Gorilla Glue…Yay or Nay?

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Question:

Dave, thanks for setting the record straight. Acetone is the active ingredient in some nail polish removers. It used to be in all of them but non-acetone products were developed for women who used remover frequently and had skin problems affecting the nail cuticle and surrounding skin–the redness, dryness and cracking mentioned in your information. Acetone is certainly less toxic than ordinary household bleach. — Regards, Benoit Evans

Response:

"brocpuffs" writes: Acetone is a pure compound, it has no components except itself.

By definition, a VOC. These days, VOC’s are high on the no-no list. Read the warnings on the label of the container sometime. If you don’t want to take care of yourself by wearing simple protective clothing while handling, it’s your body. — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "brocpuffs" writes: Acetone is a pure compound, it has no components except itself. By definition, a VOC. These days, VOC’s are high on the no-no list. Read the warnings on the label of the container sometime. If you don’t want to take care of yourself by wearing simple protective clothing while handling, it’s your body. — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Unadulterated bullshit and a complete cop-out! If you are going to take a position on an issue, Lew, at least pick one you know something about. And when someone nails you on the facts, don’t try to slither off the hook with ad hominem arguments and silly non-sequeturs. To recap: You definitively and dismissively challenge this fellow with: Definitely not true, you need to do a little more research.

Then you offer expert information asserting what may be considered very specific harmful health effects of exposure to acetone (based, we may infer, on research) about skin penetration and ominous pronouncements about liver concentrations, along with a very "cogent" warning: You do not want to go there.

As if you, the sage, are too weary to be bothered with a reasoned argument for your point of view, and the untutored in this newsgroup are to simply accept without question your assertions. The fellow you challenge responded with information – which may be meaningless for the uninitiated in this area – but which nonetheless addresses the issue. Then you rejoin with an evasion. A pure compound is, by definition, you say, a VOC, whatever the Hell that may be. What is the definition of a VOC, by the way, and how does that relate to skin pentration and liver concentrations? Then more pseudo-scientific support for the evasion: These days, VOC’s are high on the no-no list.

Can you tell us where we can get a copy of the no-no list? Then some further admonition, again dismissive, about reading warning labels "sometime" – implying the fellow never read the warning label on acetone. Well, I went and read the warning label on my can of acetone and it says nothing about skin penetration, liver residue, or VOCs. Don’t get it in your eyes it says. Ditto on sawdust, blowing sand, paint chips, splinters, dirt, metal shavings and direct rays of the sun - dont get those in your eyes, either. But see below for more about getting acetone in the eyes. Now, no sane individual would swig, wash out his eyes, or take a bath in acetone, (the health studies cited below indicate that number of apparently less than sane individuals had intimate contact with few harmful results) and most have a healthy respect for it; but so far it is not clear that it is any more hazardous than or even as hazardous as other chemicals that we routinely encounter – paint, bleach, epoxy, ammonia – notwithstanding your unsubstantiated statements to the contrary. It is a pretty good solvent, and lots of folks use it without incident. To remove any lingering doubt, I have no knowledge of the health hazards of acetone, and you have demonstrated by your asinine comments that you have less. I don’t know how much expertise "brocpuffs" (what the Hell does that mean, anyway?) has, but his arguments far and away have more credibility than your unsupported assertions, which by their nature are totally unconvincing. So, off I went to Google in search of a smidgen of enlightenment, and the preponderance of information seems to weigh decisively against your view: http://www.google.com/search?q=harmful+effects+acetone&btnG=Google+Se… The Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety is one example of what appears to be unbiased (indeed if anything would be more Health Effects of Acetone: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/acetone/health… A sample of the relevant answers include the following: What are the long term health effects of exposure to acetone? SKIN: Prolonged or repeated contact may cause defatting of the skin and produce dermatitis (dryness, irritation, redness and cracking). INHALATION: Most human population studies indicate that acetone would not produced [sic] significant health effects following long-term exposure. In a series of studies, no statistically significant differences in causes of death or clinical laboratory results were observed in 948 employees exposed to up to 1070 ppm acetone over 23 years. Another study which reviewed 18 years of industrial experience with employees in a cellulose acetate production facility did not show an increased incidence of illness. One other study did not find significant changes in clinical chemistry tests conducted on 60 employees who had worked at least 5 years in the acetate fibre manufacturing industry (exposures of 550-1050 ppm). No conclusions can be drawn from other reports which have described effects following long-term acetone exposure. … Will acetone cause cancer? There is no human information. Animal information suggests that acetone is not carcinogenic. Can acetone hurt my eyes? Acetone vapour causes mild irritation at concentrations of around 500 ppm. Irritation is very noticeable at 1000 ppm. Liquid acetone is severely irritating, based on animal and limited human information. In 3 human cases, acetone caused corneal injury which completely healed within 48 hours. In one unusual case, liquid acetone was held directly on the eye for a long time. In this particular case, there was permanent damage to the eye, with clouding of the cornea. What happens if acetone is accidentally swallowed (enters the digestive system)? Ingestion is not a typical route of occupational exposure. Several studies report no effects or minor effects (slight drowsiness) in people who ingested up to 20 grams/day for several days. Animal toxicity information also suggests that acetone is not very toxic following ingestion. If acetone is aspirated (breathed into the lungs during ingestion or vomiting) it can cause severe, life-threatening lung injury. Animal information suggests that acetone would be difficult to aspirate because it evaporates so quickly. Based on its physical properties, acetone can be aspirated into the lungs during ingestion or vomiting. One case report describes a man who intentionally drank 200 mL (about 7 ounces) of acetone. Within one hour, he had flushed cheeks and appeared drunk. His breathing was shallow and his throat red and swollen. He soon lapsed into coma and did not regain consciousness for 12 hours. Four weeks later, he developed symptoms similar to diabetes (increased urination, thirst and blood sugar levels). The patient fully recovered within 5 months after the incident. and finally, Is there potential for acetone to build-up or accumulate in my body? Acetone is a normal by-product of mammalian metabolism and is found in virtually every organ and tissue, and in the blood. Acetone can enter the body by inhalation, ingestion or skin contact. Acetone is metabolized by a number of routes to compounds, which are used by the body to make glucose and other products of intermediary metabolism, with the generation of carbon dioxide. Acetone is excreted both unchanged, and following metabolism, mainly as carbon dioxide. The main route of excretion is in the expired air, with very little excreted in the urine. Respiratory excretion is complete within 20 hours after inhalation. The amount of unchanged acetone excreted in the urine increases with increasing exposure concentration and duration, and with exercise during exposure. So there you go. This post may at first seem a bit over the top, but few things are more annoying than self-proclaimed experts popping off on any subject that comes up, particularly those scolds who blithely tell people not to do something. One can get a lot of sound advice in this group, and most warnings are well founded, but you have stepped on your crank on this one, pal. You may build a bullet proof boat (you’ll forgive the skepticism) but your knowledge of this issue is shot full of holes.

Response:

I like Gorilla glue because it doesnot stain the wood. It can be scraped or sanded off and the finish will go on just fine. Garrett-Wade has a PVA glue that I think works as well, it also does not stain. Doesn’t turn your skin black as Gorilla glue does. Supposed to have good gap filling qualities. Just the nonstaining is worth the extra cost to me. The only place I know to get the Garrett Wade glue is to order it from GW. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ive been using elmers forever and thought about trying some gorilla glue. heard that its stainable too. i was wondering what yuz think of this stuff and whether or not its worth the price. ive experimented a little with scrap but was wondering about its workability when used in real applications. any input is greatly appreciated. thanks! Visit my Philadelphia Flyers Fan Page at http://community.webtv.net/FlyerFly/FLYERFLIES

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "brocpuffs" writes: <snip So I keep a can of acetone around to wipe my hands regularly. Acetone will dry your hands, nothing more, unless you smoke on the job! ;- <snip Definitely not true, you need to do a little more research. Acetone components will penetrate the skin, get in the blood stream, and ultimately end up in the liver where they take up residence. You do not want to go there. If you use acetone, at least use protective gloves which can be very inexpensive. Maybe $7-$8/dozen prs.

Acetone is a pure compound, it has no components except itself. Maybe your reference was to a reclaimed solvent? http://usacehr.detrick.army.mil/deptox/chem/acetone.htm Extensive general toxicity testing has revealed the low toxicity profile for acetone. Prolonged inhalation of high concentrations of acetone may cause irritation, inflammation of the upper respiratory tract followed by coughing, headache, drowsiness and incoordination. Experimental studies have revealed a reduced food intake among rats consuming acute quantities of acetone. Chronic health effects associated with exposure to acetone are known at this time. Oral RfD for acetone is estimated to be 1E-1 mg/kg/day (IRIS, 1990; EPA, 1986). In this study albino rats (30/sex/group) were administered acetone by gavage (0 to 2500 mg/kg/day). Body weights, food consumption, clinical chemistry, hematology, and histopathologic parameters, as well as organ weights and organ-to-body weight ratios, were measured and analyzed. No effects were observed at the 100 mg/kg/day dose level throughout the study. RBC parameters were significantly increased in the 2500 mg/kg group at 30 days (males only) and at 90 days in males and females. Statistical analysis of the organ weight and ratio data revealed significantly increased kidney weights for females in 500 and 2500 mg/kg groups and increased organ-to-body weight ratios was increased for kidney, brain, liver in the 2500 mg/kg males and females. James

Response:

I use Gorilla Glue frequently, especially when I need long open time. Yes, it is a bit messy. I use lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol to clean it up. I always use gloves when working with it. I’ve found it to be really strong and well suited for outdoor projects. My favorite use for it is with biscuits.. I put GG into the slots and dip the biscuits in water, wipe them off and clamp it up. If you dampen the face with out the glue with water, the glue will cure quickly. I usually take the clamps off after two hours. Note, you don’t need a lot of water… I just rub a damp paper towel over the joint. That provides plenty of moisture to cure the glue. In addition to the long open time, GG only has to be put on one face of the joint. This is pretty handy. When I first started using GG, I too had lots of problems with foam-out. I discovered that I was putting on WAY too much GG. This stuff only needs to go on thinly… thinner than yellow glue. I do avoid using GC where the foam out would disfigure inside corners. Regards Richard www.io.com/~richardr

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ive been using elmers forever and thought about trying some gorilla glue. heard that its stainable too. i was wondering what yuz think of this stuff and whether or not its worth the price. ive experimented a little with scrap but was wondering about its workability when used in real applications. any input is greatly appreciated. thanks! Visit my Philadelphia Flyers Fan Page at http://community.webtv.net/FlyerFly/FLYERFLIES

Response:

Hi Nate: I started using Gorilla glue about 2-3 years ago when we built some custom street signs for our neighborhood. Each sign is mounted to 3/4" MDO with a custom made PT pine molding around the outside edge. The molding is rabbited to encapsulate the edge of the MDO and glued. A couple of months ago, they started widening the road outside the neighborhood and broke one of our signs. None of the glue joints failed. All of the fractures were in the wood. Further examination showed absolutely no visible signs of glue joint degredation or water penetration. I now use it for all outdoor projects because I have experienced failures with supposedly exterior PVA glues like Elmers and Titebond. It requires no mixing, and as others have indicated has many desirable properties. My only objection is the mess. I recommend using rubber surgeon’s gloves. Regards, John.

Response:

I’ve tried it and feel it lives up to it’s claims, but the short, 2-3 month, shelf life make it way too expensive unless I use most of the bottle for a project. I live in Oregon and it seems there is no way to keep our 80+% humidity out of the bottle once opened. Even if I squeeze out as much air as I can the remaining glue will semi harden and not want to come out of the bottle. If you live in Phoenix or some other dry climate this may not be a problem for you. If they would sell the stuff in different packaging that precludes sucking in any air, i.e. toothpaste tubes or caulking cartridges, I’d use it a lot more. — Art [replace 'nospam' with 'attbi' for email address]

Response:

"brocpuffs" writes:

<snip So I keep a can of acetone around to wipe my hands regularly. Acetone will dry your hands, nothing more, unless you smoke on the job! ;-

<snip Definitely not true, you need to do a little more research. Acetone components will penetrate the skin, get in the blood stream, and ultimately end up in the liver where they take up residence. You do not want to go there. If you use acetone, at least use protective gloves which can be very inexpensive. Maybe $7-$8/dozen prs. — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Response:

Hi All I say yay with reservations. About 1981 years I got a bottle free at a lumber yard in Clarksville TN. I use it to build a dish rack for my sweetie with only a skill saw and a drill you had to plug into the wall. 21 years later it is still in use in our home’s basement kitchen and solid as a rock. My reservation are that it is expensive and seemed to foam up and out the joins alot. Chef PS I have attached pics of the rack and posted them to abpw

Response:

I used it a couple of times. Did a little research. The gap filling isn’t just not strong. It’s totally non-structural, so don’t expect it to fill a loose joint like epoxy. If you do, you’ll probably have enough close contact points to hold, but the joint will be weak and prone to failure. For what it is designed for, it’s a good glue, but I’ll stick with yellow glues for my general work. Cheers, Eric

Response:

<snip PURELY PERSONAL OPINION. I think the stuff is overpriced and under peckered.

I use it and think it’s great stuff for when I have a loose joint or when there is not as much part-to-part contact as I’d like. I glued a piece of metal to the edge of a board once, both 3/4", and it’s heck as heck. It has an almost oily consistency that loves to spread itself all over everything you’re trying to do. So I keep a can of acetone around to wipe my hands regularly. Acetone will dry your hands, nothing more, unless you smoke on the job! ;- It fills joints, and a little too much will bubble out and you have to chisel off the foam later on. It gives me a longer time to clamp stuff together, much longer that TiteBond II e.g. I’m surprised that so many people have shelf life problems. I got a bottle well over a year old and it’s pluggin’ right along. What makes you-all decide its overaged? Thickness? Foamy? I do pour some from the big bottle to a smaller one, and use the smaller bottle while the stock bottle sits tightly closed and squeezed to get out as much air as possible.

Response:

I se it to make all my tools. but in normal use I would stick with it for such things as oily woods and long glue up times and moisture resistance and if you have problems with creep. otherwise yellow glue is fine. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions. To subscribe to my good deals/beta testing/seconds email list send a email to

Response:

ive been using elmers forever and thought about trying some gorilla glue. heard that its stainable too. i was wondering what yuz think of this stuff and whether or not its worth the price. ive experimented a little with scrap but was wondering about its workability when used in real applications. any input is greatly appreciated. thanks! Gorilla is a polyurethane glue that uses moisture to cure. Hence making it ideal for outdoor glue-ups. I have used both gorilla brand and tightbond brand and have noticed no difference other than the tightbond poly is a little bit cheaper at the counter. Another annoyance about tightbond is the container it comes in. It has a triangular shaped bottom that makes it impossible to set down. They do however ship a flat bottomed lid that you can put on every time and take off every time so you can set it down on it’s top. For me it’s a pia. The holding characteristics of the poly glues is extraordinaire. Wet one side of the board and glue the other and just *try* to get them apart! SH Visit my Philadelphia Flyers Fan Page at http://community.webtv.net/FlyerFly/FLYERFLIES

Response:

I’ve purchased 2 bottles (cause I had to throw the first away) which was costly, it’s too messy, you have to wear gloves, it takes forever to dry and it’s not that strong!

Response:

I’ve used it and its great glue. (See "but" below) It expands so you need to be careful how much you use. Also I’ve read that it isn’t strong if you are trying to fill a fairly wide gap. (Need a good fit to start with.) Moisture makes it set/harden. But, after being opened, its shelf life is very short (maybe a couple of months). Once air and humidity get to it… it starts to set up. I quit using it because its very expensive and I’d always throw away about 2/3’s of the bottle. It now comes in smaller bottles, but again if you don’t use it, you loose it. (Where have I heard that before?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ive been using elmers forever and thought about trying some gorilla glue. heard that its stainable too. i was wondering what yuz think of this stuff and whether or not its worth the price. ive experimented a little with scrap but was wondering about its workability when used in real applications. any input is greatly appreciated. thanks! Visit my Philadelphia Flyers Fan Page at http://community.webtv.net/FlyerFly/FLYERFLIES

Response:

I got some after I got my drum sander because Elmers ( aliphatic resin glue ) plugs up the sandpaper. I read that Gorilla glue won’t, it’s true it doesn’t but it has a longer clamp time ( on the order of 4 hours or more, less than an hour with Elmers ) the other thing I don’t like about it is that it expands out of the joint and everywhere it comes out looks like dried expanding foam. However it does scrape off quite easily and like I said it doesn’t plug up the sanding drum’s sandpaper. The long ( I leave things clamped over night with Gorilla Glue ) is inconvenient for me. ~Mike

Response:

clean your hands with acetone. After it cures on your hands it wears off.

Cape Cod Bob would caution me that it also makes a great palm hair remover. Just let dry and peel it off, I bet. I’m going to try coating my knuckles with it. Perhaps then I won’t have those drag scrape scabs that snag my soon-to-be’s panty hose. I ain’t never heard of it, but you know I’m gonna try it!

Response:

I tried gorilla glue. The reason I did was I needed extra time for a complex glue up and a few of my joints were a little on the loose side. It is said that gorilla will fill gaps somewhat. For normal woodworking, however, I don’t see the point of using it. It’s messy. It has a short shelf life. It’s expensive. You need to wet your joints. So my opinion is that gorilla glue is something I let the other guys buy. I use yellow glue or hide glues if I need more time. sk

Response:

"Robert Galloway" writes: Exposing your hands to acetone may not be the greatest idea but it is the stuff of finger nail polish remover. Must no be too terrible.

If you check a current production nail polish remover bottle, think you will find it is acetone free, at least the few I have seen are. HTH — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Response:

Exposing your hands to acetone may not be the greatest idea but it is the stuff of finger nail polish remover. Must no be too terrible. rhg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Leon" writes: Its great for out door applications. A mess to work with, before it cures clean your hands with acetone. Exposing your skin to acetone is definitely not a swift idea. If you are going to use this stuff, use protective clothing, same as epoxy. HTH — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Response:

"Nate H." writes: ive been using elmers forever and thought about trying some gorilla glue. heard that its stainable too. i was wondering what yuz think of this stuff and whether or not its worth the price.

PURELY PERSONAL OPINION. I think the stuff is overpriced and under peckered. I buy epoxy for about 2/3 the price of Gorilla glue if I truly need a superior glue joint. If TiteBond II isn’t good enough for the job, but I don’t want to use epoxy, then Aerolite 306 comes into play. Gap filling, invisible glue line, essentially unlimited open clamp time, still less expensive than Gorilla glue. Been around for over 60 years. Used by the Brits to glue airplanes together in WWII. As I said, PURELY PERSONAL OPINION. — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Response:

"Leon" writes: Its great for out door applications. A mess to work with, before it cures clean your hands with acetone.

Exposing your skin to acetone is definitely not a swift idea. If you are going to use this stuff, use protective clothing, same as epoxy. HTH — Lew S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland) Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Response:

In it’s element it is great. But overkill for most interior woodworking. Its great for out door applications. A mess to work with, before it cures clean your hands with acetone. After it cures on your hands it wears off.

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