What has hydrocodone in it but less acetominophen than Vicodin ES does?

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Question:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Toradol was never effective for my migraines either. I couldn’t even tell I had taken anything when I had an injection. Told the doctors not to waste my time and their Toradol! Stadol and Phenergan injections are the only thing that will completely get rid of my headaches. Stadol NS and oral Phenergan at home will let me function daily till the pain and the nausea get unmanageable and I have to go to the doctor’s office for an injection. Most pills don’t help unless it is going to be a mild one anyway and I catch it early. I will use Midrin, Darvon or Mephergan if I am not at home and start hurting. Fortunately, having the Stadol NS has kept me from ever having to go to the ER for treatment. I can usually manage till I can get to the Dr. office and get him to authorize an injection. Usually I don’t even have to see him, and the waiting is minimal once they see the pain in my eyes! Barbara Like every other drug, Toradol works for some, for some problems. I found it very helpful for some migraines. I used it in conjunction with Stadol and they kept me out of the ER many, many times. The pills are worthless. And dangerous to boot. jane Before I attempt an ER visit for a migraine, I try Toradol at home first, the oral form. Toradol has never touched my pain, but I know it’s often beneficial to many others. Mary

Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html<head</head<BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"<p<font size=3D3 = color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Comic Sans MS"Toradol was never effective for = my migraines either.  I couldn’t even tell I had taken anything = when I had an injection.  Told the doctors not to waste my time and = their Toradol!  Stadol and Phenergan injections are the only thing = that will completely get rid of my headaches.  Stadol NS and oral = Phenergan at home will let me function daily till the pain and the = nausea get unmanageable and I have to go to the doctor’s office for an = injection.  Most pills don’t help unless it is going to be a mild = one anyway and I catch it early.  I will use Midrin, Darvon or = Mephergan if I am not at home and start hurting.  Fortunately, = having the Stadol NS has kept me from ever having to go to the ER for = treatment.  I can usually manage till I can get to the Dr. office = and get him to authorize an injection.  Usually I don’t even have = to see him, and the waiting is minimal once they see the pain in my = eyes!<brBarbara<br wrote in article <<font =

> Like every other drug, Toradol works for some, for some problems. = I > found it very helpful for some migraines. I used it in = conjunction with > Stadol and they kept me out of the ER = many, many times.</i > The = pills are worthless. And dangerous to boot.</i > jane</i Before I attempt an ER visit for a migraine, I = try Toradol at home first, the oral form.   Toradol has never touched my = pain, but I know it’s often beneficial to many others. Mary<br<font size=3D3 =  <font size=3D2</p </font</font</font</font</font</font</font</font</font</font</f= ont</font</font</font</font</font</font</font</body</html

Response:

Like every other drug, Toradol works for some, for some problems. I found it very helpful for some migraines. I used it in conjunction with Stadol and they kept me out of the ER many, many times. The pills are worthless. And dangerous to boot. jane

Before I attempt an ER visit for a migraine, I try Toradol at home first, the oral form. This way, the attending physician is reluctant to give me additional Toradol at the hospital. I am also loaded up with Compazine and Imitrex before I make the often humiliating trip to the ER. Sometimes the doctor is compliant with my Demerol wishes, and sometimes I leave with the same amount of pain I crawled in with. Toradol has never touched my pain, but I know it’s often beneficial to many others. Mary

Response:

The [Toradol] pills are worthless. And dangerous to boot.<< Jane, are you referring to the tendency Torodol has to cause stomach irritation?

Nope, I’ve just heard (from my former neuro)that the pills don’t work and have some nasty side effects. I know I did some research several years ago that backed him up. But I don’t remember what it was. Most likely, it came from the PDR. jane

Response:

Joni, You cannot get Hycodan in the United States. It is sold in Canada. I know because I tried to find in with the help of my doctors and local pharmacist. I know that this newsgroup is world wide, so please inform people that Hycodan is NOT sold in the United States. Thanks,

house, right now, bought at Walgreen in Houston Texas are 30 5mg hydrocodone tablets, plain little bitty white pills scored in the middle for easy division. Little bitty pills with no APAP in them at all. They are also much much cheaper than vicodin or lortab or anything else. that is why the clinic where my husband goes prescribes them because they are much cheaper than vicodin. So – if you have a problem getting them, go to Walgreen’s, Eckerds, or Liberty Drugs. They all carry pure hydrocodone pills or elixir. Take care Joni

Response:

I had a migraine last month…tried imitrex a bit too late and suffered all day..proceeded to work where matters got worse..I went to the er and received injection of taradol…it is clear that injections always work superior to any pill Tardol was perfect…but I am told it is ‘dangerous’ if use in pill form….side effects with long term use not good….is anything good long term? Of course not…we only need meds when we get those migraines… Any success using Taradol from anyone out there? Thanks Suzi Respond to this email if you like

Response:

emailed and posted Great post!! Informed, accurate….. I am surprised that no one has mentioned Imitrex for your migraine. I take it and it works pretty well. Comes in 2 forms: pill and liquid (shot). The shot is stronger and is self administered. Might want to try it. BTW, Demerol in pill form is *not* that strong. The shots are abut 6x stronger – which is why they work so wel. But it is’t a good drug to use over a extended period. Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It hard to believe some of the suggestions that have come in response to your question. The one who recommended Demerol should be shot. Demerol (meperidine) is indicated for short term pain management lasting less than 10 days. It is contraindicated by the AHCPR for management of cancer pain due to its toxic metabolite (nor-merperidine). The best suggestions you have received are to switch to long acting pure opioids like Oxycontin or maybe MS-Contin. There has been no study to date that shows that oxycodone is "more addictive" than hydrocodone. Oxycontin will give you the same onset of analgesia that you are accustomed to with Vicodin but will last 12 hours. With any short acting opioid you get all of the medication up front when you take the pill and it lasts about 4 hours. The Acro-Contin delivery system delivers a minor amount of oxycodone up front and then gives a slow release of of the drug over 12 hours. Any time you can reduce the amount of times you take a front loading dose of a drug, the less chance you have to become "addicted". For someone in true pain the addiction rate is 1 in 3000 people, very small. Don’t confuse addiction with dependence or tolerance. "Someone with diabetes is dependent on insulin." One can become tolerant to opioids, but increasing the dose solves the problem. If your pain state does not change you should not need much titration in the drug dose once you pain is under control. The American Cancer Society states that pure opioids have the best benefit to risk ratio for pain management. Get rid of the acetaminophen and teach your physician the benefits of pure oxycodone! Most doctors have had about 1 week of training in pain management through out their residency. In less they did a fellowship in pain, I would be very cautious and get a second opinion from a pain treatment center in a teaching institution. Most convert patients from short acting combination drugs to pure opioids like Oxycontin or MS-Contin. hope this helps, jim c.

Response:

Au contraire, it really smarts, but you *can* inject toradol yourself. The size of the needle alone works against overusing it You’d have to be into S&M to use the needle that comes with torado. I always change it to a much smaller needle – unless the patient is a real pain.

Hey those needles arent so bad. Heck I dont even have to tie Karen up no more to give her a shot <g(putting away the handcuffs and binders) Marty Ridin through a storm is better than sittin in front of the TV Ridin through the mountains in fall is best of ALL x-no-archive-yes

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Codeine isn’t nearly strong enough and Percocet would work but I don’t think I need something quite that strong – at least at this point in time anyway. And moving up to Percocet would mean my tolerance would be moving up another notch and I think it would create more problems than it would be worth. Demerol is for when the pain gets really bad and no amount of Vicodin (Hydrocodone) will stop it. I think the best thing for me right now is just to stick with Hydrocodone but reduce the Tylenol content. Percocet has 325mg of acetaminophen in it, so that is no your answer. I’m from Canada so I’m not familiar with Vicodin or what it is. Has your doc. considered demerol. It really helped me. I’ve had bad liver function tests from a drug I take for something else, so I avoid tylenol products when I can. The other thing you might consider is straight codeine without the tylenol, like in tylenol 3. Just as a matter of interest, a dentist I know is using advil and codeine together and says that it is one of the best painkillers he’s ever prescribed. Good luck

don’t know if you ever got an answer to your question – but it is yes, Indeed. You can get straight hydrocodone and it is much less expensive than vicodin ES. It comes in 5 mg – a little white pill. You can get it stronger also. Also, you can get straight HC in an elixir. Also – if that doesn’t work, there is an extraction method to take the APAP out of the HC. It works very well. There is a FAQ somewhere on the net that describes it, but basically you dissolve the Vicodin in warm water, or use a mortar with a little tap water. Put it in the freezer for around 10 minutes and then strain the liquid. The APAP will remain thick and will not strain. The water will be almost pure HC. You may need to take one or two extra to compensate for HC lost in the process. But – just ask your MD to prescribe pure hydrocodone, or brand name: Hycodan. Take care Joni

Response:

Au contraire, it really smarts, but you *can* inject toradol yourself. The size of the needle alone works against overusing it

You’d have to be into S&M to use the needle that comes with torado. I always change it to a much smaller needle – unless the patient is a real pain.

Response:

It hard to believe some of the suggestions that have come in response to your question. The one who recommended Demerol should be shot. Demerol (meperidine) is indicated for short term pain management lasting less than 10 days. It is contraindicated by the AHCPR for management of cancer pain due to its toxic metabolite (nor-merperidine). The best suggestions you have received are to switch to long acting pure opioids like Oxycontin or maybe MS-Contin. There has been no study to date that shows that oxycodone is "more addictive" than hydrocodone. Oxycontin will give you the same onset of analgesia that you are accustomed to with Vicodin but will last 12 hours. With any short acting opioid you get all of the medication up front when you take the pill and it lasts about 4 hours. The Acro-Contin delivery system delivers a minor amount of oxycodone up front and then gives a slow release of of the drug over 12 hours. Any time you can reduce the amount of times you take a front loading dose of a drug, the less chance you have to become "addicted". For someone in true pain the addiction rate is 1 in 3000 people, very small. Don’t confuse addiction with dependence or tolerance. "Someone with diabetes is dependent on insulin." One can become tolerant to opioids, but increasing the dose solves the problem. If your pain state does not change you should not need much titration in the drug dose once you pain is under control. The American Cancer Society states that pure opioids have the best benefit to risk ratio for pain management. Get rid of the acetaminophen and teach your physician the benefits of pure oxycodone! Most doctors have had about 1 week of training in pain management through out their residency. In less they did a fellowship in pain, I would be very cautious and get a second opinion from a pain treatment center in a teaching institution. Most convert patients from short acting combination drugs to pure opioids like Oxycontin or MS-Contin. hope this helps, jim c.

Response:

Codeine isn’t nearly strong enough and Percocet would work but I don’t think I need something quite that strong – at least at this point in time anyway. And moving up to Percocet would mean my tolerance would be moving up another notch and I think it would create more problems than it would be worth. Demerol is for when the pain gets really bad and no amount of Vicodin (Hydrocodone) will stop it. I think the best thing for me right now is just to stick with Hydrocodone but reduce the Tylenol content. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Percocet has 325mg of acetaminophen in it, so that is no your answer. I’m from Canada so I’m not familiar with Vicodin or what it is. Has your doc. considered demerol. It really helped me. I’ve had bad liver function tests from a drug I take for something else, so I avoid tylenol products when I can. The other thing you might consider is straight codeine without the tylenol, like in tylenol 3. Just as a matter of interest, a dentist I know is using advil and codeine together and says that it is one of the best painkillers he’s ever prescribed. Good luck

Response:

the following hallucination: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to switch to taking something other than Vicodin ES because of its acetaminophen content. My insurance company is really pushing me to start taking something in the Oxycodone group on a daily *maintenance* basis because they’re afraid they’ll be liable if I develop liver/kidney damage over the long term. Hi- My question is: Does your insurance company have a license to practice medicine? That’s what they’re doing! Jack

You know, that’s exactly the same thing I’d like to know. After they overruled what my doctors had prescribed to me a few times I told them that I thought they were practicing medicine without a license and second-guessing my doctors. Their response was just that they "have an obligation to control costs to the taxpayers of the State". So I asked how they thought they could control costs by refusing to fill a $12 prescription, when they know that the result of their action will be that I’ll end up in the E.R. which will create a bill for them of $1,000. To this they simply said that they had no answer. However, I was told that my situation wasn’t that bad compared to the $40 prescription they denied some girl who told them she had to have it or she’d end up in the hospital with a $50,000 bill that they’d have to pay. And of course they denied the prescription and wound up with a $50,00 hospital bill. They simply told me that "Medi-Cal is a big bureaucratic system and it has its problems".

Response:

Hello Preston, My Dr. told me that there was not; but as you know sometimes Dr’s only tell you what they want you to know. BTW I was on Vicodin ES for many years and change to Oxycontin( Oxycodone ) and I feel it was the best thing my doctor did for me as I only need to take it twice a day ( 3 times if I have a real bad day )and my stomach likes me much more now than when I took Vicodin ES. Oxycontin is stronger but it is timed release so it last longer than Vicodin ES. I have heard that their is a IR of Oxycontin on the market but my Dr. felt it was better to take more timed release the IR. Good Luck and try to have Pain Free Days. Chuck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to switch to taking something other than Vicodin ES because of its acetaminophen content. My insurance company is really pushing me to start taking something in the Oxycodone group on a daily *maintenance* basis because they’re afraid they’ll be liable if I develop liver/kidney damage over the long term. My last blood tests showed no indication of this. I don’t really want to start taking something like Percocet if I don’t really need it, and my doctors don’t like the idea much either. So I think the solution right now is just to switch to something like Lorcet 10/650 which will significantly cut the amount of Acetaminophen I’m getting daily, but let me stay at the current hydrocodone dose. So my question is this: Is there anything else out there other than Lorcet 10/650 that will have hydrocodone in it but a lesser amount of Acetaminophen as compared to Vicodin ES? BTW, this is a legitimate, serious question. So for any of those few in here who are thinking of jumping all over me for taking that big bad "always-addicting" drug Vicodin and want to steer this topic off into issues of pain legitimacy, severity, drug dependency, abuse, addiction, seeing different doctors, chiropractic, etc., etc., etc…, don’t bother. Been there.. done all that. I’ll just add you to my permanent Kill Filter file and that will be the end of it. (Sorry if that sounds kinda harsh but I’m not going to get involved in any controversy).

Response:

Percocet has 325mg of acetaminophen in it, so that is no your answer. I’m from Canada so I’m not familiar with Vicodin or what it is. Has your doc. considered demerol. It really helped me. I’ve had bad liver function tests from a drug I take for something else, so I avoid tylenol products when I can. The other thing you might consider is straight codeine without the tylenol, like in tylenol 3. Just as a matter of interest, a dentist I know is using advil and codeine together and says that it is one of the best painkillers he’s ever prescribed. Good luck

Response:

I want to switch to taking something other than Vicodin ES because of its acetaminophen content. My insurance company is really pushing me to start taking something in the Oxycodone group on a daily *maintenance* basis because they’re afraid they’ll be liable if I develop liver/kidney damage over the long term. My last blood tests showed no indication of this. I don’t really want to start taking something like Percocet if I don’t really need it, and my doctors don’t like the idea much either. So I think the solution right now is just to switch to something like Lorcet 10/650 which will significantly cut the amount of Acetaminophen I’m getting daily, but let me stay at the current hydrocodone dose. So my question is this: Is there anything else out there other than Lorcet 10/650 that will have hydrocodone in it but a lesser amount of Acetaminophen as compared to Vicodin ES? BTW, this is a legitimate, serious question. So for any of those few in here who are thinking of jumping all over me for taking that big bad "always-addicting" drug Vicodin and want to steer this topic off into issues of pain legitimacy, severity, drug dependency, abuse, addiction, seeing different doctors, chiropractic, etc., etc., etc…, don’t bother. Been there.. done all that. I’ll just add you to my permanent Kill Filter file and that will be the end of it. (Sorry if that sounds kinda harsh but I’m not going to get involved in any controversy).

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