Talk Cancer

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, Nick, your rambling post makes little sense to me.  But from what I could discern, I respond to here: First, remember that this (and you’ve cross-posted) is a *medication* forum; we’re here to (primarily) discuss pharmacological approaches to depression. Second, many, many people–myself included–are grateful beneficiaries of psychiatry.  I’ve also benefitted much from the psychotherapies. However, *nothing* has affected my depression as much as drug therapy, and I’m very thankful for it. That you don’t personally know "anyone over 40" who has recovered from an affective disorder via psychiatry doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who have–including the next First Lady. It’s no wonder that bitch needs a psychiatrist, she’s uptight and married to that bump on a log.

Lol. You’re sounding rather emotional for someone calling himself "Lobotomy Mike." And according to her, Tipper finished her trial with Zoloft many years ago. JM  I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s heavily medicated to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – deal with such. The way Al looks, he’s probably been dipping in her bottle of Zoloft. Lobotomy Mike JM If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting each other up?.Many people would rather just smoke their weed and complain, be cynical , and think their psychiatric doct gives a darn about them.Wait until your insurance runs our or you turn forty , or you happen to get your life force burnt out by a doctor who prescribes shock (yes it still being done) or its time to see "another physician (hahah) ,then the reality will set in.If meds were so good now why all the behavior experiment groups where they ask you join for exp.drugs?.This bull has been going on for years.I don’t have anything against trying to get new drugs but don’t buy into thinking you are suppose to smoke cigarettes , be a good patient and go on disablity and things will one day return to normal.They will not! Its amazing how few here or most depression groups understand or discuss family issues , bradshaw or other issues  ,My idea is not to argue but to present a view that will sustain real change.Its hard to go the natural route but easy compared to going through the prescribed medication , psychiatric mess some attune to.I have yet to see anyone in my 40 years get better who had acute depression or anxiety. Before you buy. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting each other up?.Many people would rather just smoke their weed and complain, be cynical , and think their psychiatric doct gives a darn about them.Wait until your insurance runs our or you turn forty , or you happen to get your life force burnt out by a doctor who prescribes shock (yes it still being done) or its time to see "another physician (hahah) ,then the reality will set in.If meds were so good now why all the behavior experiment groups where they ask you join for exp.drugs?.This bull has been going on for years.I don’t have anything against trying to get new drugs but don’t buy into thinking you are suppose to smoke cigarettes , be a good patient and go on disablity and things will one day return to normal.They will not! Its amazing how few here or most depression groups understand or discuss family issues , bradshaw or other issues  ,My idea is not to argue but to present a view that will sustain real change.Its hard to go the natural route but easy compared to going through the prescribed medication , psychiatric mess some attune to.I have yet to see anyone in my 40 years get better who had acute depression or anxiety. No, because depression and anxiety are not things that exist independently of the self, some kind of disease that can be eradicated. They are PARTS of the self, not independent, but interwoven.

I don’t think that anyone here would argue this point; clearly depression and anxiety are "interwoven" with (other parts of the sufferer). "There is no drug to take away anxiety and depression without eliminated [sic] parts of the self altogether."

It may be true that for some people, some psychotropics’ therapeutic effect consists in the blunting of emotions, but to say that this is the case for everyone would be a lie. Moreover, those who enjoy relief from psychic pain via the modality above are often grateful for it. Why is it any different from another patient experiencing analgesia for severe physical pain–analgesia that "blunts" his response to or experience of, other, unrelated pain stimuli? In this group, you will find that people believe that they have a "disease". and will act like they have absolutely no responsibility for it. They will even act like they have al these negative feeligs and have absolutely no idea why. I guess this makes it easier to rationalize popping a pill instead of changing their lives to to make them come into line with what their conscious is telling them. But hey, it’s easier to take a pill and eradicate the conscious right?

This ng exists to confer about medication-related approaches to depression.  It isn’t sensible to infer from posts here that the authors don’t also inquire into *many* other things for information on how to deal with depression. When people cry or are lonely or can’t get out of bed and you ask them why, I guarantee they will give you an answer saying "life sucks", "nobody cares about me", "there’s no purpose to life", "I’m lonely", etc. But psychiatry mixed with pharmacology has convinced the masses that thoughts and feelings are not only invalid, but also need to be eradicated through drugs which bring everything into "balance". It’s a lie, plain and simple. It’s nothing but a faulty belief system mixed with crude science.

I happen to think that depression in particular–or the term–is abused regularly; but the picture you paint is overly cynical.  And we have to remember the *core* reason for psychopharmacology: the mentally ill. That many people suffering from reactive malaise, despondence, and anxiety are prescribed antidepressants doesn’t make psychotropic use in those who "really" need it less justified; you need to separate the issues. Funny thing is, when and if a drug seems to improve the quality of someones life (by making them more able to talk to people, get out of bed, face their fears, etc.), they are no longer fully present in their body to experience it.

On what do you base this opinion?  How can you tell whether a particular person is "fully present"?  It’s a subjective term anyway. And it is irrelevent to those (many) who would tell you that they’re happy with the effect a particular drug has or has had on them. In effect they had to kill part of themselves so the other part could live.

Even if this were true, it doesn’t differ from other diseases: chemotherapy and radiation literally kill cancer cells–which are a part of the sufferer–so that other parts–the person–may live. In leukemia, white blood cells essentially need to be killed–or diminshed, halted, etc. so that "other ‘parts’ can live." Finally, and I’ve said this often, I think that your posts like this one derive mostly from your anger about your own failure to recover from depression.  Of course this is fully understandable; who wouldn’t be angry?  Also, your anger belies your claim to be "numbed" or emotionless due to past (psychiatric) drug use. JM Lobotomy Mike Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Well, Nick, your rambling post makes little sense to me.  But from what I could discern, I respond to here: First, remember that this (and you’ve cross-posted) is a *medication* forum; we’re here to (primarily) discuss pharmacological approaches to depression. Second, many, many people–myself included–are grateful beneficiaries of psychiatry.  I’ve also benefitted much from the psychotherapies. However, *nothing* has affected my depression as much as drug therapy, and I’m very thankful for it. That you don’t personally know "anyone over 40" who has recovered from an affective disorder via psychiatry doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who have–including the next First Lady.

It’s no wonder that bitch needs a psychiatrist, she’s uptight and married to that bump on a log. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s heavily medicated to deal with such. The way Al looks, he’s probably been dipping in her bottle of Zoloft. Lobotomy Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JM If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting each other up?.Many people would rather just smoke their weed and complain, be cynical , and think their psychiatric doct gives a darn about them.Wait until your insurance runs our or you turn forty , or you happen to get your life force burnt out by a doctor who prescribes shock (yes it still being done) or its time to see "another physician (hahah) ,then the reality will set in.If meds were so good now why all the behavior experiment groups where they ask you join for exp.drugs?.This bull has been going on for years.I don’t have anything against trying to get new drugs but don’t buy into thinking you are suppose to smoke cigarettes , be a good patient and go on disablity and things will one day return to normal.They will not! Its amazing how few here or most depression groups understand or discuss family issues , bradshaw or other issues  ,My idea is not to argue but to present a view that will sustain real change.Its hard to go the natural route but easy compared to going through the prescribed medication , psychiatric mess some attune to.I have yet to see anyone in my 40 years get better who had acute depression or anxiety. Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

Well, Nick, your rambling post makes little sense to me.  But from what I could discern, I respond to here: First, remember that this (and you’ve cross-posted) is a *medication* forum; we’re here to (primarily) discuss pharmacological approaches to depression. Second, many, many people–myself included–are grateful beneficiaries of psychiatry.  I’ve also benefitted much from the psychotherapies. However, *nothing* has affected my depression as much as drug therapy, and I’m very thankful for it. That you don’t personally know "anyone over 40" who has recovered from an affective disorder via psychiatry doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who have–including the next First Lady. JM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting each other up?.Many people would rather just smoke their weed and complain, be cynical , and think their psychiatric doct gives a darn about them.Wait until your insurance runs our or you turn forty , or you happen to get your life force burnt out by a doctor who prescribes shock (yes it still being done) or its time to see "another physician (hahah) ,then the reality will set in.If meds were so good now why all the behavior experiment groups where they ask you join for exp.drugs?.This bull has been going on for years.I don’t have anything against trying to get new drugs but don’t buy into thinking you are suppose to smoke cigarettes , be a good patient and go on disablity and things will one day return to normal.They will not! Its amazing how few here or most depression groups understand or discuss family issues , bradshaw or other issues  ,My idea is not to argue but to present a view that will sustain real change.Its hard to go the natural route but easy compared to going through the prescribed medication , psychiatric mess some attune to.I have yet to see anyone in my 40 years get better who had acute depression or anxiety.

Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting each other up?.Many people would rather just smoke their weed and complain, be cynical , and think their psychiatric doct gives a darn about them.Wait until your insurance runs our or you turn forty , or you happen to get your life force burnt out by a doctor who prescribes shock (yes it still being done) or its time to see "another physician (hahah) ,then the reality will set in.If meds were so good now why all the behavior experiment groups where they ask you join for exp.drugs?.This bull has been going on for years.I don’t have anything against trying to get new drugs but don’t buy into thinking you are suppose to smoke cigarettes , be a good patient and go on disablity and things will one day return to normal.They will not! Its amazing how few here or most depression groups understand or discuss family issues , bradshaw or other issues  ,My idea is not to argue but to present a view that will sustain real change.Its hard to go the natural route but easy compared to going through the prescribed medication , psychiatric mess some attune to.I have yet to see anyone in my 40 years get better who had acute depression or anxiety.

No, because depression and anxiety are not things that exist independently of the self, some kind of disease that can be eradicated. They are PARTS of the self, not independent, but interwoven. There is no drug to take away anxiety and depression without eliminated parts of the self altogether. In this group, you will find that people believe that they have a "disease". and will act like they have absolutely no responsibility for it. They will even act like they have al these negative feeligs and have absolutely no idea why. I guess this makes it easier to rationalize popping a pill instead of changing their lives to to make them come into line with what their conscious is telling them. But hey, it’s easier to take a pill and eradicate the conscious right? When people cry or are lonely or can’t get out of bed and you ask them why, I guarantee they will give you an answer saying "life sucks", "nobody cares about me", "there’s no purpose to life", "I’m lonely", etc. But psychiatry mixed with pharmacology has convinced the masses that thoughts and feelings are not only invalid, but also need to be eradicated through drugs which bring everything into "balance". It’s a lie, plain and simple. It’s nothing but a faulty belief system mixed with crude science. Funny thing is, when and if a drug seems to improve the quality of someones life (by making them more able to talk to people, get out of bed, face their fears, etc.), they are no longer fully present in their body to experience it. In effect they had to kill part of themselves so the other part could live. Lobotomy Mike Before you buy.

Response:

If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting each other up?.Many people would rather just smoke their weed and complain, be cynical , and think their psychiatric doct gives a darn about them.Wait until your insurance runs our or you turn forty , or you happen to get your life force burnt out by a doctor who prescribes shock (yes it still being done) or its time to see "another physician (hahah) ,then the reality will set in.If meds were so good now why all the behavior experiment groups where they ask you join for exp.drugs?.This bull has been going on for years.I don’t have anything against trying to get new drugs but don’t buy into thinking you are suppose to smoke cigarettes , be a good patient and go on disablity and things will one day return to normal.They will not! Its amazing how few here or most depression groups understand or discuss family issues , bradshaw or other issues  ,My idea is not to argue but to present a view that will sustain real change.Its hard to go the natural route but easy compared to going through the prescribed medication , psychiatric mess some attune to.I have yet to see anyone in my 40 years get better who had acute depression or anxiety.

Response:

Good points. I have thought them through myself in the past. Unfortnately there is no ABSOLUTE truth. As you say my present views are based on MY experience as are everyone’s. I think that our western form of thought coupled with our education does not allow us to see all sides of the story, though. There is so much more to mental health than a chemical imbalance point of view. AND psychiatry acts as if it exists in a vacuum paying no heed to many other variable that relate and affect a person’s psyche, including but not limited to: Family Dynamic Work Atmosphere Self Esteem Sexuality Hope in Future Regrets from Past Culture Social Life Spirituality To name a few. To dismiss all these things and concentrate on this or that neurochemical is insane. And it’s fucking dangerous. Anyone can swallow a pill to eliminate psychic pain like curing a headache. And with the ease of such people are led to believe tht they no longer have the responsibility to adapt or change the other aspects of their lives to achieve mental well being. It is no surprise that religion has been dealing with the same things as psychiatry for thousands of years- fear, loneliness, self worth, melancholia, etc. These things have been here as long as man has. And man has always had to work to keep these things in check in himself. But they DO have a purpose or they wouldn’t be part of us. At present we live in a time of unshakeabe belief in "science" to cure all of our ills. And because of this psychiatry has designated itself as having the answers to all the problems of self. Lbotomy Mike Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – LOL That was really funny Mike. I agree, ole Hillary acts about like she needs an enema. Or maybe she just needs to get fucked in the ass…bet she would secretly like it. LOL Id like to have phone sex with Hillary sometime. I bet I could get her to admit that "deep down inside she was nothing but a slut." LOL Nah, I bet Hillary is really a lez what with all her "I hate men" talk and attitude. Deep down inside she wishes she had been born with a dick and that is why she is so uptight acting…internally she is angry at herself…feels she has to prove she is as good as a man. She reminds me of some of the female professors I had in college at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro…man am I glad I got out of that fucking place. Eric

I bet at the end of each day ol’ Bill would whisper into Hillary’s ear how he stuck a cigar up Monica’s twat and then Hillar would lick Monica’s juices off Bill’s unit. Everyone can’t believe that Hillary stuck by Bill during all that. But it’s probably because she wanted to do the bitch too, but had to settle with living vicariously through Billy. Lobotomy Mike I asked my Psychiatrist "what good had come out of our endless meetings?" He took me outside the office and showed me his brand new red Porsche. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Before you buy.

Response:

Hey, my newsreaders down so I’ve read your replies at another site and have to respond to your first post here. I too have had my life force removed completely by drugs and must say that someday, somebody’s (the doc) is going to pay for this shit. I was always a tense person and somebody recommended I see a shrink and the motherfucker killed me. It’s like a fucking nightmare. Anyway, Sally Jessy Raphael makes me sick. I see these poor kids who want the freedom and have not accepted the compromises one must make to get along in this world (ie they haven’t been beat down yet). And they send them to boot camp to break them like an animal. And everyone cheers when they come back broken and hug their tormentors. What does that say about the audience? Their just a bunch of sheep that won’t be happy until everybody is brought into the fold. Incidentally, before I started meds, I was the rebel at work, insofar I would stand up for the little guy. Or stand up against management for the rights of the workers. I was the odd man out of the system. And when I quit because I couldn’t take the bulshit, they recommended I see a shrink to deal with my "problems". I did, got medicated, and became happy yes-man Mike. They drained the force right out of me and I didn’t even see it until it was too late. Amos, I don’t know how much is due to faulty chemistry and how much to the other things I listed, but I will say I know a Psychotic, schizophrenic person who hears voices. You know what the voices say? They scream at her to take her medication and that she will have to go to a mental institution. That’s it, it’s all about the punishment of the mental institution. So clealy, the reality of her external circumstances has at least aided in creating or magnify her problem. It’s ironic that the "treatment" for the problem she has, has caused the roblem to magnify and spin out of control. Not to mention that this person was intellligent and as normal as anyone else 90% of the time, but after years of drug treatment is dull and blunted even when off meds. This same person itches night and day because of a side ffect of a drug she took many years ago. Funny, now it’s just viewed as part of her "illness". Just like everything thy did to me is just part of "my illness" now. In fact after the first week of Effexor when my dick went numb, my doctor told me it must be part of my illness and same thing when I lost emotions several weeks in. These things are crimes. Lobotomy Mike Before you buy.

Response:

LOL that was funny Mike. Eric I asked my Psychiatrist "what good had come out of our endless meetings?" He took me outside the office and showed me his brand new red Porsche. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

How do I delete all these replies from my computer? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unfortunatley, you speak with authority on topics about which that you could not possibly have objective knowledge. Your premises need to be accepted before the rest of your logic can be weighed. I find them to be faulty. Your _opinion_ on the subject is duly noted. Joseph You’re right. NOTHING can be KNOWN objectively except our own existence (DesCartes). But this doesn’t stop me, or anyone else, from formulating a representative reality based upon my experiences, of which I have a few. But again, yes you’re right. Like I said there is no ABSOLUTE truth, just mental representations, which BTW can be easily altered with a dose of this or that. Lobotomy Mike If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting <snip Before you buy.

Response:

LOL That was really funny Mike. I agree, ole Hillary acts about like she needs an enema. Or maybe she just needs to get fucked in the ass…bet she would secretly like it. LOL Id like to have phone sex with Hillary sometime. I bet I could get her to admit that "deep down inside she was nothing but a slut." LOL Nah, I bet Hillary is really a lez what with all her "I hate men" talk and attitude. Deep down inside she wishes she had been born with a dick and that is why she is so uptight acting…internally she is angry at herself…feels she has to prove she is as good as a man. She reminds me of some of the female professors I had in college at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro…man am I glad I got out of that fucking place. Eric I asked my Psychiatrist "what good had come out of our endless meetings?" He took me outside the office and showed me his brand new red Porsche. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Unfortunatley, you speak with authority on topics about which that you could not possibly have objective knowledge. Your premises need to be accepted before the rest of your logic can be weighed. I find them to be faulty. Your _opinion_ on the subject is duly noted. Joseph

You’re right. NOTHING can be KNOWN objectively except our own existence (DesCartes). But this doesn’t stop me, or anyone else, from formulating a representative reality based upon my experiences, of which I have a few. But again, yes you’re right. Like I said there is no ABSOLUTE truth, just mental representations, which BTW can be easily altered with a dose of this or that. Lobotomy Mike If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting <snip

Before you buy.

Response:

Unfortunatley, you speak with authority on topics about which that you could not possibly have objective knowledge. Your premises need to be accepted before the rest of your logic can be weighed. I find them to be faulty. Your _opinion_ on the subject is duly noted. Joseph If there was a drug that could make people fall asleep without it becoming addictive or to stablize the symptoms of depression, do you think so many people would be posting about feeling hopeless or cutting

<snip

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, Nick, your rambling post makes little sense to me.  But from what I could discern, I respond to here: First, remember that this (and you’ve cross-posted) is a *medication* forum; we’re here to (primarily) discuss pharmacological approaches to depression. Second, many, many people–myself included–are grateful beneficiaries of psychiatry.  I’ve also benefitted much from the psychotherapies. However, *nothing* has affected my depression as much as drug therapy, and I’m very thankful for it. That you don’t personally know "anyone over 40" who has recovered from an affective disorder via psychiatry doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty who have–including the next First Lady. It’s no wonder that bitch needs a psychiatrist, she’s uptight and married to that bump on a log. Lol. You’re sounding rather emotional for someone calling himself "Lobotomy Mike."

JM, when I say I don’t have emotions I don’t mean I don’t have viewpoints. Whatever part of the bain that adds "depth" and body and response (sweating, heartbeat, warm and fuzzies, horniness, relaxation, pleasure, satisfaction, lust,etc.) to things is flattened. Just as Christopher Reeves surely can’t feel "butterflies" when nervous because he is disconnected from his body below the neck, I am disconnected from my entire body and brain when it comes to getting feedback about how I feel. Think of Mr. Spock. Actually though, my exisence is more like a ghost, not conected to anything at all. But I still have all the subconscious or automatic functions that allow me to walk and talk. It’s the "feedback" that’s gone. Incidentally, I find humor to be a thought or response which in "normal" persons sets off emotions. I still have humor, but merely as thought. Lobotomy Mike And according to her, Tipper finished her trial with Zoloft many years ago. JM  I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s heavily medicated to deal with such. The way Al looks, he’s probably been dipping in her bottle of Zoloft. Lobotomy Mike JM

Before you buy.

Response: