Talk Cancer

Question:

Think I’ll revisit our wills.  We might have power of attorney, but then maybe not. Thanks for the heads up. (the)duckster

Your welcome  While I agree in principle with what a living will stands for, the *reality* of a living will and how it *can* play out can be horrific.  I never would have imagined it if I hadn’t experienced it myself. Unfortunately, my experience is not unique.  Every survivor of ARDS (Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome) that I have encountered has a horror story to tell of how their loved ones were given the ‘talk’ and were pressured (in varying degrees) to pull the plug.  Often times these talks were accompanied with dire predictions of ‘being a vegetable’ even if they did survive the ARDS crisis. I’ve also encountered colon cancer patients who’s doctors were a litttle too eager to ‘pull the plug’  when they ran into trouble because, afterall, they were terminal, it was only a matter of time.  I guess that additional 6 months, year, whatever doesn’t mean much to *them*   One family member even discovered by accident that the attending doc had written DNR on her mother’s chart even though *nobody* (her mother included) had *ever* indicated that this was a consideration.  Of course she promptly had that doctor removed from her mother’s case. Unfortunately, sometimes doctors let their own personal feelings on the subject color their behavior.  Ok, I’ve rambled enough on the subject  It’s one of my hot button issues I know you understand though.  You were one of the first to reach out to me when my Dad was diagnosed and I really appeciated it. ((Hugs)) Kathy 1

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is not at all adoption related, but I have to believe that most of the U.S. posters to alt.a. have some feelings about the ongoing battle over the Florida woman whose feeding tube was recently removed after the end of an extremely long legal battle between her husband and her parents. I’m appalled by the extent to which her life has become a political issue in first the Florida legislature and now in Congress.  As I write, Congress may already have sent special legislation to the President, creating jurisdiction in a federal court for the review of the Florida state court’s actions.  As I understand it, the bill would apply only to the Schiavo case. Aside from the many legal issues this raises, constitutional or otherwise, this strikes me as far beyond the pale.  How either party (or both) could play political football with this family’s situation is, sadly, not beyond me.  It’s no worse than I’ve come to expect from any elected official when there are points to be scored. Every single one of them should be deeply ashamed.   I am, just sitting on the sidelines. J.

If after reading the history of this matter, you do not at least think of obtaining a power of attorney for health care matters …. Doug Thomas

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is not at all adoption related, but I have to believe that most of the U.S. posters to alt.a. have some feelings about the ongoing battle over the Florida woman whose feeding tube was recently removed after the end of an extremely long legal battle between her husband and her parents. I’m appalled by the extent to which her life has become a political issue in first the Florida legislature and now in Congress.  As I write, Congress may already have sent special legislation to the President, creating jurisdiction in a federal court for the review of the Florida state court’s actions.  As I understand it, the bill would apply only to the Schiavo case. Aside from the many legal issues this raises, constitutional or otherwise, this strikes me as far beyond the pale.  How either party (or both) could play political football with this family’s situation is, sadly, not beyond me.  It’s no worse than I’ve come to expect from any elected official when there are points to be scored. Every single one of them should be deeply ashamed.   I am, just sitting on the sidelines. J.

Me too J.  There is just so much wrong with this entire thing that I wouldn’t even begin to know where to start.

Response:

This is not at all adoption related, but I have to believe that most of the U.S. posters to alt.a. have some feelings about the ongoing battle over the Florida woman whose feeding tube was recently removed after the end of an extremely long legal battle between her husband and her parents. I’m appalled by the extent to which her life has become a political issue in first the Florida legislature and now in Congress.  As I write, Congress may already have sent special legislation to the President, creating jurisdiction in a federal court for the review of the Florida state court’s actions.  As I understand it, the bill would apply only to the Schiavo case.

I admit to very muddled views on this case. I believe in the right to die, and were I in a persistent vegetative state, I’d want someone to pull the plug. So from that standpoint, I favor the efforts of one side to do so. Having said that, I am not sure where I come down on the Schiavo case, for several reasons. 1.  From what little I’ve heard, the husband is in a situation where conflict of interest may be presumed. Soon after Terry Schiavo’s coma started, he became involved with someone else. There were some allegations that he would benefit financially from Terry’s death. In this situation, I have qualms about whether he is indeed acting in her best interest. 2. While the parents may be acting more out of love and hope than medical rationality, they have put their money where their mouth is, committing to caring for Terry as long as they/ she lives. I see them as better representing Terry’s best interest than her husband does. 3. While I favor "pulling the plug" in cases of persistent vegetative states, is a feeding tube (through which she also gets water) a plug? I’d have had better vibes if we were discussing a respirator. 4. While many doctors have come to the same conclusion about Terry, misdiagnoses have happened in the past. It’s possible this is another such. From an ethical standpoint, a person’s life has value to that person,

and to others. The value to the person is of course primary; but when there’s no way to ascertain that, then the secondary benefit I think becomes a key issue. In this case, her life clearly has huge value to her parents. Since it’s impossible to determine Terry’s own wishes, her parents’ wishes should be given some weightage. On the whole, I believe that in this situation Terry should continue to live. As for the legal manoeuvres in progress, some of which are approaching legal gymnastics, I have no strong views. I do feel there is an attempt being made to prevent an injustice. However, I believe that the same machinery could as easily be used to subvert justice and interfere with personal rights. Rupa

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I’d have expected him to relinquish the role of legal guardianship to her parents. To my mind, once he was involved with someone else, he lost the ethical presumption that he was acting in her best interest. I know he has the legal right to act as her guardian, but I don’t think he has the moral right. You are, as always correct.  But by not giving parents guardianship almost says to me he is doing what he says she wanted, getting her off the tubes. There were only two people in that marriage, not her parents, church, congress, RTLfers, See, I guess it says something entirely different to me. It implies at the very least that he has control issues.

Yes it would seem to imply that.  Reports are that he turned down a subsantial amount of money to turn over guardianship to her parents.  I find it impossible to believe he is doing this for *her* sake.

I find it hard to believe that they discussed this issue in depth as 20 somethings. That this is something she definitively wanted.  Most of us don’t seriously consider the issue, imo, until we are a little further along in age. Kathy 1

Response:

If there is one thing this entire matter teaches, is the having of a living will.

You bet. Absolutely right. In the meantime, we are treated to the spectacle of a hysterical mother pleading for the madness to stop, the religious right weighing in, a US Congress who has no business in it and a husband who as her legal guardian has steadfastly held to what he believed his wife wanted.  Yes, I know he has a girlfriend and a couple of kids by her, but after ten years what do you expect, a monk? Messy all the way around.

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and reading on this lately. My thoughts on this situation have evolved from what I thought a few days ago. They might evolve further. I’ve been resisting commenting on this here since J put up the original post, but, well, you know me  :-) This is where I