Talk Cancer » Leukemia

Beta-seron site reaction

admin — Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

u can’t tell. if you are having problems there is no way to predict if your problems would be worse by not taking the novantrone. Same with the abc drugs. I live with that knowledge daily and just assume that they are helping . A leap of faith yes. — Laura "Jodi" wrote in message

news:5nyde.34085$QR1.8372@fe04.lga… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Laura" wrote in message > news:Vqudna4S7cGINevfRVn-gA@wideopenwest.com… >>it is one of those odd drugs though – you could still have new >>problems when you are on it but your problems may not be as bad as >>they would have been had you not used novantrone. > What a loop, so you don’t really know if its helping or not. >> Any problems you are currently experience may be helped with >> steroids. > Steroids don’t seem to help anymore. > Thanks for your input, > TC, > Jodi > YMMV though. >> some folks are really helped some not. Any one know of any other >> drugs to aid with an exacerbation like steroids help? >> if that is not the case please someone jump in here. >> — >> Laura >> "Jodi" wrote in message >> news:O3vde.33572$QR1.18635@fe04.lga… >>> "Robert" wrote in message >>> news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… >>>> In article , "Jodi" >>>> wrote: >>>> I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." >>> Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some >>> reason i thought the chemo would do that quickly. >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> Jodi >>> Novantrone is not, to my >>>> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard >>>> progression and in >>>> some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a >>>> good >>>> term…). >>>> I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any >>>> symptom >>>> abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it >>>> working? Who really >>>> knows? >>>> I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time >>>> between "bad >>>> periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did >>>> Novantrone in >>>> 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year >>>> episode. >>>> My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have >>>> some >>>> improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, think >>>> your time of >>>> having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t >>>> think >>>> Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my course of >>>> disease as >>>> it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do >>>> believe time is a >>>> factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Robert

Response:

Jodi wrote: > "Laura" wrote in message > news:Vqudna4S7cGINevfRVn-gA@wideopenwest.com… >> it is one of those odd drugs though – you could still have new >> problems when you are on it but your problems may not be as bad as >> they would have been had you not used novantrone. > What a loop, so you don’t really know if its helping or not.

That’s exactly the case. With Novantrone, as with the BARC drugs, the data on exacerbation/progression prevention are statistical *only*, and they in no way indicate whether or not any proposed patient will be helped by it or not… nor – because of the fairly random nature of MS – is there any way to tell if they *do* help in any given patient. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Any problems you are currently experience may be helped with >> steroids. > Steroids don’t seem to help anymore. > Thanks for your input, > TC, > Jodi > YMMV though. >> some folks are really helped some not. Any one know of any other >> drugs to aid with an exacerbation like steroids help? >> if that is not the case please someone jump in here. >> — >> Laura >> "Jodi" wrote in message >> news:O3vde.33572$QR1.18635@fe04.lga… >>> "Robert" wrote in message >>> news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… >>>> In article , "Jodi" >>>> wrote: >>>> I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." >>> Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some >>> reason i thought the chemo would do that quickly. >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> Jodi >>> Novantrone is not, to my >>>> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard >>>> progression and in >>>> some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a >>>> good term…). >>>> I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any >>>> symptom abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it >>>> working? Who really >>>> knows? >>>> I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time >>>> between "bad >>>> periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did >>>> Novantrone in >>>> 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year >>>> episode. >>>> My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have >>>> some improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, >>>> think your time of >>>> having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t >>>> think Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my >>>> course of disease as >>>> it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do >>>> believe time is a >>>> factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Robert

Response:

Jodi wrote: > Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some reason i > thought the chemo would do that quickly.

jodi, one of the things i’ve always disliked so much about M.S. treatments is that we, the patients, are forced to place a lot of emphasis on FAITH. if you’re on a D.M. and still having relapses, you have to believe that you’d probably be having more relapses without it. if your disability continues, you have to believe that it’s progressing at a slower rate than it would otherwise. in a case where someone is having frequent, severe relapses, and treatment with any of the D.M. drugs cuts the number and severity, it’s an easier situation to deal with, because you’ve got evidence of efficacy in your own life, you don’t have to take it on faith. another thing that a lot of people who are doing well on CRABs sometimes tend to forget is that lesion load has NEVER been directly correlated with disability progression. i had multiple brain lesions on my very first MRI. the first year post-dx was a rough one, but after that i settled in to a typical RR course, with good remissions and no residual disability. other people whose initial MRIs show only 1 or 2 lesions sometimes have very difficult disease courses, with residual disability after relapses, etc. novantrone, as well s the CRABs, has been clinically shown to reduce the number of active lesions on MRI. so, if active lesions still show up, the patient is back to ‘faith’ — if not for the treatment, there would/could/might have been more. i do remember that tracey was having frequent and severe relapses early on — if the number and severity has been cut down, then the treatment is working. if this doesn’t seem to be the case…time to talk to the doc again? also, with novantrone and betaseron, both of those can cause fatigue, nausea, muscle aches, etc. — tracey will have to try to separate out the side FX from the drugs, from M.S.-related fatigue, aches, vertigo, etc., to see if maybe the disease HAS been kicked back a few paces. if it was me in that situation, i’d see the novantrone treatment through and then get with the neuro and figure out which of the ‘lifetime’ dugs has the fewest side effects and the least disruption of my life. it’s possible that the neurologist is so focused on slight, tiny, un-noticeable ‘clinical benefits’ of beta and rebif over avonex or copaxone, that s/he pushes quality of life issues to the side. and yes, definitely if someone’s having constant relapses with residual disability after each one, their QOL ain’t gonna be real good, so if one or the other of the D.M.s seems more effective in that sense, it could be a good first choice. how many nvantrone doses are scheduled? 8, 12? since they’re infusing every 6 weeks instead of every 3 months, the limits will be reached sooner — it won’t last forever! with the CRABs, we’re pretty much expected TO take them ‘forever,’ or at least as close to that as possible. me personally, i’d suffer through the novantrone and deal with the side FX as best as possible, and focus more on finding something that doesn’t kick my butt all the way into the next county as a ‘regular’ D.M. like i said, that’s me! i can’t and wouldn’t want to try to ‘tell’ anyone else what to do. i’m also a different generation, i mean M.S. wise, not just age-wise. there WERE no treatments other than steroids and IVIG available to treat M.S. when i was diagnosed. the docs told me to get used to the idea — so i got used to it, LOL! which i guess made it easier to be unable to afford to self-pay for any of the D.M.s, not having them covered by straight medicare, and always coming out JUST over the allowed limit for financial assistance! so my experiences with them have been sporadic. i was working and had private insurance when beta hit the market. i was in the 2nd group of the ‘lottery winners’ which meant i ‘won’ the privilege of figuring out how to pay for beta. my insurance covered it for a trial period of 90 days. i was on it for 4 months, inclusive — took me a LONG time to pay for that last month’s worth of beta! i did clinical trials for both avonex and rebif. i got a medi-gap policy with injectables covrage AFTER my dx had already changed from RR to SPMS, but went ahead and injected copaxone anyway, as the neuro said it had neuro-protective qualities and was proven to reduce brain atrophy, in addition to its relapse reduction. injected it for about 18 months, then decided to stop, told the neuro, he argued just a tiny little bit and then agreed with my decision, one novantrone infusion, and ayy vi-ola, here we are! the best thing to have is a doctor who understands that being flat on one’s back and unable to enjoy any activities is NOT a good thing, whether it’s M.S. or M.S. TREATMENT that’s laying you out. in that situation, it’s definitely possible to have genuine dialog between doc and patient, to try to find the ‘middle ground.’ some doctors will get sort of aggressive about their patients’ feelings, which i think flat SUCKS — you know ‘ok, you feel tired all the time, is it worse than being confined to bed 24/7 would be?’ IOW, they’re worst-case scenario’ing that ‘might’ happen if you don’t use a D.M. i hate high-pressure tactics, reminds me of car salesmen and scientologists, more than medical professionals — but SOME of them are like that. a thorough, unhurried convo with the docs would be best — i know they can be short of time, but since M.S. is a lifelong disease, IMNSHO any physician who’s treating M.S. should oughta realize that since we’ve got to learn to live with it, we ant to live as well as possible, and yeah, that includes having side effect profiles that we CAN live with. M.S. sucks, life with it shouldnt’ have to. all the best to you and tracey! rose

Response:

"Laura" wrote in message

news:Vqudna4S7cGINevfRVn-gA@wideopenwest.com… >it is one of those odd drugs though – you could still have new problems >when you are on it but your problems may not be as bad as they would have >been had you not used novantrone.

What a loop, so you don’t really know if its helping or not. > Any problems you are currently experience may be helped with steroids.

Steroids don’t seem to help anymore. Thanks for your input, TC, Jodi YMMV though. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> some folks are really helped some not. Any one know of any other drugs to > aid with an exacerbation like steroids help? > if that is not the case please someone jump in here. > — > Laura > "Jodi" wrote in message > news:O3vde.33572$QR1.18635@fe04.lga… >> "Robert" wrote in message >> news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… >>> In article , "Jodi" >>> wrote: >>> I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." >> Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some reason i >> thought the chemo would do that quickly. >> Thanks for your reply. >> Jodi >> Novantrone is not, to my >>> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard progression >>> and in >>> some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a good >>> term…). >>> I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any symptom >>> abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it working? Who >>> really >>> knows? >>> I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time between >>> "bad >>> periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did Novantrone >>> in >>> 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year >>> episode. >>> My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have some >>> improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, think your >>> time of >>> having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t think >>> Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my course of >>> disease as >>> it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do believe >>> time is a >>> factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. >>> Good luck, >>> Robert

Response:

"Michael" wrote in message

news:U-idnYHdTPAOS-vfRVn-ow@qcislands.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jodi wrote: >> "Laura" wrote in message >> news:Vqudna4S7cGINevfRVn-gA@wideopenwest.com… >>> it is one of those odd drugs though – you could still have new >>> problems when you are on it but your problems may not be as bad as >>> they would have been had you not used novantrone. >> What a loop, so you don’t really know if its helping or not. > That’s exactly the case. > With Novantrone, as with the BARC drugs, the data on > exacerbation/progression prevention are statistical *only*, and they in no > way indicate whether or not any proposed patient will be helped by it or > not… nor – because of the fairly random nature of MS – is there any way > to tell if they *do* help in any given patient.

Not to be nit-pickity, but with Novantrone one must have his WBC count (among other things) measured before treatment. Its rather obvious it drops WBC’s, and thus the amount of things which can cross the BBB and cause damage. I would say, in those who dont respond to Novantrone, that its clearly another form of MS, and not the one most neuros are familiar with. My WBC count is always high. Over the normal limit, always has been, still is. Other than the times I took Novantrone, when it dropped by at least 10 fold. They even tested me for leukemia because of it once. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Any problems you are currently experience may be helped with >>> steroids. >> Steroids don’t seem to help anymore. >> Thanks for your input, >> TC, >> Jodi >> YMMV though. >>> some folks are really helped some not. Any one know of any other >>> drugs to aid with an exacerbation like steroids help? >>> if that is not the case please someone jump in here. >>> — >>> Laura >>> "Jodi" wrote in message >>> news:O3vde.33572$QR1.18635@fe04.lga… >>>> "Robert" wrote in message >>>> news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… >>>>> In article , "Jodi" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." >>>> Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some >>>> reason i thought the chemo would do that quickly. >>>> Thanks for your reply. >>>> Jodi >>>> Novantrone is not, to my >>>>> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard >>>>> progression and in >>>>> some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a >>>>> good term…). >>>>> I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any >>>>> symptom abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it >>>>> working? Who really >>>>> knows? >>>>> I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time >>>>> between "bad >>>>> periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did >>>>> Novantrone in >>>>> 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year >>>>> episode. >>>>> My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have >>>>> some improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, >>>>> think your time of >>>>> having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t >>>>> think Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my >>>>> course of disease as >>>>> it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do >>>>> believe time is a >>>>> factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. >>>>> Good luck, >>>>> Robert

Response:

`89 "Jodi" wrote in message

It may be time to start an antibiotic such as minocycline or doxycycline. Good luck. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> YMMV though. >> some folks are really helped some not. Any one know of any other drugs >> to aid with an exacerbation like steroids help? >> if that is not the case please someone jump in here. >> — >> Laura >> "Jodi" wrote in message >> news:O3vde.33572$QR1.18635@fe04.lga… >>> "Robert" wrote in message >>> news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… >>>> In article , "Jodi" >>>> wrote: >>>> I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." >>> Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some reason >>> i thought the chemo would do that quickly. >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> Jodi >>> Novantrone is not, to my >>>> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard progression >>>> and in >>>> some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a good >>>> term…). >>>> I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any symptom >>>> abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it working? Who >>>> really >>>> knows? >>>> I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time between >>>> "bad >>>> periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did >>>> Novantrone in >>>> 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year >>>> episode. >>>> My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have some >>>> improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, think your >>>> time of >>>> having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t think >>>> Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my course of >>>> disease as >>>> it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do believe >>>> time is a >>>> factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Robert

Response:

In article , "Jodi" wrote: >… Does this mean the N isn’t working? Sure is >making her sick. I know it is different with everyone, but anyone on N and >how long did it take to start helping you?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." Novantrone is not, to my knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard progression and in some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a good term…). I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any symptom abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it working? Who really knows? I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time between "bad periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did Novantrone in 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year episode. My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have some improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, think your time of having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t think Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my course of disease as it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do believe time is a factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. Good luck, Robert

Response:

"Robert" wrote in message

news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… > In article , "Jodi" > wrote: > I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping."

Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some reason i thought the chemo would do that quickly. Thanks for your reply. Jodi Novantrone is not, to my – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard progression and > in > some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a good > term…). > I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any symptom > abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it working? Who > really > knows? > I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time between > "bad > periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did Novantrone > in > 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year episode. > My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have some > improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, think your time > of > having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t think > Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my course of disease > as > it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do believe time > is a > factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. > Good luck, > Robert

Response:

I think steroids are the only thing that does that actually. Novantrone is supposed to be better than even the abcr drugs for keeping new exacerbations from happening. it is one of those odd drugs though – you could still have new problems when you are on it but your problems may not be as bad as they would have been had you not used novantrone. At least that is how I understood it. Any problems you are currently experience may be helped with steroids. YMMV though. some folks are really helped some not. Any one know of any other drugs to aid with an exacerbation like steroids help? if that is not the case please someone jump in here. — Laura "Jodi" wrote in message

news:O3vde.33572$QR1.18635@fe04.lga… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Robert" wrote in message > news:KTqde.505$SC.334@bignews6.bellsouth.net… >> In article , "Jodi" >> wrote: >> I guess it depends on what you mean by "helping." > Calming her active lesions is what i meant as helping. For some > reason i thought the chemo would do that quickly. > Thanks for your reply. > Jodi > Novantrone is not, to my >> knowledge, a "magic bullet." It is to aggressively retard >> progression and in >> some cases has effected some symptom reduction (I guess that’s a >> good >> term…). >> I took the full course of Novantrone and while I didn’t see any >> symptom >> abatement I am hoping that it will slow progression. Is it working? >> Who really >> knows? >> I didn’t have rapid progression before, my usual length of time >> between "bad >> periods" was 5 years or so. My last one was in 2001 and I did >> Novantrone in >> 2002 – 2004 so I am awaiting 2006 to see if I have another 5 year >> episode. >> My doctor did say that he had a couple of patients who *did* have >> some >> improvement in symptoms so it does happen. I, personally, think your >> time of >> having MS is a big factor. I’ve had it 21 years so I really don’t >> think >> Novantrone (or probably any med) can radically change my course of >> disease as >> it could, say, someone having it for just a short time. I do believe >> time is a >> factor. I’m not a doctor so it’s just my opinion. >> Good luck, >> Robert

Response:

Please drink at least one glass of tomato juice, grape juice or wine, orange juice, and chocolate milk, each, every day. I cant think of anything that can provide so many antioxidents in such a simple way. Avoid water as much as possible and only drink nutricious fruit juices, V-8 and chocolate milk. Seriously. Langers makes a grape juice with aditional antioxidents. Theres also orange juice, grape juice, and tomato juice, with added Vitamin D and calcium. Canadian studies show that the more fruit and veggy antioxidents are consumed the less severe the MS. And also that those who consumed the most fruits and veggies had the least risk of MS. Course, thats not pefect, else Id never had MS in the first place. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree that it sucks. I’m still having alot of attacks. Last MRI showed > about 9-10 active lesions. AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! So frusterating!! > "rose" wrote in message > news:1114961369.555868.151340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… >> Tracey wrote: >>> The Novantrone treatments are getting harder. Since I’m on >> Beta-seron >>> /Novontrone combo I’m sick ALL the time. I go for my 5th treatment >> on the >>> 5th of May. Thanks for your well wishes Rose. You take care- >>> Tracey >> that sucks, tracey. have the relapses stopped hitting you hard and >> fast, at least? th active novantrone dosing won’t last forever, but >> hopefully the benefits you get from it will continue beyond that. >> if you can get copaxone without breaking the bank, you might want to >> ask your neuro about it. it IS a more frequent needle stick, so i don’t >> know if it would be helpful with skin reactions, but i never had >> nausea, fatigue, or the flu-like symptoms while i was on copaxone. >> now that better MRI technology and disease modifying drugs are >> available, i think some neurologists tend to leave quality of life >> issues completely out of consideration when treating their M.S. >> patients. if one or more studies, small or large, seems to indicate one >> CRAB is ‘more effective’ than others, the doc will go for that one, >> because the evidence for its efficacy is ’scientific,’ whereas the side >> effects are sort of pushed to the side. >> obviously, anyone having back-to-back relapses isn’t having the >> greatest quality of life either! so if one of the CRABs really does >> seem to work better FOR YOU at preventing relapses, or making them less >> harsh, it’s improving your QOL even if the side FX kick your butt. >> but if you and the doc haven’t tried copaxone, it’s POSSIBLE that it >> would be as effective at preventing or easing relapses as betaseron is. >> no guarantee, but no guarantee that it WON’T be, either. >> i think of novantrone differently, because it does have a lifetime >> dosage limit. dennis and tam were worried about me taking novantrone — >> i suggested they think of it as taking a year out of my life in hopes >> of gaining several more. oh! i was referring to being productive and >> able about taking time off in exchange for more time, not about life >> shortening and extension. in my mind, it’s ‘allowed’ to be harsh, >> because it won’t be forever. >> but the CRABs are supposed to be forever, or at least nearly so. there >> are a lot of factors to weigh when it comes to something you’ll be >> expected to continue taking year after year. efficacy at reducing >> relapses is definitely one of those things, but so is being able to >> live with the treatment — if it comes to the point where the not-cure >> is worse than the disease, maybe fewer side FX will be more important >> than a clinically identifiable, but not noticeable to the person >> him/her/your/my-self. >> those are matters for you to give thought to, for sure, but also to >> talk about with your neuro. if the neuro’s willing to have a real >> discussion with you, it could be a win-win situation. doctors also need >> to realize their patients are more than the sum or our lab results. my >> neurologist does understand that; i think it’s too bad everyone’s >> doesn’t. >> rose

Response:

that sucks, tracey. have the relapses stopped hitting you hard and fast, at least? th active novantrone dosing won’t last forever, but hopefully the benefits you get from it will continue beyond that. I agree that it sucks. I’m still having alot of attacks. Last MRI showed about 9-10 active lesions. AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! So frusterating!! "rose" wrote in message

news:1114961369.555868.151340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tracey wrote: >> The Novantrone treatments are getting harder. Since I’m on > Beta-seron >> /Novontrone combo I’m sick ALL the time. I go for my 5th treatment > on the >> 5th of May. Thanks for your well wishes Rose. You take care- >> Tracey > that sucks, tracey. have the relapses stopped hitting you hard and > fast, at least? th active novantrone dosing won’t last forever, but > hopefully the benefits you get from it will continue beyond that. > if you can get copaxone without breaking the bank, you might want to > ask your neuro about it. it IS a more frequent needle stick, so i don’t > know if it would be helpful with skin reactions, but i never had > nausea, fatigue, or the flu-like symptoms while i was on copaxone. > now that better MRI technology and disease modifying drugs are > available, i think some neurologists tend to leave quality of life > issues completely out of consideration when treating their M.S. > patients. if one or more studies, small or large, seems to indicate one > CRAB is ‘more effective’ than others, the doc will go for that one, > because the evidence for its efficacy is ’scientific,’ whereas the side > effects are sort of pushed to the side. > obviously, anyone having back-to-back relapses isn’t having the > greatest quality of life either! so if one of the CRABs really does > seem to work better FOR YOU at preventing relapses, or making them less > harsh, it’s improving your QOL even if the side FX kick your butt. > but if you and the doc haven’t tried copaxone, it’s POSSIBLE that it > would be as effective at preventing or easing relapses as betaseron is. > no guarantee, but no guarantee that it WON’T be, either. > i think of novantrone differently, because it does have a lifetime > dosage limit. dennis and tam were worried about me taking novantrone — > i suggested they think of it as taking a year out of my life in hopes > of gaining several more. oh! i was referring to being productive and > able about taking time off in exchange for more time, not about life > shortening and extension. in my mind, it’s ‘allowed’ to be harsh, > because it won’t be forever. > but the CRABs are supposed to be forever, or at least nearly so. there > are a lot of factors to weigh when it comes to something you’ll be > expected to continue taking year after year. efficacy at reducing > relapses is definitely one of those things, but so is being able to > live with the treatment — if it comes to the point where the not-cure > is worse than the disease, maybe fewer side FX will be more important > than a clinically identifiable, but not noticeable to the person > him/her/your/my-self. > those are matters for you to give thought to, for sure, but also to > talk about with your neuro. if the neuro’s willing to have a real > discussion with you, it could be a win-win situation. doctors also need > to realize their patients are more than the sum or our lab results. my > neurologist does understand that; i think it’s too bad everyone’s > doesn’t. > rose

Response:

"Tracey" wrote in message

news:Qsade.7860$cZ6.4529@fe02.lga… >Last MRI showed about 9-10 active lesions. AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! So >frusterating!!

4 doses of Novantrone 6 weeks apart, 3 MRI’s (before N, 3 months later and 2 weeks ago) and still active lesions. The last mri’s they were different ones, but more of them. Does this mean the N isn’t working? Sure is making her sick. I know it is different with everyone, but anyone on N and how long did it take to start helping you? thanks, Jodi

Response:

Hi Tracey After a few years I also started getting severe site reactions. Necrosis in both legs and a couple of spots on the abdomen – the scarring is still visible after 5 years on Copaxone. Those gullies just don’t go away. Because I had varying reactions on occasion I ignored them as they got worse. It wasn’t consistent, but once you’ve injected there isn’t much you can do. Sometimes the pain didn’t start for days. One leg got to the stage of cellulitis, which is pretty serious – the GP said I should never have left it so long, but I thought I was just being wimpy. You should definitely get this looked at. I would seriously think about switching off betaseron before it gets worse. Dawn "Tracey" wrote in message

news:JGice.26536$Jg7.10656@fe03.lga… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all- > For any one that’s had experience with shot site reactions,(pretty much > everyone.) I have been taking interferons for the last 4 years and > dealing with the related site reactions. Let me tell you, I’ve gotten > some nasty looking site reactions. Anyway, about a month ago I took my > shot and later noticed a small reaction forming. By the next day the > reaction was very painful and I’d never seen anything like it. It had a > series of three connecting, blood red dots. About a 1/4 inch wide and > probly a 1/2 inch long. Looks like a vien brought to the surface. The > thing is.. it’s been about a month and the reaction is still there and it > is EXTREMELY PAINFUL. Now it is scabbing and it is kind of sunken in like > a valley where the red dots are. I don’t know but it has proven itself > worthy of a post. > Any help would be appreciated. > Tracey

Response:

Tracey wrote: > The Novantrone treatments are getting harder. Since I’m on Beta-seron > /Novontrone combo I’m sick ALL the time. I go for my 5th treatment on the > 5th of May. Thanks for your well wishes Rose. You take care- > Tracey

that sucks, tracey. have the relapses stopped hitting you hard and fast, at least? th active novantrone dosing won’t last forever, but hopefully the benefits you get from it will continue beyond that. if you can get copaxone without breaking the bank, you might want to ask your neuro about it. it IS a more frequent needle stick, so i don’t know if it would be helpful with skin reactions, but i never had nausea, fatigue, or the flu-like symptoms while i was on copaxone. now that better MRI technology and disease modifying drugs are available, i think some neurologists tend to leave quality of life issues completely out of consideration when treating their M.S. patients. if one or more studies, small or large, seems to indicate one CRAB is ‘more effective’ than others, the doc will go for that one, because the evidence for its efficacy is ’scientific,’ whereas the side effects are sort of pushed to the side. obviously, anyone having back-to-back relapses isn’t having the greatest quality of life either! so if one of the CRABs really does seem to work better FOR YOU at preventing relapses, or making them less harsh, it’s improving your QOL even if the side FX kick your butt. but if you and the doc haven’t tried copaxone, it’s POSSIBLE that it would be as effective at preventing or easing relapses as betaseron is. no guarantee, but no guarantee that it WON’T be, either. i think of novantrone differently, because it does have a lifetime dosage limit. dennis and tam were worried about me taking novantrone — i suggested they think of it as taking a year out of my life in hopes of gaining several more. oh! i was referring to being productive and able about taking time off in exchange for more time, not about life shortening and extension. in my mind, it’s ‘allowed’ to be harsh, because it won’t be forever. but the CRABs are supposed to be forever, or at least nearly so. there are a lot of factors to weigh when it comes to something you’ll be expected to continue taking year after year. efficacy at reducing relapses is definitely one of those things, but so is being able to live with the treatment — if it comes to the point where the not-cure is worse than the disease, maybe fewer side FX will be more important than a clinically identifiable, but not noticeable to the person him/her/your/my-self. those are matters for you to give thought to, for sure, but also to talk about with your neuro. if the neuro’s willing to have a real discussion with you, it could be a win-win situation. doctors also need to realize their patients are more than the sum or our lab results. my neurologist does understand that; i think it’s too bad everyone’s doesn’t. rose

Response:

Hi all- For any one that’s had experience with shot site reactions,(pretty much everyone.) I have been taking interferons for the last 4 years and dealing with the related site reactions. Let me tell you, I’ve gotten some nasty looking site reactions. Anyway, about a month ago I took my shot and later noticed a small reaction forming. By the next day the reaction was very painful and I’d never seen anything like it. It had a series of three connecting, blood red dots. About a 1/4 inch wide and probly a 1/2 inch long. Looks like a vien brought to the surface. The thing is.. it’s been about a month and the reaction is still there and it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL. Now it is scabbing and it is kind of sunken in like a valley where the red dots are. I don’t know but it has proven itself worthy of a post. Any help would be appreciated. Tracey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tracey wrote: > Hi all- > For any one that’s had experience with shot site reactions,(pretty > much everyone.) I have been taking interferons for the last 4 years > and dealing with the related site reactions. Let me tell you, I’ve > gotten some nasty looking site reactions. Anyway, about a month ago > I took my shot and later noticed a small reaction forming. By the > next day the reaction was very painful and I’d never seen anything > like it. It had a series of three connecting, blood red dots. About > a 1/4 inch wide and probly a 1/2 inch long. Looks like a vien > brought to the surface. The thing is.. it’s been about a month and > the reaction is still there and it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL. Now it is > scabbing and it is kind of sunken in like a valley where the red dots > are. I don’t know but it has proven itself worthy of a post. Any help > would be appreciated. > Tracey

Disclaimer: I’m not a doctor and I don’t know what I’m talking about. I think you should re-post this message with "Ping: bobbyD – " in the subject header… in fact, I’ve decided to do it myself, because this sounds to me like the sort of reaction that leads to tumour necroses, and he’s lived through a *bunch* of ‘em and is still dealing with pain, scarring and other after-effects of the site-reactions he’s had.

Response:

"Michael" wrote in message

news:QYudnfSbeqSdJ-zfRVn-jg@qcislands.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tracey wrote: >> Hi all- >> For any one that’s had experience with shot site reactions,(pretty >> much everyone.) I have been taking interferons for the last 4 years >> and dealing with the related site reactions. Let me tell you, I’ve >> gotten some nasty looking site reactions. Anyway, about a month ago >> I took my shot and later noticed a small reaction forming. By the >> next day the reaction was very painful and I’d never seen anything >> like it. It had a series of three connecting, blood red dots. About >> a 1/4 inch wide and probly a 1/2 inch long. Looks like a vien >> brought to the surface. The thing is.. it’s been about a month and >> the reaction is still there and it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL. Now it is >> scabbing and it is kind of sunken in like a valley where the red dots >> are. I don’t know but it has proven itself worthy of a post. Any help >> would be appreciated. >> Tracey > Disclaimer: I’m not a doctor and I don’t know what I’m talking about. > I think you should re-post this message with "Ping: bobbyD – " in the > subject header… in fact, I’ve decided to do it myself, because this > sounds to me like the sort of reaction that leads to tumour necroses, and > he’s lived through a *bunch* of ‘em and is still dealing with pain, > scarring and other after-effects of the site-reactions he’s had.

Yep. That particular reaction doesnt mean you are predisposed for more, I dont think. But a visit to your neuro is in order. You dont want, what that might be. I had reactions that gave me slightly red, patchy, splotches all over after a warm shower. I was taken off it immediately. I called it relapsing remitting body-wide diaper rash. My neuro feared it was a predassesor to tissue necrosis. A very bad and painfull condition. It may be time to switch to Avonex or Copaxone. Rob

Response:

"Tracey" wrote in message

news:JGice.26536$Jg7.10656@fe03.lga… It had a series of three > connecting, blood red dots. About a 1/4 inch wide and probly a 1/2 inch > long. Looks like a vien brought to the surface. The thing is.. it’s been > about a month and the reaction is still there and it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL.

I just wanted to add that there isn’t a lump or anything under the spot, it felt soft. When Tracey showed it to me, i felt it, she screamed at me, lol, but i was able to tell there didn’t seem to be a lump or anything under it. The light touch did make her scream and yell at me though. Sorry sweetie. Jodi

Response:

"Jodi" wrote in message

news:RJsce.1461$cZ6.632@fe02.lga… > The light touch did make her scream and yell at me though.

By that, i meant, because it was so painful. Sorry sweetie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jodi

Response:

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:25:14 -0700, "Tracey" wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: > The thing is.. it’s been >about a month and the reaction is still there and it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL. >Now it is scabbing and it is kind of sunken in like a valley where the red >dots are. I don’t know but it has proven itself worthy of a post. >Any help would be appreciated.

Tracey, you need to have a medical person look at that. Some people can get bad reactions to the injection sites. — Joan

Response:

Rob Duncan wrote: > remitting body-wide diaper rash. My neuro feared it was a predassesor to > tissue necrosis. A very bad and painfull condition. It may be time to > switch to Avonex or Copaxone.

tracey, HAVE you ever tried copaxone? i think i remember that you were on avonex at one point, but the relapses were still hitting frequently. did your neuro think it would be the same with copaxone, or did you actually inject copaxone and have the same ineffective result? i think you should definitely for sure tell the neurologist about the reaction. even if it gets better, the doc needs to know in order to keep an eye out for it in the future. how are the novantrone treatments going? all the best, rose

Response:

"rose" wrote in message

news:1114797666.174547.110380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… > Rob Duncan wrote: >> remitting body-wide diaper rash. My neuro feared it was a > predassesor to >> tissue necrosis. A very bad and painfull condition. It may be time > to >> switch to Avonex or Copaxone. > tracey, HAVE you ever tried copaxone? i think i remember that you were > on avonex at one point, but the relapses were still hitting frequently. > did your neuro think it would be the same with copaxone, or did you > actually inject copaxone and have the same ineffective result?

I’ve never been on avonex or copaxon. I was on rebif for a year and I couldn’t continue taking it because the injections were so painful. If I had a shot in the leg… I could barely walk for the rest of the day etc. I’ve been on beta-seron ever since. > i think you should definitely for sure tell the neurologist about the > reaction. even if it gets better, the doc needs to know in order to > keep an eye out for it in the future. > how are the novantrone treatments going? > all the best, > rose

The Novantrone treatments are getting harder. Since I’m on Beta-seron /Novontrone combo I’m sick ALL the time. I go for my 5th treatment on the 5th of May. Thanks for your well wishes Rose. You take care- Tracey

Response:

"Tracey" wrote in message

sounds like necrosis to me,, but have your doc or neuro check it out,,, i still have injection site redness after my last injection in 1997,,, many years ago,,, i was told by my neuro long ago ,, that most people can handle 3 years on betaseron then they have a propensity to develop anti bodies get it looked at,,, DON’T INJECT anywhere near your sore area,, skip it on site rotation!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope you get better soon please feel free to email me if ya like to discuss this more phatbhat@ Remove telus.net bobbyD

Response:

"bobbyD" wrote in message

news:xVvce.12643$tg1.2257@edtnps84… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Tracey" wrote in message > news:JGice.26536$Jg7.10656@fe03.lga… >> Hi all- >> For any one that’s had experience with shot site reactions,(pretty much >> everyone.) I have been taking interferons for the last 4 years and >> dealing with the related site reactions. Let me tell you, I’ve gotten >> some nasty looking site reactions. Anyway, about a month ago I took my >> shot and later noticed a small reaction forming. By the next day the >> reaction was very painful and I’d never seen anything like it. It had a >> series of three connecting, blood red dots. About a 1/4 inch wide and >> probly a 1/2 inch long. Looks like a vien brought to the surface. The >> thing is.. it’s been about a month and the reaction is still there and it >> is EXTREMELY PAINFUL. Now it is scabbing and it is kind of sunken in like >> a valley where the red dots are. I don’t know but it has proven itself >> worthy of a post. >> Any help would be appreciated. >> Tracey > sounds like necrosis to me,, but have your doc or neuro check it out,,, > i still have injection site redness after my last injection in 1997,,, > many years ago,,, > i was told by my neuro long ago ,, that most people can handle 3 years on > betaseron then they have a propensity to develop anti bodies > get it looked at,,, > DON’T INJECT anywhere near your sore area,, skip it on site > rotation!!!!!!!!!!!!! > hope you get better soon > please feel free to email me if ya like to discuss this more > phatbhat@ Remove telus.net > bobbyD

Thanks BobbyD. I have been skipping the sore area completely in rotation. I geuss it has been about three years on beta-seron too. Thanks for your help and you can email me too at rubytuesday…@charter.net Thank you- take care Tracey

Response:

Whimper

admin — Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? I know. I go through the same thing every time I take Stinky to TED. It seems to bring on such a jarring change in his purrsonality- my bouncy, cheerful boy cringes in terror, gets those terrible saucer eyes, and wails in his carrier. It always devastates me. AND it always takes me longer to recover from the experience than it does him.

What is it about carriers that suddenly makes kitties so sad and expressive? Betty’s never had a bad experience at TED that I know of. I wonder why they so dislike carriers?

Response:

That might take alot of driving…. Just give them hallucenogenic drugs & let them play in traffic. Chablis was an abandoned kitty, I got her from the SPCA, they told me she was 9 wks old when I got her, but TED & I both figure 7….. Dumping kittens in a box, into a dumpster…..GRRRRRRR — Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TED thinks that maybe Leonidas had fallen asleep on a motor and the starting of the truck is what scared him in crying (but he never reacts when a vehicle is started if he isn’t in it). I still someone drove him a bit of a distance to dump him, and he thinks that is what I was doing. I can’t wait for them to call and tell me he is okay (I HATE waiting). Pine Cone was dumped at Morrow Mountain State Park near Charlotte, North Carolina. He discovered us while we were camping and charmed his way into our hearts. He’s ok most of the time with vehicles, until you get him in one. Then he acts like he thinks you are going to dump him. All of his insecurities come out and he is totally terrified. I would love to meet the jerk(s) who dumped him, preferably with the ability to dump them in return. Pam S.

I completely agree. I would adore getting my hands, albeit crippled, on those idiots. I live near a pretty busy street (it’s the main road through town), and we lose many cats on that road (well, none of mine, but you know what I mean). I’d like to take them up into the Rockies, some wild spot without a compass (maybe I’d give ‘em water) and leave them in the middle of nowhere, see how they like it. I have *never* seen a cat this lovey, especially with strangers. The first day I "found" him, he was under my flower box (it’s 10 ft wide, stands about 3 ft off the ground, and is about 1.5 2 ft wide) just talking (to no one). I was sitting on my patio, and heard this relatively quiet meow and went hunting. He came right to me, and let me pick him up (with some food coaxing) and started purring really loud. He’s been with us since. That was in October or November. He’s between 1 and 2 (did I say that before?), even TED isn’t sure.

Response:

TED thinks that maybe Leonidas had fallen asleep on a motor and the starting of the truck is what scared him in crying (but he never reacts when a vehicle is started if he isn’t in it). I still someone drove him a bit of a distance to dump him, and he thinks that is what I was doing. I can’t wait for them to call and tell me he is okay (I HATE waiting).

Pine Cone was dumped at Morrow Mountain State Park near Charlotte, North Carolina. He discovered us while we were camping and charmed his way into our hearts. He’s ok most of the time with vehicles, until you get him in one. Then he acts like he thinks you are going to dump him. All of his insecurities come out and he is totally terrified. I would love to meet the jerk(s) who dumped him, preferably with the ability to dump them in return. Pam S.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TED thinks that maybe Leonidas had fallen asleep on a motor and the starting of the truck is what scared him in crying (but he never reacts when a vehicle is started if he isn’t in it). I still someone drove him a bit of a distance to dump him, and he thinks that is what I was doing. I can’t wait for them to call and tell me he is okay (I HATE waiting). Pine Cone was dumped at Morrow Mountain State Park near Charlotte, North Carolina. He discovered us while we were camping and charmed his way into our hearts. He’s ok most of the time with vehicles, until you get him in one. Then he acts like he thinks you are going to dump him. All of his insecurities come out and he is totally terrified. I would love to meet the jerk(s) who dumped him, preferably with the ability to dump them in return. Pam S.

And to even the odds to what they did to the cat, about fifteen miles out to sea would be a good spot. Jo

Response:

Woo-Hoo! They just called, he’s awake (and not talking), he can go home anytime (and I wasn’t supposed to be able to pick him up for 3.5 hours). So, I’m off to TED to get my little baby… Smokie Darling (Annie) – all that worry (about health concerns) for naught.

Yay! I’m so happy for you both. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

I’m so glad he can come home!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well it isn’t that bad. Leonidas (the dumped cat) has never cried. EVER. He rarely even talks, except to occasionally remind me that he’d like to be let to do his business, and then it’s usually part of a yawn (like he doesn’t really care). I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). Not bad enough that he had me crying on the interstate on the way in (about 10-15 minutes), I cried all the way home. Now my neighbors (who may have been in doubt) know I’m nuts. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? Smokie Darling (Annie) My babies: http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [....] I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). I was in exactly the same position last June with Boyfriend. He’d lived here for about a year then, first too shy to come inside for about six months and another six months or so inside until he didn’t freak out with fear when I tried to touch him and I could pick him up. Fortunately, I did not have to leave him at TED’s overnight, as I decided to shut him in the house completely – for the first time – all evening and night and took up all food from about 6 pm. In the morning I put him in his carrier. He is like your lad, quite a quiet boy. From the moment he was in his carrier he cried and wowled non-stop all the way to TED. I could hardly bear it, so I know exactly how you feel. I could still hear him too, when the receptionist took him through out of sight. I didn’t cry on the drive home, but I felt like it, like all the trust we’d built up after so long might now be destroyed. I worried about him all day. When I went to pick him up, they fetched him through in his carrier and said he had been very good indeed. He was completely silent until he heard my voice asking if he was okay. Then he started..and he made so much noise on the way home that I thought he must be in terrible pain. I had to keep talking to him to say, we’ll be home very soon, to try and comfort him. I took the carrier out of the car and went into the house with it, put it on the lounge floor. He was still wowling. I opened the top. His head came up like a jack-in-the-box, with big saucer eyes and he jumped out. The moment he realised he was home, he relaxed completely. Went into the kitchen to see if there was anything in his bowl After all, the poor chap hadn’t eaten since the day before.. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? He has been a dumped cat, you say? Then he has endured much worse than a night of no-snuggle and no-rub-tummy. More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? That was something that worried me too. Yes, he did. Instantly, as soon as he got home. Have you got your lad back yet? How is he? Don’t worry if there is a little bleeding, that’s normal. He’ll be fine very soon, and enjoy being a home boy and not being controlled by testosterone. BF was a bit miserable for a couple of days, kept licking the parts involved, and he didn’t feel like going out much for about a week. After that he was fine. It didn’t affect his appetite at all, neither did he sit down very gingerly which I had imagined he would Tweed

It’s nearing 11:30 (Mountain Daylight Time), and I haven’t heard anything yet. Not even sure if he’s had his surgery. I know they’ll call me when he first wakes up (I HATE waiting) to let me know all is okay. My Barnabus wasn’t like this (the mrowing) until the second or third trip (for shots) to TED. Of course, my Barnabus (Barneybutt when he’s misbehaving) was dumped too, but was too small to remember it (his eyes weren’t even open). I did not sleep well (duh, did I say I HATE waiting?). I’m worried, but don’t want to call and be a pest for TED. Poor thing might have eaten around 17:00 (MDT) yesterday, so he *may* be hungry, but he is not a big eater. I still have trouble figuring out why anyone would have dumped him. He is so sweet, almost never claws, doesn’t talk much, loves loving (and will lie on his back in my arms), loves just to be close, will head-butt the DH and rub in his beard (he even nuzzles DH’s ear), has a wonderfully soft purr motor, he rarely fights and never instigates, he doesn’t use his outside fighting skills against anyone inside (he seems to know they are inside non-fighters), has the most absolutely beautiful blue eyes (Paul Newman Blue) that are slightly tilted up at the outside corners, he is a "smiler" when he’s content… TED thinks that maybe Leonidas had fallen asleep on a motor and the starting of the truck is what scared him in crying (but he never reacts when a vehicle is started if he isn’t in it). I still someone drove him a bit of a distance to dump him, and he thinks that is what I was doing. I can’t wait for them to call and tell me he is okay (I HATE waiting). Smokie Darling (Annie)

Response:

Purrs for Leonidas, and a few for you too. You’ll be back together again before you know it!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well it isn’t that bad. Leonidas (the dumped cat) has never cried. EVER. He rarely even talks, except to occasionally remind me that he’d like to be let to do his business, and then it’s usually part of a yawn (like he doesn’t really care). I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). Not bad enough that he had me crying on the interstate on the way in (about 10-15 minutes), I cried all the way home. Now my neighbors (who may have been in doubt) know I’m nuts. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? Smokie Darling (Annie) My babies: http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

{{{Annie}}} Sometimes it’s hell to be a kitty mommy, isn’t it? Purrs that Leonidas’ snippage goes just dandy. I’m sure he’ll forgive you immediately, or very shortly thereafter! Ginger-lyn Home Pages: http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats) http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy) http://www.i-love-cats.com/meow/glsummer/ (The Violence Against Animals in Movies Website)

Response:

[....] I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside).

I was in exactly the same position last June with Boyfriend. He’d lived here for about a year then, first too shy to come inside for about six months and another six months or so inside until he didn’t freak out with fear when I tried to touch him and I could pick him up. Fortunately, I did not have to leave him at TED’s overnight, as I decided to shut him in the house completely – for the first time – all evening and night and took up all food from about 6 pm. In the morning I put him in his carrier. He is like your lad, quite a quiet boy. From the moment he was in his carrier he cried and wowled non-stop all the way to TED. I could hardly bear it, so I know exactly how you feel. I could still hear him too, when the receptionist took him through out of sight. I didn’t cry on the drive home, but I felt like it, like all the trust we’d built up after so long might now be destroyed. I worried about him all day. When I went to pick him up, they fetched him through in his carrier and said he had been very good indeed. He was completely silent until he heard my voice asking if he was okay. Then he started..and he made so much noise on the way home that I thought he must be in terrible pain. I had to keep talking to him to say, we’ll be home very soon, to try and comfort him. I took the carrier out of the car and went into the house with it, put it on the lounge floor. He was still wowling. I opened the top. His head came up like a jack-in-the-box, with big saucer eyes and he jumped out. The moment he realised he was home, he relaxed completely. Went into the kitchen to see if there was anything in his bowl After all, the poor chap hadn’t eaten since the day before.. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy?

He has been a dumped cat, you say? Then he has endured much worse than a night of no-snuggle and no-rub-tummy. More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel?

That was something that worried me too. Yes, he did. Instantly, as soon as he got home. Have you got your lad back yet? How is he? Don’t worry if there is a little bleeding, that’s normal. He’ll be fine very soon, and enjoy being a home boy and not being controlled by testosterone. BF was a bit miserable for a couple of days, kept licking the parts involved, and he didn’t feel like going out much for about a week. After that he was fine. It didn’t affect his appetite at all, neither did he sit down very gingerly which I had imagined he would Tweed

Response:

He’ll be so happy to see you when you go to pick him up that he will forget about it all! Good luck with your baby!

Response:

Awww. Purrs for a very uneventful TED stay and a quick reunion.

Response:

Well, his bloodwork up came back great! No leukemia, no distemper, no nothing! Now I’ll just worry about him all by his lonesome, but I won’t have to worry about having to put in down (thank you, thank you, thank you).

Great news about his blood work. Purrs for him (and everyone else who needs them) and for you to make it through the next day without a nervous breakdown. Pam, Rob, and the Fayetteville Six + Calvin, the bitties, and Speedy the d-thing

Response:

I’m soooo glad his bloodwork was A-OK! Purrs for his snip and {{{{hugs}}}} to you while you miss and worry about him. Susan M Otis and Chester

Response:

aw, he’ll be fine and you’ll see him tomorrow. He’ll be so happy to see he’ll forgive you anything Jazz & his mama — Irulan from the stars we come to the stars we return from now until the end of time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well it isn’t that bad. Leonidas (the dumped cat) has never cried. EVER. He rarely even talks, except to occasionally remind me that he’d like to be let to do his business, and then it’s usually part of a yawn (like he doesn’t really care). I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). Not bad enough that he had me crying on the interstate on the way in (about 10-15 minutes), I cried all the way home. Now my neighbors (who may have been in doubt) know I’m nuts. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? Smokie Darling (Annie) My babies: http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

Response:

My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel?

Aww, I’m sure he’ll be so happy to see you when you pick him up that he’ll forgive you right away. Soothing purrs coming over for you both. You will survive. — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and introducing: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

Response:

Try to imagine his joy when you take him home. Purrs that the snip is gentle on him. MLB

Response:

Well, when we went away last weekend and boarded the cats was the first time ever since she came home with us that Molly (feral to 18 months) had been away. After four nights at the vet she came home very happy to see us, very happy to see her home and generally just very happy. She had completely forgotten that we took her there in the first place.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well it isn’t that bad. Leonidas (the dumped cat) has never cried. EVER. He rarely even talks, except to occasionally remind me that he’d like to be let to do his business, and then it’s usually part of a yawn (like he doesn’t really care). I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). Not bad enough that he had me crying on the interstate on the way in (about 10-15 minutes), I cried all the way home. Now my neighbors (who may have been in doubt) know I’m nuts. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? I know. I go through the same thing every time I take Stinky to TED. It seems to bring on such a jarring change in his purrsonality- my bouncy, cheerful boy cringes in terror, gets those terrible saucer eyes, and wails in his carrier. It always devastates me. AND it always takes me longer to recover from the experience than it does him. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Well, I don’t handle it at all well when the furbabies start that mournful rowling. I feel like I’m horribly abusive to them, but I generally don’t cry. Poor Leonidas, I worry that he might think he’s being dumped again, and that’s what is breaking my heart. Smokie Darling (Annie)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? He’ll forgive you, I’m sure. Purrs for a peaceful night and an uneventful snip. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

Well it isn’t that bad. Leonidas (the dumped cat) has never cried. EVER. He rarely even talks, except to occasionally remind me that he’d like to be let to do his business, and then it’s usually part of a yawn (like he doesn’t really care). I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). Not bad enough that he had me crying on the interstate on the way in (about 10-15 minutes), I cried all the way home. Now my neighbors (who may have been in doubt) know I’m nuts. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel? Smokie Darling (Annie) My babies: http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

Response:

My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel?

He’ll forgive you, I’m sure. Purrs for a peaceful night and an uneventful snip. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well it isn’t that bad. Leonidas (the dumped cat) has never cried. EVER. He rarely even talks, except to occasionally remind me that he’d like to be let to do his business, and then it’s usually part of a yawn (like he doesn’t really care). I took him to TED today. He cried all the way there, really loud. Then they took him and my well-worn T-shirt back to the boarding area. He has to stay overnight to be "positive" he doesn’t eat anything after 19:00 (7:00 pm). He’ll be tested for disease, then snipped, then given his shots. He cried the whole time on his way to the back. He cried when they opened the door and he could hear me (whimper). He cried as I was leaving TED’s place (I could hear my baby outside). Not bad enough that he had me crying on the interstate on the way in (about 10-15 minutes), I cried all the way home. Now my neighbors (who may have been in doubt) know I’m nuts. My poor little baby, who’s he gonna snuggle with tonight? Who’s gonna rub his tummy? More importantly, will he ever forgive me for being so cruel?

I know. I go through the same thing every time I take Stinky to TED. It seems to bring on such a jarring change in his purrsonality- my bouncy, cheerful boy cringes in terror, gets those terrible saucer eyes, and wails in his carrier. It always devastates me. AND it always takes me longer to recover from the experience than it does him. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

To startle poeple…

admin — Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"sumire" (sumire_kawab…@nospam.yahoo.co.uk) writes: > Does this also work on other occasions > but boring office meetings?

Not very indicated in the middle of grand sex… > Have you ever tried out?

Other than in meetings, yes. I practice flase notes all the time, to be ready for the max effect the next time I need to startle people;=) > > Do you also know an effective medicine > against the flu?

Yes. >I think I’ll be bedridden > before I can await your answer.

Then part one will already be done. Part two is to get someone in there to fall madly for and to stay in bed and make love for the next 48 hours:) > > My head feels like a big hurting > water melon about to be hammered apart. > How’s your health?

I’m hammering water melons just for fun, see how fine I am?;-);-);-) Kidding aside, I have always been a very healthy person. Takes a lot of health to win over leukemia, multiple fractures, and Graves:). I know it sounds like a totology, but it IS true too:) Hope you find to try that flu medicine soon!;-):):) C > Sumi

–

Response:

Those plastic "pillow" things that you sometimes get as packaging e.g when ordering stuff from Screwfix Direct etc, when gathered together, make excellent "meeting pillows"… OTS "Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message

news:cv9ogp$4hv$1@theodyn.ncf.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here is a lil song garanteed to startled poeple and tilt them good, > which I find very handy in the middle of boring office meetings, for > instance. > Now the way to go is as follows: you must sing it as LOUD as you can, > and make as many false notes as you can, trying to hit extremely high > and extremly low false notes, always singing at max volume. > Improvize a tune to shout those flase notes, on the following words: > "My momma told me > Not to put > Beans in my ears, > Beans in my ears > Beans in my ears!!" > (bis) > Works each time. Meeting Chairperson stops, everyone stays titled, jaw > dropped, and does not dare comment on your performance nor on how not > a-propos this was. Complete tilt, where all they can do next is try and > remember what they were saying just before you sang, and in so doing, > suddenly want to get to the point, realizing how stupid what they were > talking about was anyway. > After a few sentences to try and sound less stupid they usually go for "on > this note, the meeting is adjourned". > After a second or third time, usually, colleagues learned the lyrics, and > start singing it temself at appropriate moments of meeting boredom. > Very handy. > There. > Never say I never gave you nothing;-):) > C > —

Response:

"Trans-Saturnian Swan Emulsifier" (omega.po…@ntlworld.com) writes: > Those plastic "pillow" things that you sometimes get as packaging e.g when > ordering stuff from Screwfix Direct etc, when gathered together, make > excellent "meeting pillows"…

Hm. Maybe I could sell them a buck a piece at the next general meeting, and then have an early retirement;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OTS > "Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message > news:cv9ogp$4hv$1@theodyn.ncf.ca… >> Here is a lil song garanteed to startled poeple and tilt them good, >> which I find very handy in the middle of boring office meetings, for >> instance. >> Now the way to go is as follows: you must sing it as LOUD as you can, >> and make as many false notes as you can, trying to hit extremely high >> and extremly low false notes, always singing at max volume. >> Improvize a tune to shout those flase notes, on the following words: >> "My momma told me >> Not to put >> Beans in my ears, >> Beans in my ears >> Beans in my ears!!" >> (bis) >> Works each time. Meeting Chairperson stops, everyone stays titled, jaw >> dropped, and does not dare comment on your performance nor on how not >> a-propos this was. Complete tilt, where all they can do next is try and >> remember what they were saying just before you sang, and in so doing, >> suddenly want to get to the point, realizing how stupid what they were >> talking about was anyway. >> After a few sentences to try and sound less stupid they usually go for "on >> this note, the meeting is adjourned". >> After a second or third time, usually, colleagues learned the lyrics, and >> start singing it temself at appropriate moments of meeting boredom. >> Very handy. >> There. >> Never say I never gave you nothing;-):) >> C >> —

–

Response:

Here is a lil song garanteed to startled poeple and tilt them good, which I find very handy in the middle of boriong office meetings, for instance. Now the awayt to go is as follows: you must sing it as LOUD as you could, and making as many false notes as you can, trying to hit extremely high and extremly low false notes, always singing at max volume. Improvize a tune to shout on those flase notes on the following words: "My momma told me Not to put Beans in my ears, Beans in my ears Beans in my ears!!" (bis) Works each time. Meetign Chairperson stops, everyone stays titled, jaw dropped, and does not dare comment on your performance nor on how not a-propos it is. Complete tilt, where all theyc an do next is try and remember where they were, and in so doing, suddenly want to get to the point, realizing how stupid what they were talking about is anyway. After a few sentences to try and sound less stupid they usually go for "on this, the meeting is adjourned". After a second or third time, usually, colleagues learned the lyrics, and start singing it temself at appropriate moments of meetign boredom. Very handy. There. Never say I never gave you nothing;-):) C —

Response:

Here is a lil song garanteed to startled poeple and tilt them good, which I find very handy in the middle of boring office meetings, for instance. Now the way to go is as follows: you must sing it as LOUD as you can, and make as many false notes as you can, trying to hit extremely high and extremly low false notes, always singing at max volume. Improvize a tune to shout those flase notes, on the following words: "My momma told me Not to put Beans in my ears, Beans in my ears Beans in my ears!!" (bis) Works each time. Meeting Chairperson stops, everyone stays titled, jaw dropped, and does not dare comment on your performance nor on how not a-propos this was. Complete tilt, where all they can do next is try and remember what they were saying just before you sang, and in so doing, suddenly want to get to the point, realizing how stupid what they were talking about was anyway. After a few sentences to try and sound less stupid they usually go for "on this note, the meeting is adjourned". After a second or third time, usually, colleagues learned the lyrics, and start singing it temself at appropriate moments of meeting boredom. Very handy. There. Never say I never gave you nothing;-):) C —

Response:

Does this also work on other occasions but boring office meetings? Have you ever tried out? Do you also know an effective medicine against the flu? I think I’ll be bedridden before I can await your answer. My head feels like a big hurting water melon about to be hammered apart. How’s your health? Sumi

Response:

Bwwwaaa!! Judge Judy today

admin — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess!

The lady was obvously a kook, like some of the posters here for example

Response:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! The lady was obvously a kook, like some of the posters here for example

Hey Robyn! Look what little buttwipe followed you from alt.atheism! You’ve got your very own fan club!

Response:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! The lady was obvously a kook, like some of the posters here for example

Kiss my ass, dickwad. — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Response:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! The lady was obvously a kook, like some of the posters here for example Hey Robyn! Look what little buttwipe followed you from alt.atheism! You’ve got your very own fan club!

Sadly, this isn’t the first time. D’oh! — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Response:

Thanks! It’s going to be weird getting back into the swing of things J. PS Let us know what this is all about tomorrow. Did the ungrateful little wretch invade her privacy?

No, the ungrateful bmom spent her daughter’s death benefit (her aparents had died), which she claimed she was keeping in a savings account – Plus she was suing her bdaughter for money she’d spent on her (for shampoo, food, etc.) above and beyond the $2,700 she’d already stolen from her bdaughter. It was an ugly scene and Judge Judy really let the bmom have it. — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! Whoa! I can’t stand Judge Judy, but I think I’ll have to check this out. Last day at home before I start my new job tomorrow. Might as well make the most of it I’ve been out of the loop for a while. Congrats on the new job. Thanks! It’s going to be weird getting back into the swing of things

I’ll stay home today to help keep the universe in balance. J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS Let us know what this is all about tomorrow. Did the ungrateful little wretch invade her privacy? No, the ungrateful bmom spent her daughter’s death benefit (her aparents had died), which she claimed she was keeping in a savings account – Plus she was suing her bdaughter for money she’d spent on her (for shampoo, food, etc.) above and beyond the $2,700 she’d already stolen from her bdaughter. It was an ugly scene and Judge Judy really let the bmom have it. — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

The adoptive parents (now deceased) adopted the plaintiff’s 3 children to keep them together (they were going to be split up in foster care). They were friends of the family, yet the bmom only stayed in touch sporadically, except to try to do freaky things like check them out of school on the sly without the adoptive parents knowing, instead of arranging visits. After the adoptive parents died, (the co-defendant was 14), the older, married adoptive sister became their guardian. The other two adoptees were older, and only the oldest daughter was in court (sitting on the bmom’s side). Apparently the co-defendant (Jessica, now 17) was the youngest, and the only remaining minor. Judge Judy asked the older sister—-did your adoptive sister take good care of you? She said yes, and that’s all Judge Judy wanted to hear. Jessica wanted to have a relationship with her bmom, so asked guardian (adoptive sister) if she could go live with her for awhile. The guardian teared up during this time, and Judge Judy asked if she wanted her to ask the questions. Guardian said no…this is important. She said "I have no idea what it’s like not to know where you came from and who your family is. Jessica really wanted to do this, and I thought she needed to." So, Guardian arranged for the death benefits be sent to bmom (who claimed she only got 2 checks—one for 900 and one for 700, instead of the 3 900.00 checks the trust said she got). They were supposed to be put in a savings account so Jessica could eventually buy a car. Apparently the bmom wanted full permanent custody, but Jessica didn’t want it, so she moved back home with guardian. Sooooo—bmom pulls out this huge folder of receipts—food, clothes, shampoo from Walgreens—and said she wanted to be compensated. Judge Judy said, "You’re the parent! You’re supposed to pay for these things." Bmom said "No I’m not! I signed away my rights!" Judge Judy tore a strip off of her or two, and the bmom said, "You have no idea what I’ve gone through in these last 17 years!" JJ said "Big deal! Go see Doctor Phil! You brought 3 innocent children into the world and you have a responsibility to them! Having to support one for 3 months is getting off easy! I know you went digging through your trash for all these receipts once she left, but you’re not going to profit off your responsibility!" So Judge Judy denied her claim, and the defendents won their claim for reimbursement of the death benefits. After it was over, when they do the little interviewee things at the end, the bmom was hugging oldest daughter and said, "This is the only daughter I have, because I know she won’t screw me. Maybe one day Jessica will come back around, but I’ll probably be dead by then. And my husband doesn’t want her around anyway." Blarrghh.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! Whoa! I can’t stand Judge Judy, but I think I’ll have to check this out. Last day at home before I start my new job tomorrow. Might as well make the most of it — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Oh do! The candid remarks at the end of the case were just amazing. That birthmom was a total nutter. "My husband doesn’t want her around". And then (while hugging her kept daughter), this is my ONLY daughter. Blech.

Urgh, I have a feeling I’m going to have to watch my language while watching it — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! Whoa! I can’t stand Judge Judy, but I think I’ll have to check this out. Last day at home before I start my new job tomorrow. Might as well make the most of it — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557 Oh do! The candid remarks at the end of the case were just amazing. That birthmom was a total nutter. "My husband doesn’t want her around". And then (while hugging her kept daughter), this is my ONLY daughter. Blech. Urgh, I have a feeling I’m going to have to watch my language while watching it — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Damn…I won’t be home to see it….I may have to find a torrent copy of it online. KL

Response:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess! Whoa! I can’t stand Judge Judy, but I think I’ll have to check this out. Last day at home before I start my new job tomorrow. Might as well make the most of it

I’ve been out of the loop for a while. Congrats on the new job. J. PS Let us know what this is all about tomorrow. Did the ungrateful little wretch invade her privacy?

Response:

Ok, WTF was this case about? L.

Response:

Ok, WTF was this case about?

Ugh, it was awful. Apparently this bmom gave up her kids like 14 years ago because she claims she was told that she was dying of leukemia and only had two years to live. Obviously, that wasn’t the case. During this 14 years she apparently barely had any contact with her kids. When her daughter’s adoptive parents died, the bdaughter wanted to live with her bmom for a while to get to know her. This bdaughter was receiving death benefits to the tune of $913.00 a month which the bmom claimed she would put in an account for her bdaughter. Apparently she spent it instead. When her bdaughter moved out 3 months later because they weren’t getting along, she sued her bdaughter for the money she’d spent on her while they were living together. She was claiming that not only had she used her daughter’s death benefit (which totalled $2,700.00), but had also spent above and beyond it and wanted the money back. It was obvious that this money had been spent on her entire family for bills and other things. The bdaughter and her asister countersued for the death benefit money which the bmom claimed to have been keeping in a savings account for her bdaughter (which she’d spent instead). It was a pretty ugly scene and Judge Judy really tore the bmom apart. — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Response:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess!

Response:

Catch it if you can! Birthmom suing minor relinquished daughter. What a mess!

Whoa! I can’t stand Judge Judy, but I think I’ll have to check this out. Last day at home before I start my new job tomorrow. Might as well make the most of it — Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

Response:

Oh do! The candid remarks at the end of the case were just amazing. That birthmom was a total nutter. "My husband doesn’t want her around". And then (while hugging her kept daughter), this is my ONLY daughter. Blech.

Response:

The real message of christmas

admin — Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Your Name Here=Harvey > Subject: The real message of christmas

It was actually "smell ya later". But that part was written out by later translators.

Response:

XMas is that day of the year where we can take a day to think of others and wish them well, and where we can remember to try harder to think of others in a same way all year round. A day of recapitulation and seing where we are at, what we did with the love of the neighbor all year and a time to renew and reenergize ourself to be better able to recharge and try again… A day to think of those who are usually excluded for whatever reason, that are also human bings wishing they were with hothers, at home, or that wish they knew what "home" even meant. From prisoners to people hospitalized or dyingof old age or parked in a hime and gettign a yearly visit or not even that to kids dyign of leukemia to the jobless brother or sister to the single dad and single mom… Today is the day by excellence of the year to put all judgemental outcasting values aside, to remember that everyone exactly is a human being… and a neighbor. And to christians at least then, someone to love, regardless of what faith or belief or non belief they have or not. Today is also a day to at least try and help those who do work all year round tryign to make things better and make the poor and homeless not get so forgotten as to need to rob and kill to get a part of a minimal life. Shelters for the homeless. Orphanages, and yes there are tons of those still in the world. Missiosn liek poeple working in third world countries. People who, like mother Theresa used to do, spend their energy, their every breath working for those who do not or who can not, but who can help financially or materially at least to make the work of those few possible. Tonight and tomorrw, tons of volunteers will work distributing XMas baskets, baking and cookign for the homeless, distributing used and new clothes, tryign to hand sleepign bags at least to those sleeping and frezing to death, that are still on the streets, unable to pay the few dollars that even shelters demand pretty much everywhere in Canada and the US anyway… Tonight and tomorrow, volunteers will go to hospitals to go play XMas music and distribute presents to the kids sick there, that might bnever know another XMas. Others will go spend time with the adults stuck in there with no visitors ever that try to hang in there despite the fact that they have no one waiting for them in no home… Tonight and tomorrow is the day where some will stop to help strangers along the road, still weiht safety in mind, but thinking of their neighbors’ safety too.. And today and tomorrow is a time where those who have a family try and do all they can to get there and put differences aside, and where those who have none can be invited in to belong to a family at least for one day, if poeple can not do more at all in their overloaded materialistic year. There still is time to go drop an extra blanket on some downtown sreet corner or in that area where you know the homeless abound. There still is time to leave that old thermos with it, filled with a hot coffee or soup or stew or why not, turkey and potatoes. There still is time to grab some of them tea bags, a can of this and that, some salt and pepper or other spices always missing in shelters, a few potatoes and whatever one tenth you can of your cubboard goods, dry goods and not, and go drop that at your local shelter or church. You got no car to take it there? Take an envelope and put a five dollars in and mail it. It still is time… Because what will be gathered tonight and tomorrow will constitute the largest par t of what goes directly to the needy for the entire year trhat is not the too small allocation they live on, the too lil food, the no extra dry basics. That old pair of mittens…That old scarf of last year that does not fit with your new coat. Your old coat. T-shirts, sweaters, whool socks or cotton ones alike…Boots, water proof even better… That old thing on wheels you used to use to carry your groceries before you got that new one or bought a vcar: it is the very house, drawers, fridge ofthe homeless and soemthign they can need badly for half of them… You got none of that? Did you bake cookies? Do you own an old school bag, an old back pack, an old sports bag? Bring it there. For havign lived in a shelter myself for 17 days and nights I can tell you nothing you own is worse than what they have! Bring your old jeans, your old clothes there, not to the sa,vation army as they always only get what does not sell to those who can buy cheap at the salvation army. They get the leftovers of the leftovers, unless someone brigns directly there. Got candies, chocolate bars, fruits? Think of jailed poeple. You’d not believe how many are there cause they purposely did somethign to just get a roof over their head cause no one cares to help them have one otherwise! You prefer to give to the honest ones that never did anyone any wrong? Good luck finding any. Perhaps that coudl explain why some keep everythign for themself: they fear no one will give to them, hehehehe:). You got a car but no place to go for XMas? Call a radio station and offer to give rides for the day. Who knows who you might meet in so doing:). Perhaps even your preconceived idea about the needy woudl change and you;d be the one getting the most out of your giving!:) Today is not another day to pass judgement on people in jail, on the homless or on the poor of any other kind. Let’s face it: people in jail just coudl not afford OJ’s atprneysm, and some killers are out there that will eat all year round like it was XMas…Doh. And if you still wanna give to those you find worthy of your grand self, well, so be it. There are poeple working at the fire stations and police centres and emergencies that will live horrors this Xmas seing loved ones be wounded, burtnt, lose everything… Bring them soemthing. They have coffee usually in those places, so bring somethign that can help it taste different and can comfort on a day where they too think of their families and of XMas at home…while they stay in service to protect lives and maintain order… You got nothign to give? Go around the police statisn and fire statiosn and collect! Then bring it to some good place where the needy can use it. Got old books and magazines? Think hospitals and shelters, again! This time of the eyar is a great tiem to sort through drawers and closets and give away… It is not too late. Some will find themself homeless just on XMas night, and will be conforted to find those things then the day after or the week after. Yes, your old air conditionign or thatold heater can also be precious to these places! Old dishes? Way to go, no one cares there if it matches or not! Utensils, bowls, and what of that old toaster and kettle now that you got a new one for XMas? Before NY there still is time to take all the stuff you had a new one of and bring it to others. For once, think of soemthign else than the second hand stiores. The real poor do not even have the means to get there let alone pay 50 cents for anything, and those stores do NOT sell for 50 cents anymor,e even the middle class buying there… Bring wherre it can be used free of any charge. Make sure it is given just like you did give. Got new apliances for XMas? Well, wow! What of the old ones? Have some place for the needy pick them up! Old paint cans? Shelters can use that too! How about an open account for 100 bucks for meds for some needy person at a local drugstore? I am sure that can be arranged too! Could you tech soemoen to read this year? To write? Could you spend one hour a month doing errands for soem centre? Driving the elderly to the dr? Cooking them one meal that you brign them? You still have almost two days to make soemthign with your bare hands. If you are the type that does not care for battered women, well, they have kids in there that might learn that poeple care and that not everyoen in life is a mean thing. Fidna recipe online to make silly putty. Find tricks to make crafts easy and fast, like a lil necklace for this one or a doll for that one. Mike it a point that even if one lil thing of nothing, you contribute to make the world a better place, and to ease the burden on others. And if that neighbor;s dog barks… Why not bring it a can of food and take it for a walk for XMas? Why not give him that bones from this emal you had? Avoid chicken and turkey bones, please! Maybe the next time it will bark seign you walk home and it will warm your own heart and bring a smile to your own face:) XMas is that day of the eyar o really give your all all you can. How big was your all this year…? Perhaps you are the oen needing comforting and love… Make that extra step and ask, make that call and get that basket. That i what everyoen else works for…Just in case you’d call….. Merry XMas, to all, everywhere and nowhere…. Chloe Sklenge – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(skle…@yahoo.co.uk) writes: > Your Name Here=Harvey wrote: > >> Peace on Earth – goodwill towards all mankind >> To live in peace, we have to get along with each other, >> no matter what our ideas and beliefs are. >> The use of killing and murder (violence) to get what >> you want in this world, automatically places you into >> that category of antisocial/sociopath/reject/unwanted/rubbish >> of society. If the death penalty is too kind for such folk, >> then a lifetime in jail living piously would be the >> solution. With no TV, no gym, no niceities of life to >> be enjoyed. Just a lifetime to contemplate why they are >> so locked up. >> Harvey > I have a neighbour who has a dog which barks nearly all the time. I’d like > to have the dog taken away and the neighbour to have a lifetime to > contemplate why they have to live dogless. > How far down the line are you taking this? I mean I agree there should be no > need for people to go around hurting one another but sometimes we do stupid > things because we’re stupid, or angry, or ignorant, or perceive ourselves

Response:

Now this is what I call a good post. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > XMas is that day of the year where we can take a day to think of others > and wish them well, and where we can remember to try harder to think > of others in a same way all year round. > A day of recapitulation and seing where we are at, what we did with > the love of the neighbor all year and a time to renew and reenergize > ourself to be better able to recharge and try again… > A day to think of those who are usually excluded for whatever reason, that > are also human bings wishing they were with hothers, at home, or that wish > they knew what "home" even meant. > From prisoners to people hospitalized or dyingof old age or parked in a > hime and gettign a yearly visit or not even that to kids dyign of leukemia > to the jobless brother or sister to the single dad and single mom… > Today is the day by excellence of the year to put all judgemental > outcasting values aside, to remember that everyone exactly is a human being… > and a neighbor. > And to christians at least then, someone to love, regardless of what faith > or belief or non belief they have or not. > Today is also a day to at least try and help those who do work all year > round tryign to make things better and make the poor and homeless not get > so forgotten as to need to rob and kill to get a part of a minimal life. > Shelters for the homeless. Orphanages, and yes there are tons of those > still in the world. Missiosn liek poeple working in third world countries. > People who, like mother Theresa used to do, spend their energy, their > every breath working for those who do not or who can not, but who can help > financially or materially at least to make the work of those few possible. > Tonight and tomorrw, tons of volunteers will work distributing XMas > baskets, baking and cookign for the homeless, distributing used and new > clothes, tryign to hand sleepign bags at least to those sleeping and > frezing to death, that are still on the streets, unable to pay the few > dollars that even shelters demand pretty much everywhere in Canada and the > US anyway… > Tonight and tomorrow, volunteers will go to hospitals to go play XMas > music and distribute presents to the kids sick there, that might bnever > know another XMas. > Others will go spend time with the adults stuck in there with no visitors > ever that try to hang in there despite the fact that they have no one > waiting for them in no home… > Tonight and tomorrow is the day where some will stop to help strangers > along the road, still weiht safety in mind, but thinking of their > neighbors’ safety too.. > And today and tomorrow is a time where those who have a family try and do > all they can to get there and put differences aside, and where those who > have none can be invited in to belong to a family at least for one day, if > poeple can not do more at all in their overloaded materialistic year. > There still is time to go drop an extra blanket on some downtown sreet > corner or in that area where you know the homeless abound. > There still is time to leave that old thermos with it, filled with a hot > coffee or soup or stew or why not, turkey and potatoes. > There still is time to grab some of them tea bags, a can of this and that, > some salt and pepper or other spices always missing in shelters, a few > potatoes and whatever one tenth you can of your cubboard goods, dry goods > and not, and go drop that at your local shelter or church. > You got no car to take it there? Take an envelope and put a five dollars > in and mail it. It still is time… > Because what will be gathered tonight and tomorrow will constitute the > largest par t of what goes directly to the needy for the entire year trhat > is not the too small allocation they live on, the too lil food, the no > extra dry basics. > That old pair of mittens…That old scarf of last year that does not fit > with your new coat. Your old coat. T-shirts, sweaters, whool socks or > cotton ones alike…Boots, water proof even better… > That old thing on wheels you used to use to carry your groceries before > you got that new one or bought a vcar: it is the very house, drawers, > fridge ofthe homeless and soemthign they can need badly for half of them… > You got none of that? > Did you bake cookies? > Do you own an old school bag, an old back pack, an old sports bag? > Bring it there. For havign lived in a shelter myself for 17 days and > nights I can tell you nothing you own is worse than what they have! > Bring your old jeans, your old clothes there, not to the sa,vation army as > they always only get what does not sell to those who can buy cheap at the > salvation army. They get the leftovers of the leftovers, unless someone > brigns directly there. > Got candies, chocolate bars, fruits? Think of jailed poeple. > You’d not believe how many are there cause they purposely did somethign > to just get a roof over their head cause no one cares to help them have > one otherwise! > You prefer to give to the honest ones that never did anyone any wrong? > Good luck finding any. Perhaps that coudl explain why some keep everythign > for themself: they fear no one will give to them, hehehehe:). > You got a car but no place to go for XMas? > Call a radio station and offer to give rides for the day. > Who knows who you might meet in so doing:). > Perhaps even your preconceived idea about the needy woudl change and you;d > be the one getting the most out of your giving!:) > Today is not another day to pass judgement on people in jail, on the > homless or on the poor of any other kind. Let’s face it: people in jail > just coudl not afford OJ’s atprneysm, and some killers are out there that > will eat all year round like it was XMas…Doh. > And if you still wanna give to those you find worthy of your grand self, > well, so be it. There are poeple working at the fire stations and police > centres and emergencies that will live horrors this Xmas seing loved ones > be wounded, burtnt, lose everything… > Bring them soemthing. They have coffee usually in those places, so bring > somethign that can help it taste different and can comfort on a day where > they too think of their families and of XMas at home…while they stay in > service to protect lives and maintain order… > You got nothign to give? Go around the police statisn and fire statiosn > and collect! > Then bring it to some good place where the needy can use it. > Got old books and magazines? > Think hospitals and shelters, again! > This time of the eyar is a great tiem to sort through drawers and closets > and give away… > It is not too late. Some will find themself homeless just on XMas night, > and will be conforted to find those things then the day after or the week > after. > Yes, your old air conditionign or thatold heater can also be precious to > these places! > Old dishes? Way to go, no one cares there if it matches or not! Utensils, > bowls, and what of that old toaster and kettle now that you got a new one > for XMas? > Before NY there still is time to take all the stuff you had a new one of > and bring it to others. > For once, think of soemthign else than the second hand stiores. The real > poor do not even have the means to get there let alone pay 50 cents for > anything, and those stores do NOT sell for 50 cents anymor,e even the > middle class buying there… > Bring wherre it can be used free of any charge. Make sure it is given just > like you did give. > Got new apliances for XMas? > Well, wow! > What of the old ones? > Have some place for the needy pick them up! > Old paint cans? Shelters can use that too! > How about an open account for 100 bucks for meds for some needy person at > a local drugstore? I am sure that can be arranged too! > Could you tech soemoen to read this year? To write? > Could you spend one hour a month doing errands for soem centre? > Driving the elderly to the dr? > Cooking them one meal that you brign them? > You still have almost two days to make soemthign with your bare hands. > If you are the type that does not care for battered women, well, they have > kids in there that might learn that poeple care and that not everyoen in > life is a mean thing. Fidna recipe online to make silly putty. > Find tricks to make crafts easy and fast, like a lil necklace for this one > or a doll for that one. > Mike it a point that even if one lil thing of nothing, you contribute to > make the world a better place, and to ease the burden on others. > And if that neighbor;s dog barks… > Why not bring it a can of food and take it for a walk for XMas? > Why not give him that bones from this emal you had? Avoid chicken and > turkey bones, please! > Maybe the next time it will bark seign you walk home and it will warm your > own heart and bring a smile to your own face:) > XMas is that day of the eyar o really give your all all you can. > How big was your all this year…? > Perhaps you are the oen needing comforting and love… > Make that extra step and ask, make that call and get that basket. > That i what everyoen else works for…Just in case you’d call….. > Merry XMas, to all, everywhere and nowhere…. > Chloe > Sklenge > (skle…@yahoo.co.uk) writes: > Your Name > Here=Harvey wrote: > >> Peace on Earth – goodwill towards all mankind > >> To live in peace, we have to get along with each other, > >> no matter what our ideas and beliefs are. > >> The use of killing and murder (violence) to get what > >> you want in this world, automatically places you into > >> that category of antisocial/sociopath/reject/unwanted/rubbish > >> of society. If the death penalty is too kind for such folk, > >> then a lifetime in jail living piously would be the > >> solution. With no TV, no gym, no niceities of life to > >> be enjoyed. Just a lifetime to contemplate why they are > >> so locked up. > >> Harvey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Your Name Here=Harvey wrote: > Peace on Earth – goodwill towards all mankind > To live in peace, we have to get along with each other, > no matter what our ideas and beliefs are. > The use of killing and murder (violence) to get what > you want in this world, automatically places you into > that category of antisocial/sociopath/reject/unwanted/rubbish > of society. If the death penalty is too kind for such folk, > then a lifetime in jail living piously would be the > solution. With no TV, no gym, no niceities of life to > be enjoyed. Just a lifetime to contemplate why they are > so locked up. > Harvey

I have a neighbour who has a dog which barks nearly all the time. I’d like to have the dog taken away and the neighbour to have a lifetime to contemplate why they have to live dogless. How far down the line are you taking this? I mean I agree there should be no need for people to go around hurting one another but sometimes we do stupid things because we’re stupid, or angry, or ignorant, or perceive ourselves to have been wronged by someone else etc. Always remember two things: 1] You’re only human; 2] They’re only human.

Response:

Your Name Here=Harvey wrote: > Peace on Earth – goodwill towards all mankind > To live in peace, we have to get along with each other, > no matter what our ideas and beliefs are. > The use of killing and murder (violence) to get what > you want in this world, automatically places you into > that category of antisocial/sociopath/reject/unwanted/rubbish > of society. If the death penalty is too kind for such folk, > then a lifetime in jail living piously would be the > solution. With no TV, no gym, no niceities of life to > be enjoyed. Just a lifetime to contemplate why they are > so locked up. > Harvey

Or as the Hollies put it: "No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound Nothing to eat, no books to read…" If Jesus were alive today they’d probably have him bang to rights in Guantanamo with pretty much this kinda regime. "Well tonight thank God it’s them instead of you". Just the other side of the picture. "The use of murder (violence) to get what you want in this world can get you elected President". Perhaps it wouldn’t be amiss to spare a thought for all those currently deprived of freedom for no reason and under no charge, whether "Christmas" means anything to them or not. http://207.44.245.159/article7500.htm http://www.amnesty.org/ paste to the last: library/Index/ENGAMR511462004

Response:

Peace on Earth – goodwill towards all mankind To live in peace, we have to get along with each other, no matter what our ideas and beliefs are. The use of killing and murder (violence) to get what you want in this world, automatically places you into that category of antisocial/sociopath/reject/unwanted/rubbish of society. If the death penalty is too kind for such folk, then a lifetime in jail living piously would be the solution. With no TV, no gym, no niceities of life to be enjoyed. Just a lifetime to contemplate why they are so locked up. Harvey

Response:

Prolife: Why KERRY is the one for Peace

admin — Mon, 01 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have six reasons why I belive Kerry is for peace.

Isn’t he the one who testified that he participated in horrendous atrocities in Viet Nam? Didn’t he vote for the war in Iraq? Didn’t he say that Saddam Hussein must be "taken out?" Was he not photographed recently giving photo ops with a gun, after getting a hunting license? Didn’t he want MORE U.S. troops in harm’s way in Iraq after saying that the President didn’t send enough? You need a brain, "Annie." He may be our next President but you will always remain in a world of self-imposed confusion and idiocy. EW

Response:

I have six reasons why I belive Kerry is for peace.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Your "peace" object of admiration is for aborting third trimester babies. Fuck you! EW

Response:

I have six reasons why I belive Kerry is for peace. Here is one of them. One is his commitment to break dependence on Middle Eastern oil. Ingenuity and Innovation for Ending Dependence on Middle East Oil By Annie Birdsong I want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation – not the Saudi royal family. – Senator John Kerry As fossil fuel dependency entangles us in horrific resource wars and plunges the environment to the edge of collapse, visionaries across the globe are pioneering the use of earth-friendly forms of energy. Among the brightest of examples is Chattanooga, Tennessee, which the U.S. government once called the dirtiest city in America. The smog was once so dense that people drove with their lights on in mid day. In an effort to clean up the air, the Chattanooga Area Regional Transportation Authority (CARTA) set out to put electric buses on the city streets, though there were no such buses in existence at that time and though the technology for such vehicles was only in its infancy. First, in 1991, CARTA formed a private not-for-profit corporation, to promote research and development of electric vehicle technology, called the Electric Transit Vehicle Institute (ETVI), now called the Advanced Transportation Technology Institute (ATTI). The institute manufactured two electric buses, which CARTA put into service in a downtown shuttle route in the summer of 1992. The research is in the public domain. Next, CARTA awarded a contract in a competitive bid process to a private local startup company, Advanced Vehicle Systems, to manufacture 12 more electric buses. Many of the parts were ordered from other companies. The company built 102 electric buses for 39 communities. "People love them," said John Powell, the executive director of the Advanced Transportation Technology Institute. "They’re clean and they’re quiet." The engines of the buses are simple with only one part in contrast to internal combustion engines that have 100s of parts, he said. There is no tailpipe blowing thick black soot onto the roads, no oil dripping and no grinding of parts that coat the roads with heavy metals, thus highway runoff entering waterways is much cleaner. After the electric buses run for about 90-100 miles, the batteries need to be recharged, which takes six to eight hours. To get around this long wait, keeping the buses in service, the batteries are changed after about an hour and a half, said Powell, adding that it takes about 10 or 15 minutes. Though the buses are zero emission, CARTA is using power from the grid to recharge the batteries, whereas the batteries of an electric bus in Tampa, Fl., are being recharged by electricity generated by solar panels. Other places are following in the footsteps of CARTA having electric buses built: Solvang, Santa Maria , Anaheim and San Pedro in Calif., the Los Angeles Department of Water & Power and New Haven, Conn. Harvesting the Sun A forward-looking community-owned power company in Sacramento, California, has built a solarport

OT: The Integration of Francis

admin — Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Francis tested negative for Feline Leukemia and Feline AIDS Wednesday, so today is the beginning of his integration into the general population of cats at my house. I brought him down about 40 minutes ago, while the Big Three were curled up asleep on the furniture in the parlor. He poked around a bit, and slowly they opened their eyes and noticed him. They’ve been smelling him for two months, and for a month he was living in a big cage in the parlor, with occasional forays into the parlor only, so they knew he was here, but I suspect they hoped he’d stay sequestered in the guestroom, where he’s been for the past month. There was some hissing, a little swatting, and one tense moment when the three triangulated around him and he started to make some funny "Oh, shit! I’m prey!" noises, but things calmed down, and now he’s happily playing with their toys while they watch. I’m pretty happy. No-one tried to kill anyone else, Sebbie isn’t freaking out because I have the door to the basement closed, and young master Francis may start learning some manners now. One thing he’s learning is not to get a favorite "new" toy too near one of the big cats because they’ll start verbally abusing him and make him leave it there! I think another 30 minutes and then I may take him back upstairs. Or I may just leave him out. I’m playing this by ear. Priscilla

Response:

"Priscilla Ballou" wrote in message

news:vze23t8n-350F2D.13540230102004@news.verizon.net… > Francis tested negative for Feline Leukemia and Feline AIDS Wednesday, > so today is the beginning of his integration into the general population > of cats at my house.

Excellent! ) > I brought him down about 40 minutes ago, while the Big Three were curled > up asleep on the furniture in the parlor. He poked around a bit, and > slowly they opened their eyes and noticed him. They’ve been smelling > him for two months, and for a month he was living in a big cage in the > parlor, with occasional forays into the parlor only, so they knew he was > here, but I suspect they hoped he’d stay sequestered in the guestroom, > where he’s been for the past month.

Sabina had fervently hoped that Debbie would go back to wherever she came from, & Demelza had hoped infinitely more fervently (for years!) that Herrie would manage to magically disappear. Only Debbie accepted Demelza – with open paws – after a couple of weeks. > There was some hissing, a little swatting, and one tense moment when the > three triangulated around him and he started to make some funny "Oh, > shit! I’m prey!" noises, but things calmed down, and now he’s happily > playing with their toys while they watch. > I’m pretty happy. No-one tried to kill anyone else, Sebbie isn’t > freaking out because I have the door to the basement closed, and young > master Francis may start learning some manners now. One thing he’s > learning is not to get a favorite "new" toy too near one of the big cats > because they’ll start verbally abusing him and make him leave it there! > I think another 30 minutes and then I may take him back upstairs. Or I > may just leave him out. I’m playing this by ear. > Priscilla

Sounds relatively peaceful so far. Cathy

Response:

"sue and dave" wrote in news:10oi78jppo1m0ca@corp.supernews.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Chakolate" wrote in message > news:Xns95966CE763E43chakolatehotmailcom@130.133.1.4… >> "sue and dave" wrote in >> news:10ofvhfpkhfrifc@corp.supernews.com: >> > One of his favorite tricks is to confine a fresh catch ( mouse, > chipmunk, >> > vole) in the bathtub for Coliseum-like torture. >> Ooh, I like this very much. I mean, I’m a little sorry for the prey, >> but innit grand to watch? >> And does he eat what he kills? >> Chakolate > ummmmmm no. As a matter of fact I pitched 2 deaders out the door > this morning, last night was apparantly BUSY.

Ah. He’s not hungry, then. When I introduced a friend to my cat Doc (in an infested place we have since moved from) she said he was cruel because he caught a mouse and let him go to catch him again. Personally, I think that in order to be cruel, you have to be human. He was just doing what his nature instructed. Chakolate — I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end. –Margaret Thatcher

Response:

Priscilla Ballou wrote: > Francis tested negative for Feline Leukemia and Feline AIDS Wednesday, > so today is the beginning of his integration into the general population > of cats at my house.

That’s good news! It sounds like they will all be just fine together FurPaw. — I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all. Feel free to use the above variant pledge in your own postings. To reply, unleash the dog.

Response:

In article , FurPaw wrote: > Priscilla Ballou wrote: > > Francis tested negative for Feline Leukemia and Feline AIDS Wednesday, > > so today is the beginning of his integration into the general population > > of cats at my house. > That’s good news! It sounds like they will all be just fine together

I think Francis is close to ruling the household at this point! LOL Priscilla

Response:

In article <2ui68vF2balg…@uni-berlin.de>, "Cathy Friedmann" wrote: > Sabina had fervently hoped that Debbie would go back to wherever she came > from, & Demelza had hoped infinitely more fervently (for years!) that Herrie > would manage to magically disappear. Only Debbie accepted Demelza – with > open paws – after a couple of weeks.

Poor Sebbie is currently being chased up and down the stairs by little Francis — who never encountered stairs before 2 hours ago. Poor Sebbie. He’s the biggest of the three adults both in size and in wuss-itude. He’s my "freakazoid" because he’s always freaking out. He was a *real* feral, unlike Francis who was too young to know that humans are the devil before I got my hands on him. Priscilla

Response:

Priscilla, yannose, I am more than green-eyed jello-us of you… having a kitten to integrate is just one of those experiences that makes life in the greys of Autumn more colorful! I am sure Francis will not only ‘hold his own ground" but have everyfeline by the short hairs quickly. He has found his creature comforts and has NO intention of losing any of them at this time in his young life!!!! sue w.Maine

Response:

In article <10o7qv6gje6b…@corp.supernews.com>, "sue and dave" wrote: > Priscilla, yannose, > I am more than green-eyed jello-us of you… having a kitten to integrate > is just one of those experiences that makes life in the greys of Autumn more > colorful!

I must say that it’s not making me at all miserable. ;-) > I am sure Francis will not only ‘hold his own ground" but have everyfeline > by the short hairs quickly. He has found his creature comforts and has NO > intention of losing any of them at this time in his young life!!!!

He has the self-confidence of the very young. He got whacked but good by Caley (aka The Wicked Witch of the West) about half an hour ago and then went right back for more! I think I may need to take him back upstairs pretty soon just so everyone can relax. It’s clear that he’ll be safe with them, but will he stress them all to death is the question now! Priscilla

Response:

I hear that A few years ago we were hip deep in "Big Dogs" and lacking in cats, so I brought home an 8 week old tom Slimese. Kept him sequestered and away from the fray, but the jig was up…. not one of the crew was fooled by separation of Dog and Cat, they just all needed to see and smell. The Cat now Rules, hands down. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Priscilla Ballou" wrote in message I think I may need to take him back > upstairs pretty soon just so everyone can relax. It’s clear that he’ll > be safe with them, but will he stress them all to death is the question > now! > Priscilla

Response:

"sue and dave" wrote in message news:10o83qptgsb92ab@corp.supernews.com… > I hear that > A few years ago we were hip deep in "Big Dogs" and lacking in cats, so I > brought home an 8 week old tom Slimese.

