Talk Cancer

Question:

I had a friend who believed in enemas for health.   …I asked him, if evolution had supplied him with a brain, arguably the most complicated structure in the known universe, how was it that the same developmental process left him with a defective colon, incapable of performing what is a relatively simple set of duties. The answer to that one is that nature didn’t anticipate Big Macs. What on earth is this supposed to mean?  Do you suppose that our ancestors never ate a lot of meat at one sitting?

Gee, you sound angry.

Response:

The answer to that one is that nature didn’t anticipate Big Macs. What on earth is this supposed to mean?  Do you suppose that our ancestors never ate a lot of meat at one sitting? Gee, you sound angry.

Not hardly.  Just pointing out that you were spouting nonsense. If you don’t enjoy such responses, then don’t spout nonsense.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

Gee, you sound angry.

Why is it that people who have no facts make comments on the supposed emotional  state of the person posting facts? Why not deal with wether he is telling the truth, and not on if he is smiling  while he is typing? Never mind, I know the answer. Jet Silverman to email me, remove the "X"

Response:

The answer to that one is that nature didn’t anticipate Big Macs. You said it.  We need a redesign job on our bowels so we can take the food industry junk food.  Hate to do them out of any profit.

So don’t eat junk food if you don’t want to.  Me, sometimes I do. Someone is forcing you to consume the stuff at gunpoint?  Why are you so upset about it? What on earth is this supposed to mean?  Do you suppose that our ancestors never ate a lot of meat at one sitting? We know you are decended from neanderthal man, so eating meat may have been your body design plan, but my body has a frugivore design plan which is little or no meat.  

No, your body has an omnivore design plan, no matter how much you stick your fingers in your ears and scream when someone tries to point this out to you. You’re not a frugivore, JS, you’re a fruitcake. Opinions are OK, but the truth is what matters.

Someone must have told you this — you aren’t in possession of enough truth to have concluded it for yourself.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

A lot of useless junk and insults.

Dear me, I do seem to get under the skin of a few people, don’t I? BTW, does anyone know what this silly little sod "Wildman" (I love these brave souls who post anonymously) is whining about?  I tried to check the cross-refs, but the articles have expired on my system.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

thanks for your input Kay. I read the next few post down the string. stating  basicly that only MDs were educated, and all alternative physicians were not  educated. Ludicrous, isn’t it. I clearly stated in the origional post that I  have 11 years of fully accredited university and college education. All  schools I graduated from are  American colleges or  universities, with full  accreditation from all national and regional accreditiation agencies. Thanks  for honoring my many years of academic work. It is a shame that others are  still bias, and themselves uneducated about education. You are quite right  there are many opinions among both lay people and professionals about colon  cleansing. I hope that my additions from the prospective of a trained  alternative physician that has done many barium examinations sheds some light  of some of these things. I just posted another peice on some ot the questions  that were asked. Thanks again Dr. J G Knox BA, DC

Response:

I’ve also gotten cleaned out to where I could eat an apple and two hours later shit it out, and my "feces" would smell like apple fragrance. This is not a lie.  I could do it because at that time I experimented with a strong colon cleansing program for months at a time and ate no "normal" foods.  I dropped from 170 to 125 also, and was not healthy in many ways.  But fecal matter, I found out, can be totally different than what we think it should be based upon our "normal" existence and experiences.  Some people are frutarians and they shit fruit, believe it or not, and it doesn’t even resemble the stuff you and I would shit.

Huh?  Who is this "you and I" you speak of?  What’s so unusual about fruit having very fast transit time, and being recognizable?   I thought that was pretty normal, and I don’t even "do" colon cleansing or enemas, usually…  nor am I a fruitarian.  (I can recognize some vegetables too, by their color and/or"scent" on the way out.) vitality

Response:

I had a friend who believed in enemas for health.   …I asked him, if evolution had supplied him with a brain, arguably the most complicated structure in the known universe, how was it that the same developmental process left him with a defective colon, incapable of performing what is a relatively simple set of duties. The answer to that one is that nature didn’t anticipate Big Macs. What on earth is this supposed to mean?  Do you suppose that our ancestors never ate a lot of meat at one sitting?

Yeah, I’d have to say that nature did anticipate a lot of rancid zebras. Pass the mayo (no pun intended.) atlas

Response:

I had a friend who believed in enemas for health.   …I asked him, if evolution had supplied him with a brain, arguably the most complicated structure in the known universe, how was it that the same developmental process left him with a defective colon, incapable of performing what is a relatively simple set of duties. The answer to that one is that nature didn’t anticipate Big Macs.

What on earth is this supposed to mean?  Do you suppose that our ancestors never ate a lot of meat at one sitting?      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

Okay, so strange looking stuff came out. What evidence do you have it’s abnormal or that removing it will improve your health in any way? — Carey Gregory

Response:

I had a friend who believed in enemas for health.   …I asked him, if evolution had supplied him with a brain, arguably the most complicated structure in the known universe, how was it that the same developmental process left him with a defective colon, incapable of performing what is a relatively simple set of duties.

The answer to that one is that nature didn’t anticipate Big Macs. I have found that most people who believe in colonics cannot name the #1 toxic by-product of metabolism, but it’s always fun to ask them.

Depends on what you mean by metabolism, what you mean by toxic and what you mean by #1.  Depending on these definitions, some possible answers are CO2 and urea.  Since we produce a lot more CO2 than urea, I’ll vote for CO2.

Response:

good question! certainly clay, psyllium husk etc. has to come through an does  form these long strings, and that would be very normal. In cadavers you often  see the colon filled with black tarry  material, however this is blood. People  often hemorrhage into the GI tract at death. This is also a normal finding.  A  more nagging concern, is that black tarry stools may well be blood. One of my  concerns with colonics and enemas, is that if you do see dark tarry looking  stools or results, that this may be digested blood. There is a  simple test  for this. If it is blood they should be seen on an emergency basis or they can  easily die. Bleeding into the bowel is a dangerous and often unrecognized  thing. Unless the bleeding is in the rectum or very lower bowel, it will be  digested and not look like blood. We always checked for this if there were  these kinds of stools or results observed in the return flow from the  colonics. As far as getting out toxins, and waste material from the colon that improves  health, yes, colonics and enemas do that. The nature of that material has not  been well studied to my knowledge. It should have, but I have seen no studies.  let me know if you are aware of such studies.  They should be there. I may  have just not found them. The colon is the avenue of discharge for many solid  waste that are very difficult to get out of the body by other ways. Most waste  is carbon dioxide, excreted via the lungs. The kidneys get rid of urea, and  balence the bodies electolytes. However both of these systems are very  specific in what they excrete. The colon is much more versitile in excretion,  and I believe this is a major reason that enemas and colonics have such a  positive effect on health. There are toxins that just are not easily dealth  with in other systems. In my next book I will deal with this in as much depth  as I can. However it is much misunderstood and all the claims of many very  good healers have not helped to make the waters less muddy in this issue. Let me close with just that thought, The colon is a very powerful organ of  elimination, and one that with our very perverted modern diet in America and  other developed coutries, that needs help to do its work.  Perhaps if we still  lived on all living fresh fruits and vegetables, then enemas would not have  such an immediate and positive effect on health. However, we dont. None of us  live like our primative ancestors. We are modern and we live in artificial  ways. Doing that we need help. Enemas and colonics are among the most natural  and historically used therapies for health.

Response:

Paul, I too have done some Jensen-type cleansing and, yes, saw the same kinds of stuff as some of the pictures in his book. But I always had this nagging thought that what we’re seeing is mostly the bentonite clay. Have you ever seen the same kind of stuff come out when you have not been drinking the recommended mix? Has anyone ever found this stuff in an autopsy?

Actually, what I was describing came from using Robert Gray’s herbal formula, which of course uses psyllium (responsible for much of the "bulk" in the endproduct).  I did use bentonite (instead of the herbs) before that, and there was a noticable difference.  I did it 15 years ago, so here is what memory tells me:  With clay (while juice fasting) you will possibly get large chunks of matter that do not resemble anything but a black or brown piece of rubber.  With Gray’s program, you will not get these chunks but will still get a lot of stringy things that resemble worms (but aren’t), plus material that simply looks bizarre to say the least. It is invariably hardened and I could not explain it in English very well at this moment.   The thing is, though, I juice fasted while doing it (for about four weeks, and then did nothing but fresh fruit for another 4 weeks).  Because of the fasting, there is no "extra" material to be processed and to confuse the end product’s identity.  It also intensifies the cleansing a lot, as I tried eating food and it just got everything confused.  Fasting meant that I had no input of food for weeks at a time, and yet there was this constant discharge of material that was not psyllium.  Now, most of it was psyllium, but psyllium is clear, colorless almost, and very soft and mushy.  The stuff I was eliminating was black at times and very rubbery. I tried to break it or tear it and it was very tough material.  It was hard to cut with a sharp knife.  And the striations in it were striking at times. Anyway, the thing I’ll never forget was the first week or two, where the gas was TREMENDOUS, as was the discharge of more fresh or recently deposited feces.  That’s the stuff that smells – not the older stuff. It made life interesting at work.  But after a couple of weeks suddenly it changed and became almost odorless, no bloating, no gas, no discomfort. Then I ate fruit and noticed the transit time was down to a couple of hours to maybe four hours.  This degraded as I introduced more normal foods. To this day I still wonder what the living hell it was that came out of me!  At times it just didn’t seem possible that anything black and rubbery could come out of the human body, but it did. I always suspected that the drag on our enzyme system to digest the intense amount of starch and cassein in, say, a pizza, had to lead to an overwhelming of the enzyme system at some point.  At that point, when you eat tons of "glue food" and there is nothing to take care of the glue, something bad is bound to happen.  That type and amount of glue could easily adhere to the walls of the alimentary canal, from the perspective of lay person.  Does it?  Who the hell knows?  All I can say is that it is highly plausible. Oh ya, this thread was about "enemas and health"!  Actually, you can’t do what I did without an enema bag and some experience in getting water up to the other end of the colon.  You cannot get some of this stuff to pass otherwise,  because of the consistency of it.  It is rubberlike, and peristalsis has a lot of trouble with it.  BTW, some of the rubber pieces were shaped in odd ways – bent, curved, etc., implying perhaps that they were adhered to a section of colon that was curved, etc. I read long ago about autopsy reports on the colon too, and I seem to remember them indicating a bizarre shape and size to some of the specimens.  But what’s weird is that if our society is really eating a glue-based diet for several generations, a bizarre and twisted colon may not shock too many people in the medical profession.  - paul

Response:

Enemas have been used in the alternative treatment of cancer, infectious disease as well as constipation. Do you know why enemas have been used in this way? What underlies the physiology of this treatment? Why has it been used for fasting and health for thousands of years? And, why is it now not fashionable in modern medical practice to do this? I have owned a colonic clinic for ten years. Have more than 11 years of fully accredited college and university education, as well as almost 20 years of practice as an alternative health care physician. If you have questions about this treatent, please post them, and email me directly so that we can discuss them.

I think clearing out the colon isn’t a bad idea, if the plumbing is clogged. Periodically we hear statements in the popular media like, "By the age of 50 the average American man has 5 pounds of meat in his intestines."  Proponents of colonic cleanses and fasts assert that there is a great deal of old foodstuff in our large intestines which is not moving. What I’d like to know is:  do we actually have evidence for this assertion? Another assertion I’d like to see proven is that many of us have worms.  Has there been a study to find out the prevalence of colonic worms in the average healthy adult? By the way, I’ve removed "alt.psychology" from the newsgroups list of this post, since it has nothing to do with psychology, and added "sci.med", "alt.health.fasting", and "misc.health.alternative".

Response:

I had a friend who believed in enemas for health.  He believed that the colon harbored reserves of "toxins" (none of which he could name) that needed to be flushed out. I asked him, if evolution had supplied him with a brain, arguably the most complicated structure in the known universe, how was it that the same developmental process left him with a defective colon, incapable of performing what is a relatively simple set of duties. He persisted in the notion that toxins were building up in the colon (he couldn’t tell me where) so I asked him how much of this toxic build up he felt the colon was burdened with every year, and then mathematically worked out how much I should weigh, given my age and having never had a colonic.  Well, I’m missing about 300 lbs. of toxic build up!  Go figure! I have found that most people who believe in colonics cannot name the #1 toxic by-product of metabolism, but it’s always fun to ask them. atlas

Response:

Hi, as the alternative physician that started this, thought I would just give a  thumbnail answer to some of your questions— no 1 toxin— CO2, carbondioxide— we exhale it no 2 toxin— amonia, we turn it into urea and urniate it there are many more that we produce. many are only eliminated through the  colon, sheding of the skin, sweat etc. The colon is an important mode of elimination, it also saves water, and is the  home of some very important bacteria, which make things we need like vitamin  B12 ect. There are a lot of ideas about cleansing, we wash every day, and I have had  patients who did enemaas everyday tilll well into their 90s without harm. I  have also had patients injured by incorrect ones. I am rambling, sorry. I will stop.  The use of enemas or colonics are  very  beneficial to health done properly. So dont be to hard on your friend. There  is a lot to learn about them, and a lot of the information given is often not  based on a good knowledge of anatomy and physiology. I will try to answer your questions, more completely next time Dr. J G Knox BA, DC

Response:

Ask a professional alternative practitioner about it. I believe

"littlepapy" is a doctor and I personally agree with most of what he states. He also posts about what he has personally seen in his practice. Don’t get your questions answered by uneducated people, though. If I understand your post; you don’t want to ask a medical doctor, but an "alternative practitioner." Then you say, "Don’t get your questions answered by uneducated people." Would you resolve this conflicting statement?

Response:

hi, thanks for your response and moving my post to a more appropriate site(s).  First as to the pounds of old waste in the intestine. It doesnt exist. I have  done hundredsof barium enema studies on patients, and in those studies only  once have I seen what could be crusting or areas of the bowel caked with old  material, and even then it was questionable. I have written about five pages  on this in my book LOVE THINE ENEMAS & HEAL THYSELF,  in the chapter on  colonic irrigations. However, the thought behind the claim I believe to be  very true. What we see, and I am sure you will see if you pay close attention  to it is that there is a marked slowing of the transit time from the time food  is eaten until it is expelled in many health conditions, such as colds, flu  and various infections. The normal GI tract contains approxiamtely 3 pounds  of, at least so I am told, would like to see the reference on this myself,  bacteria. This under normal circumstances is normal flora— bacteria we  require to live. It there is a retarded transit time there would be more waste  in the tract as well.  What doe happen if transit time is  slowed, or there is  meat in the diet, the waste has time to putrify in the system. This does cause  health problems to numerous to get into here. As far as old material being  caught in the haustra of the colon— I may be possible, I dont think it is  common. However, on doing thousands of colonics there are patterns of clearing etc.  sometimes a large amount of feces is released, sometimes a lot of white  flakes. People have various transit times, and it may be that one or two  pockets on people with less than perfect bowel health may not be functioning  as well. One thing I have observed and it is my opinion of what is happening  is that toxic material, once a flushing of the bowel is started is transported  to the GI tract for discharge. I do not have the mechanisms of this worked  out, nor have I seen it doccumented elsewhere. It is just that I see what the  therapist refer to as old stuff comming out of the bowel. I also have seen the  great releif and feeling of well being in patients following such a cleansing.  I also know it cant have come from the bowel because I have seen the barium  enemas and colonoscopys in which it is not there. So if it is there on  colonics, if must be and come from somewhere else! My guess is the liver and  fat, actively discharging waste. But it is not in the colon. Prevelance of colonic worms? Not a clue. On the one hand many people are  claiming everyone has them. Other groups claim almost none of us do. I would  suspect that the truth is somewhere inbetween, but I have not personally  investigated this. I know that parasites are a problem, and that they can very  easily be in the bowel. I really dont know all the aspects of this, and to be  honest I have not studied it in enough depth to give a good educated guess.  Parasites are a more unique problem. They were designed to live off of us in  good health. Most disease we see in the modern world is however the result of  incorrect living and bad habits, rather than normal pathenogens. My emphasis  in treatment has always been correct living,  and developing the inter  strength to handle the external world. Some among our number will always be  destroyed by the environment, including parasites, but far more will survive  if we at least consider first our own health, and what we can do to make it  better. We know that about 20% of all Americans die from smoking.  Colon  cancer and other diseases that are primarily diet  and lifestyle make up the  great bulk of all deaths and illnesses in the modern world, still we are more  fascinated with those things that can eat us, like parasites. Colon cleansing,  via enema or colonic irrigation, help increase the health of individuals by  increasing normal elimination, rehydration and purification. They may also  remove some toxins, parasites and bacteria, but these continue to reoccur  unless the cause is eliminated. I know these answers are incomplete. Books have been written on these. Thanks for asking Dr. J G Knox BA,DC

Response:

=20   =20 Jerry Sturdivant wrote in article = If I understand your post; you don’t want to ask a medical doctor, but = an "alternative practitioner." Then you say, "Don’t get your questions answered by uneducated people." Would you resolve this conflicting statement?

Actually, I think "littlepapy" is an MD. I meant uneducated as in anyone = who has no medical background, whether it be alternative or = conventional. Bluntly, people who frequent the newsgroup with biased = opinions who have no formal education  whatsoever. Sorry for the = conflict. Kay — kay at http://www.herbcare.com or — slade at http://www.pensys.com/pages/slade

Response:

Ask a professional alternative practitioner about it. I believe = "littlepapy" is a doctor

He’s not an MD. I think clearing out the colon isn’t a bad idea, if the plumbing is clogged.

Which it almost never is, and mild constipation is either self- correcting or can be fixed up with an OTC laxative. Periodically we hear statements in the popular media like, "By the age of 50 the average American man has 5 pounds of meat in his intestines."  Proponents of colonic cleanses and fasts assert that there is a great deal of old foodstuff in our large intestines which is not moving. What I’d like to know is:  do we actually have evidence for this assertion?

No, but we have a hell of a lot of evidence that it’s not true.  Like the legions of proctologists out there never report seeing it. Five pounds of meat in the intestines, pfui.  Take a look at five pounds of ground beef in the store some time and consider how much volume it has.  No way is that going to be stashed in your intestines without blocking them completely.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

Ask a professional alternative practitioner about it. I believe "littlepapy" is a doctor and I personally agree with most of what he states. He also posts about what he has personally seen in his practice. Don’t get your questions answered by uneducated people, though. If I understand your post; you don’t want to ask a medical doctor, but an "alternative practitioner." Then you say, "Don’t get your questions answered by uneducated people." Would you resolve this conflicting statement?

let’s talk about the technical question. are there any benefits to enemas? i am unaware of any studies that promote enemas for any reason other than a lower gi exam. this has been around for many years (at least 50).

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a friend who believed in enemas for health.  He believed that the colon harbored reserves of "toxins" (none of which he could name) that needed to be flushed out. I asked him, if evolution had supplied him with a brain, arguably the most complicated structure in the known universe, how was it that the same developmental process left him with a defective colon, incapable of performing what is a relatively simple set of duties. He persisted in the notion that toxins were building up in the colon (he couldn’t tell me where) so I asked him how much of this toxic build up he felt the colon was burdened with every year, and then mathematically worked out how much I should weigh, given my age and having never had a colonic.  Well, I’m missing about 300 lbs. of toxic build up!  Go figure! I have found that most people who believe in colonics cannot name the #1 toxic by-product of metabolism, but it’s always fun to ask them. atlas

Atlas, I think if you look at any of Bernard Jensen’s books you’ll see tons of photos of what comes out of the human colon when the conditions (cleansing) are right.  I have seen photos of some kind of imaging of human colons that showed that they can get so distended with caked-on matter that they don’t even resemble a colon anymore.  Their shape gets very twisted, contracted in places, and ballooned in other places.  Very alarming, indeed. I don’t know what proof there is about the composition of this material in the colon.  I’ve gotten some of it out (not with colonics, but other methods) and it’s bizarre looking stuff with the consitency of rubber – like from a rubber tire.  That is the lower or deeper layers of it, once you’ve removed the more normal mucosy type stuff above it.  The composition, if you want to call it "mucos" or totally dried "mucos" may not be inaccurate at all.  I think if you consider the binding effect of cheese and the gluten (glue) in white flour you can see that sticky and mucos-producing foods might actually become adhered to the walls of the colon (or small intestine for that matter) especially if eaten in quantity, outstripping the available enzymes, etc.   I remember many times sitting down and mowing down a small or medium pizza, and I think you can see that such a meal is probably 95% mucos related – very sticky, gluey, and hard to move through the bowel. I’ve also gotten cleaned out to where I could eat an apple and two hours later shit it out, and my "feces" would smell like apple fragrance. This is not a lie.  I could do it because at that time I experimented with a strong colon cleansing program for months at a time and ate no "normal" foods.  I dropped from 170 to 125 also, and was not healthy in many ways.  But fecal matter, I found out, can be totally different than what we think it should be based upon our "normal" existence and experiences.  Some people are frutarians and they shit fruit, believe it or not, and it doesn’t even resemble the stuff you and I would shit. But that is off the subject, somewhat.  Hope the above helped. – paul

Response: