosomatic symptoms with a psychosomatic treatment. Unfortunately, they do not actually treat their underlying psychological problems, but instead, push their treatment onto others. I find these alternative medicine/health forums so interesting as I never knew there was so much going on.  It never occurred to me that my system could be "out of balance" or that my colon needed irrigating.

IOW, you never heard the likes and baloney of the AltSalesCreeps and feel better for it. Or that I should spend time in an oxygen chamber.  Not to mention remove my fillings, some of which date back to high school.

Strange that you do not feel like you are falling apart. Here I am, 66 years old & haven’t done any of this stuff.  What’s wrong with me?

Having common sense is not a problem.

Response:

Such symptoms only become redefined as an "illness", and the sufferer a "patient", when a person  decides to seek medical advice, often just for reassurance that nothing serious is wrong.  Thus the minor and usually self-limiting symptoms of the "worried well" dominate a lot of medical practice and also provide a fruitful area for charlatans.

I’ve seen it estimated that around a third of health care dollars go to treating people with no clinical condition save anxiety (and, in many cases, some type of narcissism).  I’d like to find a good reference for that estimate.  It seems a bit high to me.  But not at all crazy. le moo

Response:

I’m sure the gods will come back to punish me for my post & give me the first headache I’ve ever had in my life (really). BTW, while your all here…some gal on another alt. forum was sure she suffered from a "weak liver".  What does that mean?

Response:

I’m sure the gods will come back to punish me for my post & give me the first headache I’ve ever had in my life (really). BTW, while your all here…some gal on another alt. forum was sure she suffered from a "weak liver".  What does that mean?

It works for 7 days and then has a week off?

Response:

Here I am, 66 years old & haven’t done any of this stuff.  What’s wrong with me?

appears that many of the "worried well" are also judgemental in regards to religion.

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs?

Not necessarily. David Wright is correct.   It is also very relevant that the majority of healthy people regularly  experience minor symptoms such as fatigue, headache, irritability, anxiety or mild depression, and mild musculoskeletal problems. See — http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band115/b115-4.html Such symptoms only become redefined as an "illness", and the sufferer a "patient", when a person  decides to seek medical advice, often just for reassurance that nothing serious is wrong.  Thus the minor and usually self-limiting symptoms of the "worried well" dominate a lot of medical practice and also provide a fruitful area for charlatans. One tactic of the latter is to make the sufferer feel inferior for having any symptoms at all.   You  introduce the notion of "welllness",   a kind of "superhealth"  wherein anything less than a state of euphoric  exuberant well-being and longevity is a reflection of some kind of supplement deficiency or  noxious influence  that can only be rooted out by buying this stuff or following all the instructions in that book. Peter Moran

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs? I find these alternative medicine/health forums so interesting as I never knew there was so much going on.  It never occurred to me that my system could be "out of balance" or that my colon needed irrigating.  Or that I should spend time in an oxygen chamber.  Not to mention remove my fillings, some of which date back to high school.   Here I am, 66 years old & haven’t done any of this stuff.  What’s wrong with me?

Response:

Who constitues this group?  Are these the same as hypochrondiacs?

Pretty close, although the "worried well" aren’t necessarily sure they are sick, they’re just afraid they are. I find these alternative medicine/health forums so interesting as I never knew there was so much going on.  It never occurred to me that my system could be "out of balance" or that my colon needed irrigating.  Or that I should spend time in an oxygen chamber.  Not to mention remove my fillings, some of which date back to high school.   Here I am, 66 years old & haven’t done any of this stuff.  What’s wrong with me?

Well, nothing that can’t be set to rights by reading enough fearmongering web sites.  Pretty soon you’ll know that you’re being poisoned by aspartame, your fillings, and environmental toxins, and that only a very expensive regimen of MLM-sold herbs and vitamins will give you even a fighting chance of making it to your next birthday. Oh, right, and you’ll have to have your colon irrigated too. "We are the MLM-ers.  Resistance is futile.  Prepare to be spammed."   — David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.        "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants            were standing on my shoulders."  (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Response: