Talk Cancer

Question:

Dagfinn Reiersol wrote: > wroll…@nmsu.edu (W. ROLLINS) wrote: > >Listen you narrow minded dufus, > What’s a dufus? It’s not in my dictionary. Please, I can’t get > insulted unless you tell me. > ——————————————————————— > Dagfinn Reiersol    reier…@online.no > Oslo, Norway > ———————————————————————The term

 ’dufus’ is American slang. An up-to-date American dictionary that includes slang defines it as a term to be applied when one doesnot know how to address  something otherwise… —               MERRYCHRISTMASMERRYCHRISTMASMERRYCHRISTMASMERRY               E                                             C               R                      |                      H               R                     /                     R               Y                    - * –                    I               C                     /                     S               H                    ^ | ^                    T               R                  .~”“~.                   M               I                 "”’()“`"                  A               S                .~*”’“*`~.                 S               T               "””*’*““`"                M               M              .~”””“““~.               E               A             "””()”`()““`"              R               S            .~*”””’“““`*~.             R               M           "””*””’““`*““"            Y               E          .~”””*”’“*“““`~.           C               R         "”””””’*““`()““ "          H               R        .~*””’()””“““““`*~.         R               Y       "””*””””()““““*“` "        I               C      .~”()””*””’““`*““()“~.       S               H     "””””””””*“““““““ "      T               R    <~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+>     M               I                    :—:                    A               S                    |—|                    S               T                    |—|                    M               M                                             E               A                                             R               S                                             R               MERRYCHRISTMASMERRYCHRISTMASMERRYCHRISTMASMERRY                                  Paul Eberl

Response:

wroll…@nmsu.edu (W. ROLLINS) wrote: >Listen you narrow minded dufus, why would any dentist refuse to perform >several thousand dolars worth of work and get paid for it if he/she >thought it would make the patient happy.

I guess I should answer this question even though there’s no question mark. I think most dentists trust their so-called authorities. And those authorities sometimes have different motivations than the individual dentists. The dental community has handled this poorly by not doing proper research on this problem. They were so sure it was safe, they didn’t feel they needed to do it. Research after 1980 (mostly by non-dental researchers) has certainly shown that they were wrong about that. Of course they’re embarrased when someone points that out. As Mark Richardson states in his risk assessment for Health Canada (1995): "Despite the recognition of the lack of adequate clinical studies as early as 1931 (Souder and Sweeney 1931), again in 1987 (Enwonwu 1987) and in 1990 (Weiner et al. 1990), appropriate studies have not been initiated by denal practitioners, amalgam manufacturers/distributors or regulatory agencies in Canada or elsewhere." The dental profession’s denial of such things as mercury release from amalgam is fact, not hypothesis. I have the documentation to prove it, but won’t take up time and bandwidth with it right now. >Its not the rest of the world thats fucked up.

Oh, I’m not complaining about the "rest of the world". The US, maybe. In northern Europe, there’s a lot of awareness of this issue now. > Its you and your >convoluted logic. If I’m a dentist and a patient says they think their >old amalgam fillings are making them sick and they want expensive removal >and replacement with expensive new ones, I think I’d call my broker to >set up a new investment. >BiNM

——————————————————————— Dagfinn Reiersol    reier…@online.no Oslo, Norway ———————————————————————

Response:

wroll…@nmsu.edu (W. ROLLINS) wrote: >We have discussed dental amalgam continuously for the past 3 years and >not one proven scientific fact has linked it to MS. It has been linked to >misdiagnosis though. >You are peddling snake oil if you insist MS is caused by amalgam fillings.

I dont *insist* on it, but I think in light of the increasing acceptance of amalgam-illness as a general condition, it may be time to re-evaluate & at least push for some more research into the subject. This is because all the rejections of the MS-Amalgam link I have seen are based on the assumption that amalgam causes *no* illness – rather than specific MS research. So the question "Can amalgam cause neurological disease" becomes important. There is now credible research evidence linking Hg to Alzhiemers –  to take just one example. It does go beyond mercury too – I am also  interested in the roles of certain metal toxins (Lead, Arsnic) that are often found as pollutants – also Organo-phosphates, and other chemicals. A lot of MS research concentrates on the immune system response & controlling that through substances like Beta interferon – but the question I am asking is – what role could toxins be playing in effecting/damaging the immune system and precipitating the illness? I think you need to remember that this issue has moved on since the days of Huggins & the NBC program – also look to germany & sweden, where the problem is taken & researched very seriously. By the way, some of the helpful solutions may be quite easy – ie. selenium plays a key role in inhibiting the action of mercury, so simple cheap selenium mineral supplements may be at least a start.. cheers ade To learn more about the Amalgam safety issue (or lack of) visit:-   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcsol This provides a wide range of information, and also links to other important sources – The Amalgam FAQ, The BBC Panorama program summary, the IAOMT homepage, Dr Vimys page, etc.

Response:

eaglew…@aol.com wrote: >Yes!…  Absolutely!  And, I’d also appreciate it if the information was >NOT sent to me privately, when I have NOT asked for it…any more…

It wasnt – the infomation was posted to a public newsgroup, or in reply to questions/remarks. If mail volume is a problem, you need an offline browser.. >In article <5931nc$se…@o.online.no>, reier…@online.no (Dagfinn >Reiersol) writes: >>I’m sorry, but I don’t know any nice way to say this: having strong >opinions and not being interested in well-reasoned arguments against them >is the definition of a closed mind.<< >Perhaps you are unaware of just how MUCH of the same repeated info on this >topic we have been "exposed" to…    Or, perhaps you’re not… I don’t >really know.  But, as for the comment above…  I must say, the same holds >true for the  "Amalgam = ultimate destruction of all human life as we know >it" group, as well….  Strong opinions and well-reasoned arguments,

Who has said that? All we were saying was that amalgam poses a serious and pretty well proven health risk, and furthermore there are reasonable grounds to suspect that it can cause MS. Is that so fantastic and irrational? So far I havent seen well argued scientific refutations here. >indeed!!!    All Lois is suggesting is that those who are *interested* be >the ones who can *ask for the info…and that the rest of us not have to >hear the *same information repeated again and again….and again! And, I >couldn’t agree more!

But the point is that the some of the research  info I have posted HASNT been widely published. And I certainly dont see how you could say dagfinn has been insulting in his posts – you must be reading a lot in "between the lines".. This is a public newsgroup, and there are others out there who have been interested in our posts, judging from private mails. cheers & happy xmas.. ade To learn more about the Amalgam safety issue (or lack of) visit:-   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcsol

Response:

W. ROLLINS <wroll…@nmsu.edu> wrote in article <59b47t$…@bubba.NMSU.Edu>… > Listen you narrow minded dufus, why would any dentist refuse to perform > several thousand dolars worth of work and get paid for it if he/she > thought it would make the patient happy. > Its not the rest of the world thats fucked up. Its you and your > convoluted logic. If I’m a dentist and a patient says they think their > old amalgam fillings are making them sick and they want expensive removal > and replacement with expensive new ones, I think I’d call my broker to > set up a new investment. > BiNM

If a dentist performed an amalgam replacement solely on the premise of making the patient healthy, the ADA would revoke his/her license.  It is in the ADA code of ethics, that a dentist may not suggest that amalgam replacement will produce any health benefits. -Dan

Response:

pc…@tcp.co.uk wrote:

: I am not peddling snake oil. I am not here because I get perverse joy : from bombarding your mailbox with unwanted mail. I would like a : serious, maybe technical, debate about the role of toxins in MS – an : issue that is neglected by mainstream MS research in it pusuit of : Genetical/other factors. : Is that so unreasonable? We have discussed dental amalgam continuously for the past 3 years and not one proven scientific fact has linked it to MS. It has been linked to misdiagnosis though. You are peddling snake oil if you insist MS is caused by amalgam fillings. BiNM

Response:

wroll…@nmsu.edu (W. ROLLINS) wrote: >Listen you narrow minded dufus,

What’s a dufus? It’s not in my dictionary. Please, I can’t get insulted unless you tell me. ——————————————————————— Dagfinn Reiersol    reier…@online.no Oslo, Norway ———————————————————————

Response:

Dagfinn Reiersol (reier…@online.no) wrote:

: I’m surprised at the way this topic is treated in this newsgroup. I : can understand this kind of attitude in dentists and others who have : been denying this 150 years and don’t want to admit they’ve been wrong : all this time. But why should MS sufferers be complacent about the : fact that they’re being dosed with a poison with powerful effects on : the immune system and the nervous system? I find that very strange. Listen you narrow minded dufus, why would any dentist refuse to perform several thousand dolars worth of work and get paid for it if he/she thought it would make the patient happy. Its not the rest of the world thats fucked up. Its you and your convoluted logic. If I’m a dentist and a patient says they think their old amalgam fillings are making them sick and they want expensive removal and replacement with expensive new ones, I think I’d call my broker to set up a new investment. BiNM

Response:

Paul/Joyce Eberl <ebe…@ERINET.COM> wrote: >Lois Casson wrote: >> And I know >> that I, for one, don’t have the time to get through all the messages, let >> alone a long series of medical reports. >Amen, Lois, amen. >                                Paul Eberl >                 it’s better to TRY and RISK failure than >                       not to try and guarrantee it!

  (So why not practice what you preach?) >                                    = >                                   | | >                               __  | | >                              (__@)   ______ >                              (__@) >                              (__@)   _______ >                              (__@)__/

Prehaps paul, if you are really worried about cluttering up this groups mail, you should choose a shorter sig? Amalgam makes up much less than <1% of this groups overall average traffic – so what is wrong with that? Maybe the subject just touches a raw nerve for you and one or two others. But there are also those who do have an open mind.. You complain that "amalgam-illness is crap" (paraphrased), and I post reasonable evidence to the contrary, you seem unable to reply to this, so instead you imply the subject should not be discussed? hmm.. I am not peddling snake oil. I am not here because I get perverse joy from bombarding your mailbox with unwanted mail. I would like a serious, maybe technical, debate about the role of toxins in MS – an issue that is neglected by mainstream MS research in it pusuit of Genetical/other factors. Is that so unreasonable? cheers ade To learn more about the Amalgam safety issue (or lack of) visit:-   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcsol

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -pc…@TCP.CO.UK wrote: > Paul/Joyce Eberl <ebe…@ERINET.COM> wrote: > >Lois Casson wrote: > >> And I know > >> that I, for one, don’t have the time to get through all the messages, let > >> alone a long series of medical reports. > >Amen, Lois, amen. >   (So why not practice what you preach?) > Prehaps paul, if you are really worried about cluttering up this > groups mail, you should choose a shorter sig? > Amalgam makes up much less than <1% of this groups overall average > traffic – so what is wrong with that? Maybe the subject just touches > a raw nerve for you and one or two others. > But there are also those who do have an open mind.. > You complain that "amalgam-illness is crap" (paraphrased), and > I post reasonable evidence to the contrary, > you seem unable to reply to this, so instead you imply > the subject should not be discussed? > hmm.. > I am not peddling snake oil. I am not here because I get perverse joy > from bombarding your mailbox with unwanted mail. I would like a > serious, maybe technical, debate about the role of toxins in MS – an > issue that is neglected by mainstream MS research in it pusuit of > Genetical/other factors. > Is that so unreasonable?

LOOK, I’VE HAD JUST ABOUT ENOUGH OF THIS. I AM NOT PRO-AMALGAM. I AM OPEN-MINDED AND SKEPTICAL – ESPECIALLY WITH PEOPLE WHO FANATICALLY ADVOCATE ONE SIDE OR  ANOTHER ON AN ISSUE. YOUR SNIDE POSTINGS TO ME – ESPECIALLY THE COWARDLY PRIVATE EMAIL  ONES – MAKE ME TEMPTED TO TAKE THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS ISSUE. DON’T YOU KNOW ANYTHING  ABOUT NETTIQUETTE? WE ARE ALL TIRED OF HEARING YOU GO ON AND ON ABOUT AMALGAM. GET A  LIFE. THERE IS MORE TO MS THAN A-M-A-L-G-A-M. AND SINCE I AM NOT EITHER SIDE, I AM IN  NO POSITION TO DEBATE YOU. BESIDE, YOU CAN’T OPEN A CLOSED MIND. YOUR ASSERTION  THAT I AM CLUTTERING UP THIS GROUP’S MAIL IS PURE RUBBISH. YOU LEAVE MY SIGNATURE ALONE.  IT IS MY IDENTITY AND I WILL NOT HAVE ANYONE TELLING ME WHAT I CAN OR CANNOT DO. AND  HOW COME JUST ME? HOW ABOUT ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE ‘CLUTTERING UP’ THIS GROUP’S MAIL  WITH THEIR SIGNATURES – LIKE SUE’S CATS? OR CHERYL’S DRAGON? AND ALL THE OTHERS. NO, THAT  WAS A CHEAP, PERSONAL SHOT. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I’M GOING TO MODIFY IT IN THIS REPLY  JUST FOR YOU…                      /"                     |./|                     |   |                     |   |                     |>~<|                     |   |                  /’|   |/’..              /~|   |   |   |             |   =[@]=   |   |               |   |   |   |   |               | ~   ~   ~   ~ |`   )             |                   /                               /                             /                    _____    /                 |–//”`–|                 | (( +==)) |                 |–_|_//–|                 Paul Eberl

Response:

Lois Casson <LoisCas…@AOL.COM> wrote: >Hi all, >       In the past few days there have been many pages of information sent >concerning Amalgams…citations of many, many research reports.  I received >over 100 pages worth of messages in the list digest today, I thing that there >were something like 181 messages.  Is there anyone, like me, who would rather >have those who want to share all this data ask if there are any interested in >receiving it and then send it to them directly instead of posting to the >entire list? >       We have to remember that it is possible to obtain as many reports >opposing those that have been cited and that would really be an overload.  I >think that people have probably pretty well made up there minds about how >they feel about the subject, pro or con, on amalgam fillings.  And I know >that I, for one, don’t have the time to get through all the messages, let >alone a long series of medical reports.

Lois, I’m not an MS sufferer, although I did at one time have a lot of neurological symptoms that cleared up after I got rid of my amalgams. I’m not interested in saving anyone from themselves. And I understand and respect the fact that you don’t have the time to read all that material. We all have that problem sometimes. There are lots of issues that I don’t have the time to look into properly. However, what I don’t do is make up my mind based on that ignorance. I say "I don’t know" instead. I’m sorry, but I don’t know any nice way to say this: having strong opinions and not being interested in well-reasoned arguments against them is the definition of a closed mind. I’m surprised at the way this topic is treated in this newsgroup. I can understand this kind of attitude in dentists and others who have been denying this 150 years and don’t want to admit they’ve been wrong all this time. But why should MS sufferers be complacent about the fact that they’re being dosed with a poison with powerful effects on the immune system and the nervous system? I find that very strange. Regards, Dagfinn >Bye for now, >Lo in MO

——————————————————————— Dagfinn Reiersol    reier…@online.no Oslo, Norway Recent research on dental amalgam with comments: http://home.sol.no/reiersol/amalgam.htm ———————————————————————

Response:

reier…@online.no (Dagfinn Reiersol) wrote: >I’m surprised at the way this topic is treated in this newsgroup. I >can understand this kind of attitude in dentists and others who have >been denying this 150 years and don’t want to admit they’ve been wrong >all this time. But why should MS sufferers be complacent about the >fact that they’re being dosed with a poison with powerful effects on >the immune system and the nervous system? I find that very strange.

Thanks dagfinn, Thats just what I have been saying. I am not even saying 100% amalgam definately causes MS, just that I think there is evidence that deserves serious consideration. I suspect that, as time passes, MS will be subdivided down into different types of the disease – one of which may be the Hg induced variant.. I am pretty close to 100% sure that amalgam does cause neurological/other ailments – as you, me & others in the amalgam-field personally know to our costs. Some of the people posting here on amalgam dont realise how offensive some of the jokes/comments are – not personally to me so much, I have long given up being that offended by newgroup postings – but if they were to substitute the word "MS" instead of "amalgam" in thier "jokes", they may see my point.. As to Pauls earlier comment – I had a quick scan through my old outgoing mail, and I honestly couldnt see anything that was particularly offensive – I can only think he misread something.. All texts which may have been posted via EMAIL to someone on this group has also been posted to here too, so others can judge.. I think the point about mail volume on this group is valid – I can understand people being upset just by the quantity of stuff. Maybe sub-dividing this group into several – ie. "humour/chat" "research" "alternatives" "admin" (like the CFS group) is an idea.. The group "alt.support.mult-sclerosis.alternatives" is already running, although my access is intermittent at this time.. cheers ade To learn more about the Amalgam safety issue (or lack of) visit:-   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcsol

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lois Casson wrote: > Hi all, >        In the past few days there have been many pages of information sent > concerning Amalgams…citations of many, many research reports.  I received > over 100 pages worth of messages in the list digest today, I thing that there > were something like 181 messages.  Is there anyone, like me, who would rather > have those who want to share all this data ask if there are any interested in > receiving it and then send it to them directly instead of posting to the > entire list? >        We have to remember that it is possible to obtain as many reports > opposing those that have been cited and that would really be an overload.  I > think that people have probably pretty well made up there minds about how > they feel about the subject, pro or con, on amalgam fillings.  And I know > that I, for one, don’t have the time to get through all the messages, let > alone a long series of medical reports. > Bye for now, > Lo in MO

Amen, Lois, amen. —                                 Paul Eberl                  it’s better to TRY and RISK failure than                        not to try and guarrantee it!                                     =                                    | |                                __  | |                               (__@)   ______                               (__@)                               (__@)   _______                               (__@)__/

Response:

Paul/Joyce Eberl <ebe…@ERINET.COM> wrote: > YOUR SNIDE POSTINGS TO ME – ESPECIALLY THE COWARDLY PRIVATE EMAIL > ONES –

I have mailed absolutely NOTHING – I repeat NOTHING – to you that I havent also posted to the  group(s). I just mailed direct to you also, so you could see my replies  (this is common "netiquette" for questions on large groups) but clearly if you dont want it, I wont do it. OK? The other thing to mention – not EVERYTHING in those mails/postings is directed to you personally – I hoped that was evident from the quoting used. And snide? Have you re-read YOUR replies to my original postings here?? I think I was pretty understated really.. >MAKE ME TEMPTED TO TAKE THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS ISSUE. DON’T YOU KNOW ANYTHING > ABOUT >NETTIQUETTE? WE ARE ALL TIRED OF HEARING YOU GO ON AND ON ABOUT AMALGAM. GET A > LIFE. Got one thanks. >THERE IS MORE TO MS THAN A-M-A-L-G-A-M.

Never said otherwise. Have repeatedly asked for data/discussion on the possible role of TOXINS in MS – not just amalgam. > YOUR ASSERTION  THAT I AM >CLUTTERING UP THIS GROUP’S MAIL IS PURE RUBBISH. YOU LEAVE MY SIGNATURE ALONE. > IT IS >MY IDENTITY AND I WILL NOT HAVE ANYONE TELLING ME WHAT I CAN OR CANNOT DO. AND > HOW COME JUST ME?

Because your post implied I was wasting bandwidth on amalgam, so I took that very post (including its long sig) as an example. I almost added a "smily" to my comment on your tag – it was really a throw away line. No – it isnt personal – you want to rubbish my postings in a public group, expect a reply to them in a public group. You were bit sarcastic, so I was bit sarcastic too. Others are reading these public groups, so I will correct what I think are inaccuracies – as can anyone else. If you dont want to read it, just use an offline browser & dont read my messages. I will not be bothering replying to this thread now – this really IS a waste of time & bandwidth.

Response:

In article <595tle$h0…@o.online.no>, reier…@online.no (Dagfinn Reiersol) writes:

Dear Dag, >There is a difference between "I disagree" and "I don’t want to hear

about it".<< —-True enough.  Though I can’t speak for anyone else, I’ve been reading and hearing about this for over 7 years….I long ago did all the reading (which hasn’t changed much in those years) and listening I needed before making up my own mind.  So, even if it hasn’t been *all been repeated in *this ng, (though it sure seems like it) it’s information that has been circulating for years… >> But once more, if all you’re objecting to is repeated information, then

I apologize.< —Much Appreciated.  Also, I note that you mentioned that you do not have MS…so perhaps you may be unaware how much unsolicited information can be crammed down one’s throat as soon as anyone who believes in any product, concept, ‘miracle cure’ or treatment discovers we(I) have a disease with no known cure…  It gets a little like the ‘boy who cried wolf’ fable… After researching and responding to many of these within the first couple of years, I just had to put my "phasers on stun", and ignore everything except what my own body and common sense was telling me.  And that includes making up my mind about what I was told by the professionals"… I must also admit that I am also influenced by the number of thoughtless "acquaintances" of my brother, who called him incessantly with "If you’ll just do this" B.S., until I had all of his calls forwarded, while he was dying of extremely advanced esophogeal cancer… Then two months later, I was Dxd…and it began all over again.  So, I guess it’s TRULY a pet peeve of mine!    Nevertheless, I maintain a research file that is to be envied by some Neuros…on *all possibilities for improving my condition…   (However, should there be anyone lurking out there who would like to tell me of the magical healing I can get if only I go to that little clinic in Tijuana and be injected daily with extract of peach pitts…  Please save yourself the humiliation of my response!!)  ;-) <ggg> Dag, your letter was well written and well received.  Thank you. Judith

Response:

Hi all,        In the past few days there have been many pages of information sent concerning Amalgams…citations of many, many research reports.  I received over 100 pages worth of messages in the list digest today, I thing that there were something like 181 messages.  Is there anyone, like me, who would rather have those who want to share all this data ask if there are any interested in receiving it and then send it to them directly instead of posting to the entire list?        We have to remember that it is possible to obtain as many reports opposing those that have been cited and that would really be an overload.  I think that people have probably pretty well made up there minds about how they feel about the subject, pro or con, on amalgam fillings.  And I know that I, for one, don’t have the time to get through all the messages, let alone a long series of medical reports. Bye for now, Lo in MO

Response:

Lois Casson <LoisCas…@AOL.COM> wrote: >Hi all, >       In the past few days there have been many pages of information sent >concerning Amalgams…citations of many, many research reports.  I received >over 100 pages worth of messages in the list digest today, I thing that there >were something like 181 messages.  Is there anyone, like me, who would rather >have those who want to share all this data ask if there are any interested in >receiving it and then send it to them directly instead of posting to the >entire list?

If mail throuput is a problem, you may be better off using "free agent" or an offline mail reader to pick the bones of the articles you want offline, rather than subscribe to this list via email, which will inevitably have a high volume – most of which is non-amalgam related. I posted research evidence because of the very strong assertion by some people that the amalgam issue was just a load of rubbish, to be lumped in with aliens & "weird stuff" – I am trying to prove that mercury poisoning is a very well established scientific fact, & further Hg poisoning from amalgam is equally a reality supported by respected toxicologists. I could have posted a lot more.. cheers ade   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pcsol

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