Skinny, was he? Marilee

Response:

Priscilla Ballou wrote in news:vze23t8n- 57B71E.15220930102…@news.verizon.net: > wuss-itude

Loverly word, ma’am. :-) Chakolate — I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end. –Margaret Thatcher

Response:

"Marilee" wrote in news:2uihg1F2agbu5U1@uni-berlin.de: > "sue and dave" wrote in message > news:10o83qptgsb92ab@corp.supernews.com… >> I hear that >> A few years ago we were hip deep in "Big Dogs" and lacking in cats, >> so I >> brought home an 8 week old tom Slimese. > Skinny, was he?

I thought maybe he was covered in, well, slime. Chakolate — I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end. –Margaret Thatcher

Response:

"Chakolate" wrote in message

news:Xns9592EB74FBEF4chakolatehotmailcom@130.133.1.4… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Marilee" wrote in > news:2uihg1F2agbu5U1@uni-berlin.de: > > "sue and dave" wrote in message > > news:10o83qptgsb92ab@corp.supernews.com… > >> I hear that > >> A few years ago we were hip deep in "Big Dogs" and lacking in cats, > >> so I > >> brought home an 8 week old tom Slimese. > > Skinny, was he? > I thought maybe he was covered in, well, slime.

I have a well, now! They can be pretty slimy, I guess? Joanne

Response:

"Priscilla Ballou" wrote in message

I’m glad to hear the other cats are tolerating hoolikitten Francis — Shirley see my cats at http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2 http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3

Response:

Sorry all, my ISP’s news feed was kaput for a couple days, I’m back to clear up the confusion ( LOLOL) "Slimese" is just an endearment meaning Siamese, and yes he can be slimy as in " terrorist". One of his favorite tricks is to confine a fresh catch ( mouse, chipmunk, vole) in the bathtub for Coliseum-like torture. sue "Joanne & Ned" wrote in message news:R5jhd.2630$_3.33624@typhoon.sonic.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Chakolate" wrote in message > news:Xns9592EB74FBEF4chakolatehotmailcom@130.133.1.4… > > "Marilee" wrote in > > news:2uihg1F2agbu5U1@uni-berlin.de: > > > "sue and dave" wrote in message > > > news:10o83qptgsb92ab@corp.supernews.com… > > >> I hear that > > >> A few years ago we were hip deep in "Big Dogs" and lacking in cats, > > >> so I > > >> brought home an 8 week old tom Slimese. > > > Skinny, was he? > > I thought maybe he was covered in, well, slime. > I have a well, now! They can be pretty slimy, I guess? > Joanne

Response:

"sue and dave" wrote in news:10ofvhfpkhfrifc@corp.supernews.com: > One of his favorite tricks is to confine a fresh catch ( mouse, chipmunk, > vole) in the bathtub for Coliseum-like torture.

Ooh, I like this very much. I mean, I’m a little sorry for the prey, but innit grand to watch? And does he eat what he kills? Chakolate — I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end. –Margaret Thatcher

Response:

"Chakolate" wrote in message

news:Xns95966CE763E43chakolatehotmailcom@130.133.1.4… > "sue and dave" wrote in > news:10ofvhfpkhfrifc@corp.supernews.com: > > One of his favorite tricks is to confine a fresh catch ( mouse, chipmunk, > > vole) in the bathtub for Coliseum-like torture. > Ooh, I like this very much. I mean, I’m a little sorry for the prey, but > innit grand to watch? > And does he eat what he kills? > Chakolate

ummmmmm no. As a matter of fact I pitched 2 deaders out the door this morning, last night was apparantly BUSY. Sue

Response:

Please Read This

admin — Sun, 05 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The quoted text is a post posted to this newsgroup on a thread and NOT a private email. I don’t post private email on Usenet for obvious reasons. I should think you would have waited to get the answer to that before typing your last remark . A good point. I should have gotten clarification from you before blasting my suspicions to the newsgroup. I did look through earlier postings and couldn’t find the quoted text but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. Apologies for any offense taken, and the wasted bandwidth. Jim Rosinski N3825Q

Accepted, and thank you. This issue seems to be a hot button for both myself and othersfor various reasons. You had every right to ask. Sorry you missed the post. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z’s please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

Response:

A good point. I should have gotten clarification from you before blasting my suspicions to the newsgroup. I did look through earlier postings and couldn’t find the quoted text but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.

It was there. — Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is something very strange in the human psyche. A plane crash or an auto crash or a big fire will invariably draw a big crowd. I don’t know why. I don’t think that people want to see others die; you won’t see crowds of people watching Internet videos of leukemia victims. They just want to see something big and spectacular and violent. A lot of entertainment is built around that. Most modern movies seem to have lost all concept of plot in favor of more and bigger ’special effects.’ People go to see demolition derbies. The potential for seeing a crash is, in fact, one of the reasons that a lot of people go to races. Why is that? What is it about people that they want to see this?

The answers to this question and many more concerning these issues are covered completely by intensive professional opinion in Gen Des Barker’s definitive manual on the dangers involved in display flying; "ZERO ERROR MARGIN". I suggest that anyone even remotely interested in airshow safety and the issues involved with this venue get a personal copy of this book. It covers every aspect of both the flying and the accident end of the airshow equation. I will be happy to supply the address for ordering this manual to anyone requesting it. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z’s please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently posted a strong objection to a photographer pushing crash videos on the newsgroups. I’ve pasted in below word for word the exact quoted text of a post below addressed to me personally. Aside from the personal comment the photographer makes to me, which is fine, and fully within his right to do so in defense of his position, please note his GENERAL FEELINGS about race pilots and airshow pilots, and after reading his general comment about pilots like myself, ask yourself if this person is, as he has said, involved in his hobby of crash photography simply because he "loves" aviation? Ask yourself about his frame of thinking as he’s watching pilots like myself do a demonstration. Then ask yourself how he feels about me as he’s taking that video! Thank you for your time, From Iwan Bogels to me below; I don’t have to put up with the opinion of some hypocrite pilot who is involved in demonstration flights and air races, intended to push flying to the limit. If it wasn’t for guys like you, about 50% of all crash videos would have never been shot because the crashes simply didn’t occur.

If it wasn’t for guys like you, aviation would be much more dangerous. Thank God for those who define the limits for the rest of us. — Gene Seibel Hangar 131 – http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html Because I fly, I envy no one.

Response:

This newsgroup is like the TV. Fatal or severe injury crashes are not allowed. Only slight injury crashes are allowed. It is a civic duty to maintain these common decencies.

Response:

A lot of entertainment is built around that. Most modern movies seem to have lost all concept of plot in favor of more and bigger ’special effects.’ People go to see demolition derbies. The potential for seeing a crash is, in fact, one of the reasons that a lot of people go to races. Why is that? What is it about people that they want to see this?

I think the *potential* excites people but the actuality of it when it really happens is a big "downer." I know for me, when I see video of something like that, I think, "dammit, this guy was risking his neck to put on a show to entertain me." This is also why it’s one thing to see a big nasty crash where the driver/pilot gets up and walks away or waves from the stretcher, versus one where a life is lost. When I was in Spain a couple years ago on business I, being a Hemingway fan, naturally went to see a bullfight. I mentioned it and a bunch of my co-workers decided to come along too. It had the qualities of opera, the Latin Mass, and NASCAR all rolled into one; A first-class spectacle if I’ve ever seen it. And then at the end, when the matador draws the sword and points it towards the bull to go for the killing blow, that brought home that this was in fact Blood Sport, in practice as well as principle. Having hunted deer, birds, etc. growing up, I did not find the sight of it all so shocking as did many of my more urbanized co-workers. But it was still to some degree a strange thing to see, and I suspect it will largely die out within the next couple of generations as the conventional wisdom comes to see it as barbarism, plain and simple. -cwk.

Response:

He’s obviously never been one of the people who has had to rescue/attempt to rescue or otherwise extract a friend or collegue from the wreckage of a mishap.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently posted a strong objection to a photographer pushing crash videos on the newsgroups. I’ve pasted in below word for word the exact quoted text of a post below addressed to me personally. [...] From [name deleted] to me below; In any event I don’t think what what he had to say to you (and I’ve deleted) was so bad. But if it was truly addressed to you personally and not posted to a newsgroup (your wording is unclear), I wonder how he likes having his words from a personal email showing up in a newsgroup posting. Jim Rosinski N3825Q

The quoted text is a post posted to this newsgroup on a thread and NOT a private email. I don’t post private email on Usenet for obvious reasons. I should think you would have waited to get the answer to that before typing your last remark . Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired For personal email, please replace the at with what goes there and take out the Z’s please! dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

Response:

In any event I don’t think what what he had to say to you (and I’ve deleted) was so bad. But if it was truly addressed to you personally and not posted to a newsgroup (your wording is unclear), I wonder how he likes having his words from a personal email showing up in a newsgroup posting. Jim Rosinski N3825Q

Response:

I don’t think that people want to see others die;

Until fairly recently in Western culture, torture and lynching were popular spectator events (http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0309/lm18.html). –Gary

Response:

There is something very strange in the human psyche. A plane crash or an auto crash or a big fire will invariably draw a big crowd. I don’t know why. I don’t think that people want to see others die; you won’t see crowds of people watching Internet videos of leukemia victims. They just want to see something big and spectacular and violent. A lot of entertainment is built around that. Most modern movies seem to have lost all concept of plot in favor of more and bigger ’special effects.’ People go to see demolition derbies. The potential for seeing a crash is, in fact, one of the reasons that a lot of people go to races. Why is that? What is it about people that they want to see this?

Response:

I recently posted a strong objection to a photographer pushing crash videos on the newsgroups. I’ve pasted in below word for word the exact quoted text of a post below addressed to me personally. Aside from the personal comment the photographer makes to me, which is fine, and fully within his right to do so in defense of his position, please note his GENERAL FEELINGS about race pilots and airshow pilots, and after reading his general comment about pilots like myself, ask yourself if this person is, as he has said, involved in his hobby of crash photography simply because he "loves" aviation? Ask yourself about his frame of thinking as he’s watching pilots like myself do a demonstration. Then ask yourself how he feels about me as he’s taking that video! Thank you for your time, From Iwan Bogels to me below; – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t have to put up with the opinion of some hypocrite pilot who is involved in demonstration flights and air races, intended to push flying to the limit. If it wasn’t for guys like you, about 50% of all crash videos would have never been shot because the crashes simply didn’t occur. Flying is relatively safe, but pushing flight to the limit for the fun of it just isn’t. Don’t complain if something goes wrong when guys like you are willingly taking more risk than necessary during air races and demonstration flights. And stop pointing fingers at people who are interested to see thrilling aviation just because it simply exites them. Pilots like you provided it to them in the first place!

Response:

The Story of Sadako

admin — Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Nobody gives a shit about this Jap crap

Your acting is so inept that even your impersonation of a human seems unconvincing.

Response:

It was Nuke the Nips or spend 500,000 Yankee lives. Tear-jerking drivel. Ick. Do you work for the Canadian Broadcasting Corp?

I am not justifying or condemning dropping nuclear bombs. I’m reporting the restoration of a statue which represents peace and safety for the children of the world.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sadako Sasaki was a 12 year old girl who died of leukemia as a result of the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. She wanted to live so she tried to make 1000 cranes. She never finished the cranes and died. She could have grown up to be a beautiful pop star. But instead, she is dead. It could be your child that will become a victim of war. That is the curse. Soon after a protest to display the "Enola Gay" plane at the Smithsonian, which dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima some political activist(s) took Sadako’s arm in Seattle’s Peace Park as a counter-protest. That is what is suspected. In Hiroshima, Sadako’s statue is elevated to prevent vandalism. In Seattle, Sadako’s statue will also be moved to a place where it is less easy to vandalize. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/184767_nsecondary04.html http://m-and-partners.com/sadako/wppc/default.shtml

What kind of asshole would get pleasure out of vandalising a replica of a little girl who died of Leukemia? Geez o wiz.

Response:

Or what kind of asshole would get something out of xploiting a little girl who died for that matter gm

How is this exploitation if it is Sadako’s own wish and prayer that she be remembered for wanting peace. "This is our cry. This is our prayer. Peace in the world." ~Sadako Sasaki

Response:

Nobody gives a shit about this Jap crap — Talesin- The Bad Boy of Witchcraft ™ "It’s time for the human race to enter the solar system." – George W. Bush http://home.kc.rr.com/pendragonsloft

OT:Question of the day 7/29/04

admin — Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

X-NoArchive: yes 7/29/04: What books have you read recently or are currently reading?

"All The Sundays Yet To Come – A Skater’s Journey" by Kathryn Bertine. — The charter is available at: