Talk Cancer

Question:

As far as cultural poisoning I think we should all just ignore the differences the world wasn’t so bent on watching what we say and segregating ourselves from other people by race , ethnicity , or beliefs . . . I think we’d have a better world and you’d find that many of the things that we blame God for would be considerably less if not God willing . . . . destroyed . As far as Jesus not being "white" . . .  He was a Jewish man and 100% God . . . . .  Beyond that anything else people would like to fight about is just deepening the cracks between our brothers and sisters . Why don’t we learn to laugh at ourselves and take a look from within for a change instead of from what is going on outside . I have an African American woman who used to make jokes that many people might find offensive . .  . .I joked back and we both laughed at the words and the stereotypes and shook our heads . She is a dear friend of mine and always will be . . . . Not the skin or appearance of her but the being that IS her on the inside that will live forever . Please learn to laugh at the world and not ready to fight against it . " Sticks and stones . . . . " Maybe they don’t teach that anymore I guess . . . . Jesus the man who is God bless you all and I hope we all learn to ignore the differences and embrace the people behind them . . . . .

Response:

JESUS WAS NOT A WHITE MAN by Happy Otter I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me.

You really need to get a life.  Jesus was not white? Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.He was Jewish.  He was painted as a white guy by all those Europeans in the Middle Ages because most of them had probably never seen a real Jew.  The tradition of still drawing Him as a white guy is continued by fundamentalist Protestant Christians because they’re all a bunch of racists.

Response:

JESUS WAS NOT A WHITE MAN by Happy Otter I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me. You really need to get a life.  Jesus was not white? Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.He was Jewish.  He was painted as a white guy by all those Europeans in the Middle Ages because most of them had probably never seen a real Jew.  The tradition of still drawing Him as a white guy is continued by fundamentalist Protestant Christians because they’re all a bunch of racists.

For goodness sake the man died 2000 years ago!! who cares what shade of brown he was..surely any image depicted of a dead man which is worshipped, including that miserable figure lamenting and bleeding on the cross, must be seen as effigy worshipping….What are we a bunch of On the other hand the spirit of Christ knows no color, nationality or creed!!!!! PeterT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

On the other hand the spirit of Christ knows no color, nationality or creed!!!!! PeterT

Amen!Would it make a difference if He was green? — "But grandfather, are the gods not just?" "Oh no, child. What would become of us if they were?" Till We Have Faces_ by C.S. Lewis

Response:

On the other hand the spirit of Christ knows no color, nationality or creed!!!!! PeterT Amen!Would it make a difference if He was green?

Well, we’d have a hard time convincing ourselves that we were made in His image and likeness.  Other than that, none. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "But grandfather, are the gods not just?" "Oh no, child. What would become of us if they were?" Till We Have Faces_ by C.S. Lewis

Response:

{{Lots of snipping done}} For Catholics anyway – if you travel around the world you can see pictures or statues of Jesus and/or Mary with the features of whatever race is in that Geographical area. In Japan you can find Him/her with Asian features… in Mexico the miraculous picture of Mary, scientifically proven not to be created by any technology of man (so therefore not done by human hands), depicts her in Mexican Indian features. Of course these pictures are representation and not the real thing. They are like pictures of your kids in your wallet that you take out to remind you of them.. the picture in your wallet is not the same thing as your kids! nor do you talk to your wallet pictures and expect them to talk back. {More cutting}

This reminds me of a beautiful statue of Mary that I saw outside a church on the greater New Orleans area.  The community in this church parish was mainly Vietnamese, and a parishioner carved the statue.  When looking at it, from any angle, one cannot truly identify an ethnic group.  If you think it is Asian, you see it as Asian.  If you think about Africa, you see it as African. European, native American, it does not matter.  The carver must have been gifted and inspired, because he really blended all ethnic backgrounds to come up with a statue that shows that the people of the bible mean a lot to all peoples of the earth. BTW, I was fortunate enough to visit a Jewish "Sunday school"(I cannot remember the correct term, but it was religious education by volunteers, much like our own CCD). I was in high school, and the teacher was one of my older friends. She asked me to explain what Catholics do during Holy Week, and her middle school age students would explain to me about Pesach(sp?) as a kind of oral test.  Her only request?:  Since the Jewish community is a waiting people, that I do not call Jesus "Christ"  I could respect that.  Anyhow, I found out how much we have in common……But I started my presentation with the statement, "Jesus was a Jew"  Boy, I got their attention with that. Happy Holidays to all! Buny

Response:

On the other hand the spirit of Christ knows no color, nationality or creed!!!!! PeterT Amen!Would it make a difference if He was green? Well, we’d have a hard time convincing ourselves that we were made in His image and likeness.  Other than that, none.

I’m sure that Genesis 1:26 doesn’t mean we look like God. — "But grandfather, are the gods not just?" "Oh no, child. What would become of us if they were?" Till We Have Faces_ by C.S. Lewis

Response:

You people are right on the money! The reason most people don’t know Jesus’s ethnicity is because of something I call CULTURAL POISONING. I have created a test for it. their is at least one question on this test that you folks will ger correct. " does the picture of Jesus we see in most bibles agree with what is written in the bible?. stop by my site and tell me what you think. About the Cultural Poisoning test. you might have spiritual friends that you may judge could benifit from such a self test. Also see other interactive on-line tests for racism, sexism and the history of world religion and philosophy on one page (including start dates and names of ontology systems) http://racetest.findhere.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I think most in our time reconize that Jesus was in fact not white.  But of very dark skin.   I have used this fact on many of the ‘chistian’ racists I have encountered.  As well as the fact that every bible book written was by someone of dark skin, oriential is the ‘official’ class I do believe.     I think the sadness is not on christians not being able to accept a non white, but rather in the lack of education that persisted umong ‘christian’ people for so many hundreds of years.  It reminds me of a story.  I don’t know for a fact it’s true, but I’ll relate it still.  A man was talking to some irish catholics about Jesus, christianty and the proper view of Jews. (If I remeber correctly this was supposed to be around WWII).  He stated that Jesus was a Jew by birth.  This enranged the people he was talking to who proceded to beat on him for defaming their Lord Jesus.  After they were done they told him quite firmly that Jesus was born both an irish man and a good Catholic."     Education of what the bible truely says is what is lacking, and what lead to the depictions of Jesus as white in our time.  At least that’s my take on it. JESUS WAS NOT A WHITE MAN by Happy Otter I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me. Did you ever notice that all of the pictures that christians have of Jesus depict him as a white man? Why is this? Was Jesus or was he not born in the middle of the desert? What color are the indigenous residents of that area? I think that any reasonable person would agree that the residents of that area are not white and are more of a brown color. Let’s explore this, shall we? The ancient philosopher Hesiod said, "Mortals deem that gods are begotten as they are, and have clothes like theirs, and voice and form…yes, and if oxen and horses or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and produce works of art as men do, horses would paint the forms of gods like horses, and oxen like oxen, and make their bodies in the image of their several kinds." This is quite true in most cases. Is it that the white people accepted christianity but could not accept the idea of worshipping someone who was not white? I see the conversion of Jesus to a white man as a very repulsive comment on christianity. This alteration of the historical figure of Jesus is a conscious devaluation of people who are not white. It is saying that God must be white because it is inconceivable for him to be anything other than white, as anyone of a color other than white is not equal to the white race. It is saying that the white race is superior to all other races and that, in order to be perfect or even worth considering, God must be white, as a god who is not white could not be perfect. I believe that the bible said that Jesus was a man with skin of bronze and hair like lambs wool. This does not seem to describe a white man. In fact, how many blonde haired, blue eyed white people do you think that you would have found in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago? I don’t think that you would have found any white people at all, but the false and misleading images portrayed by the church perpetuate a racist lie. Why is it that movies always portray Jesus, Moses, Noah or any other biblical character as a white man? It is a perpetuation of a lie and it should end! These historical characters could not have been white, yet they are continually portrayed as such. It takes an enormous amount of insecurity to believe that someone must be of the same race as yourself in order to be worthy of praise. If you look at the dictionary definition of BLACK and WHITE, you will find some interesting information. The definition of BLACK: black Black, a. [OE. blak, AS. bl[ae]c; akin to Icel. blakkr dark, swarthy, Sw. bl["a]ck ink, Dan. bl[ae]k, OHG. blach, LG. & D. blaken to burn with a black smoke. Not akin to AS. bl[=a]c, E. bleak pallid. ?98.] 1. Destitute of light, or incapable of reflecting it; of the color of soot or coal; of the darkest or a very dark color, the opposite of white; characterized by such a color; as, black cloth; black hair or eyes. O night, with hue so black! –Shak. 2. In a less literal sense: Enveloped or shrouded in darkness; very dark or gloomy; as, a black night; the heavens black with clouds. I spy a black, suspicious, threatening cloud. –Shak. 3. Fig.: Dismal, gloomy, or forbidding, like darkness; destitute of moral light or goodness; atrociously wicked; cruel; mournful; calamitous; horrible. “This day’s black fate.” “Black villainy.” “Arise, black vengeance.” “Black day.” “Black despair.” –Shak. 4. Expressing menace, or discontent; threatening; sullen; foreboding; as, to regard one with black looks. The definition of WHITE: white White, a. [Compar. Whiter; superl. Whitest.] [OE. whit, AS. hw?t; akin to OFries. and OS. hw[=i]t, D. wit, G. weiss, OHG. w[=i]z, hw[=i]z, Icel. hv[=i]tr, Sw. hvit, Dan. hvid, Goth. hweits, Lith. szveisti, to make bright, Russ. sviet’ light, Skr. ?v?ta white, ?vit to be bright. ???. Cf. Wheat, Whitsunday.] 1. Reflecting to the eye all the rays of the spectrum combined; not tinted with any of the proper colors or their mixtures; having the color of pure snow; snowy; — the opposite of black or dark; as, white paper; a white skin. “Pearls white.” –Chaucer. White as the whitest lily on a stream. –Longfellow. 2. Destitute of color, as in the cheeks, or of the tinge of blood color; pale; pallid; as, white with fear. Or whispering with white lips, “The foe! They come! they come!” –Byron. 3. Having the color of purity; free from spot or blemish, or from guilt or pollution; innocent; pure. White as thy fame, and as thy honor clear. –Dryden. No whiter page than Addison’s remains. –Pope. 4. Gray, as from age; having silvery hair; hoary. Your high engendered battles ‘gainst a head So old and white as this. –Shak. 5. Characterized by freedom from that which disturbs, and the like; fortunate; happy; favorable. On the whole, however, the dominie reckoned this as one of the white days of his life. –Sir W. Scott. 6. Regarded with especial favor; favorite; darling. Come forth, my white spouse. –Chaucer. These are the words used to describe black and white. How could God be black according to these definitions? God must be white! Who wrote the definitions of these words? Whose words are these? It is with these words that people are valued or devalued and it is with these words that judgements are made. It is with these words that prejudices are formed and lies are perpetuated. I have long been annoyed that white christians have posed as missionaries and have perpetuated this lie, convincing people to worship a white God while devaluing the gods of the people that they strive to convert. Egotism! A reader sent this quote to me and I found it to be quite powerful. The quote is as follows: "When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed, when we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible." – Jomo Kenyatta. This has long been the tradition of the christian pirate! It has gone on so long that there are now millions of christian pirates, a great number of whom are not white at all. Brainwashing? Deceit? Misrepresentation? – PERPETUATION! Happy Otter visit my super fly site at http://members.home.com/happyotter

Response:

"Oriental" is being used here in the older sense, where the demarkation between "Orient" and "Occident"  is Greece and Turkey. By that definition, Israel is in the Orient.  It isn’t being used here as a synonym for "Mongolian." Frankly, I have a bit of a problem with "Asian."  Asia is an awfully big place, and parts of it contain some of the whitest folks in the world. The Caucasus is in Asia, and that’s where "Caucasian" *comes* from.  Can you not call a Russian "Asian" even though he lives in Asia, just because he’s white?

Good post that, but feels like it doesn’t quite get through… Oh yeah, here’s a choice one I just gotta get into, being as pedantic on issue such as this: Oriental (Oriens): used by the Romans to describe the Levantine region formerly contested between the Ptolomaics and the Selueucids. At the least it included the Iudean/ Palestinian tetrarchies and southern third of Syria. Indication is that it was the easternmost province.  To be re-oriented is to face the dawn. Curiously, at least in latin times, when one was Oriented your Sinister (left, weakness) was toward the Germanic tribes and your Dexter (right, strength) was toward Egypt… which makes a curious socio-theology statement for their times, hmm? "Jesus" was likely not even a Jew, probably more likely an Egyptian… his pedigree as given in the NT is faulty and unverifiable. His variances with the mainstream theology of his time indicate possible Khemetic (egyptian) affinities. The only thing we can state for certain (with independent sources) is that John the Baptist lived and died in that time frame and that his adherents were more numerous and zealous than any documentable "Christian" community before the journeys of Paul. Asia: was the eastern half of modern-day Turkey,at the end of the Augustinian Emperium,… Asians of that time were a Hellenic mixture of the various ethnos which migrated or were relocated through centuries of trade and war in the Eastern Med. Caucasians and Mongols were originally steppe people, mostly Altaic herdmen. Please don’t refer to either of them as "white" because the indication of "white" is that they are Europeans, and neither group would appreciate the association with Europeans like the Balto-Slavs, the Celti-Germanic, or Italo-Illyrians. Also, per your example: most of the "russians" in the Siberian and Yakut regions were expatriated Ukraines and Cossaks. Ukraines may be Slavic, but they would prefer avoiding direct cultural association (though apparently not political) with their Rus or Belorus neighbors. The Cossaks actually seem to want to be associated with the Altaic steppe warriors, as even now, they are trying to resurrect their horse-mounted mercenary traditions.

Response:

You are very right… that is a believable story as well.  I can definately see that happening. Happy Otter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I think most in our time reconize that Jesus was in fact not white.  But of very dark skin.   I have used this fact on many of the ‘chistian’ racists I have encountered.  As well as the fact that every bible book written was by someone of dark skin, oriential is the ‘official’ class I do believe.     I think the sadness is not on christians not being able to accept a non white, but rather in the lack of education that persisted umong ‘christian’ people for so many hundreds of years.  It reminds me of a story.  I don’t know for a fact it’s true, but I’ll relate it still.  A man was talking to some irish catholics about Jesus, christianty and the proper view of Jews. (If I remeber correctly this was supposed to be around WWII).  He stated that Jesus was a Jew by birth.  This enranged the people he was talking to who proceded to beat on him for defaming their Lord Jesus.  After they were done they told him quite firmly that Jesus was born both an irish man and a good Catholic."     Education of what the bible truely says is what is lacking, and what lead to the depictions of Jesus as white in our time.  At least that’s my take on it. JESUS WAS NOT A WHITE MAN by Happy Otter I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me. Did you ever notice that all of the pictures that christians have of Jesus depict him as a white man? Why is this? Was Jesus or was he not born in the middle of the desert? What color are the indigenous residents of that area? I think that any reasonable person would agree that the residents of that area are not white and are more of a brown color. Let’s explore this, shall we? The ancient philosopher Hesiod said, "Mortals deem that gods are begotten as they are, and have clothes like theirs, and voice and form…yes, and if oxen and horses or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and produce works of art as men do, horses would paint the forms of gods like horses, and oxen like oxen, and make their bodies in the image of their several kinds." This is quite true in most cases. Is it that the white people accepted christianity but could not accept the idea of worshipping someone who was not white? I see the conversion of Jesus to a white man as a very repulsive comment on christianity. This alteration of the historical figure of Jesus is a conscious devaluation of people who are not white. It is saying that God must be white because it is inconceivable for him to be anything other than white, as anyone of a color other than white is not equal to the white race. It is saying that the white race is superior to all other races and that, in order to be perfect or even worth considering, God must be white, as a god who is not white could not be perfect. I believe that the bible said that Jesus was a man with skin of bronze and hair like lambs wool. This does not seem to describe a white man. In fact, how many blonde haired, blue eyed white people do you think that you would have found in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago? I don’t think that you would have found any white people at all, but the false and misleading images portrayed by the church perpetuate a racist lie. Why is it that movies always portray Jesus, Moses, Noah or any other biblical character as a white man? It is a perpetuation of a lie and it should end! These historical characters could not have been white, yet they are continually portrayed as such. It takes an enormous amount of insecurity to believe that someone must be of the same race as yourself in order to be worthy of praise. If you look at the dictionary definition of BLACK and WHITE, you will find some interesting information. The definition of BLACK: black Black, a. [OE. blak, AS. bl[ae]c; akin to Icel. blakkr dark, swarthy, Sw. bl["a]ck ink, Dan. bl[ae]k, OHG. blach, LG. & D. blaken to burn with a black smoke. Not akin to AS. bl[=a]c, E. bleak pallid. ?98.] 1. Destitute of light, or incapable of reflecting it; of the color of soot or coal; of the darkest or a very dark color, the opposite of white; characterized by such a color; as, black cloth; black hair or eyes. O night, with hue so black! –Shak. 2. In a less literal sense: Enveloped or shrouded in darkness; very dark or gloomy; as, a black night; the heavens black with clouds. I spy a black, suspicious, threatening cloud. –Shak. 3. Fig.: Dismal, gloomy, or forbidding, like darkness; destitute of moral light or goodness; atrociously wicked; cruel; mournful; calamitous; horrible. “This day’s black fate.” “Black villainy.” “Arise, black vengeance.” “Black day.” “Black despair.” –Shak. 4. Expressing menace, or discontent; threatening; sullen; foreboding; as, to regard one with black looks. The definition of WHITE: white White, a. [Compar. Whiter; superl. Whitest.] [OE. whit, AS. hw?t; akin to OFries. and OS. hw[=i]t, D. wit, G. weiss, OHG. w[=i]z, hw[=i]z, Icel. hv[=i]tr, Sw. hvit, Dan. hvid, Goth. hweits, Lith. szveisti, to make bright, Russ. sviet’ light, Skr. ?v?ta white, ?vit to be bright. ???. Cf. Wheat, Whitsunday.] 1. Reflecting to the eye all the rays of the spectrum combined; not tinted with any of the proper colors or their mixtures; having the color of pure snow; snowy; — the opposite of black or dark; as, white paper; a white skin. “Pearls white.” –Chaucer. White as the whitest lily on a stream. –Longfellow. 2. Destitute of color, as in the cheeks, or of the tinge of blood color; pale; pallid; as, white with fear. Or whispering with white lips, “The foe! They come! they come!” –Byron. 3. Having the color of purity; free from spot or blemish, or from guilt or pollution; innocent; pure. White as thy fame, and as thy honor clear. –Dryden. No whiter page than Addison’s remains. –Pope. 4. Gray, as from age; having silvery hair; hoary. Your high engendered battles ‘gainst a head So old and white as this. –Shak. 5. Characterized by freedom from that which disturbs, and the like; fortunate; happy; favorable. On the whole, however, the dominie reckoned this as one of the white days of his life. –Sir W. Scott. 6. Regarded with especial favor; favorite; darling. Come forth, my white spouse. –Chaucer. These are the words used to describe black and white. How could God be black according to these definitions? God must be white! Who wrote the definitions of these words? Whose words are these? It is with these words that people are valued or devalued and it is with these words that judgements are made. It is with these words that prejudices are formed and lies are perpetuated. I have long been annoyed that white christians have posed as missionaries and have perpetuated this lie, convincing people to worship a white God while devaluing the gods of the people that they strive to convert. Egotism! A reader sent this quote to me and I found it to be quite powerful. The quote is as follows: "When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed, when we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible." – Jomo Kenyatta. This has long been the tradition of the christian pirate! It has gone on so long that there are now millions of christian pirates, a great number of whom are not white at all. Brainwashing? Deceit? Misrepresentation? – PERPETUATION! Happy Otter visit my super fly site at http://members.home.com/happyotter

Response:

What does white mean anyway?  He was a Jew.  I assume he had a tan too from being out in the sun and all.  But what does this have to do with anything? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmm.  You gave me something to think about.  I believe you are right.  This is probably why God told us not to make any images of him in ANY form.  Be it stone, gold, wood, Pictures/paintings.  Because in doing this we are doing a great disservice to him.  He is so Glorious & Wonderful & Heavenly that we humans cannot even begin to comprehend or understand what he looks like to the human eye & mind.  Jesus is afterall, our Lord God. I can’t answer for others as to why he is white.  But I hope you can get past the simple pictures of it. ……And think of the Glory of Him instead. Matthew 5:8  :) -Sylvia

Response:

I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me. Did you ever notice that all of the pictures that Christians have of Jesus depict him as a white man? Why is this? Was Jesus or was he not born

in the middle of the desert? What color are the indigenous residents of that area? I think that any reasonable person would agree that the residents of that area are not white and are more of a brown color. Let’s explore this, shall we?

I stopped reading your post at this mistake. For Catholics anyway – if you travel around the world you can see pictures or statues of Jesus and/or Mary with the features of whatever race is in that Geographical area. In Japan you can find Him/her with Asian features… in Mexico the miraculous picture of Mary, scientifically proven not to be created by any technology of man (so therefore not done by human hands), depicts her in Mexican Indian features. Of course these pictures are representation and not the real thing. They are like pictures of your kids in your wallet that you take out to remind you of them.. the picture in your wallet is not the same thing as your kids! nor do you talk to your wallet pictures and expect them to talk back. Christ identifies with all peoples… perhaps that is why He inspires artists to depict Him with the features of His people. As to what Jesus (Yeshu or other Hebraic spelling) really looked like, the closest approximation is the Shroud of Turin, where we can see a negative image of what was probably the face of the suffering Christ. The closest image of Mary is probably the painting done by Saint Luke – which may have darkened over the centuries but plainly shows her as a dark skinned Semetic. In the painting her skin tone is almost ebony but was almost surely a brown when fresh. But we have no sure way of knowing what Christ looked like except he looked ordinary and was not comely. If Jesus had thought it important enough, He would sure have left us a detailed description, or painting or drawing.. something. Of course, the description above is something of Jesus before the resurrection. Since Jesus is alive, what does He look like now? In Revelations He is described as pure white hair with eyes like fire… yet, when those who walked with Him while on this earth, and listened to Him daily, and -surely- knew what He looked like saw Him after the Resurrection – a curious thing takes place.. when Magdalene goes to the tomb, she sees Him but thinks he is the gardener! Obviously she didn’t see pure white hair and flameing fire for eyes… she saw what looked like an ordinary man. Until when? Until Christ reveals Himself. On the road to Emus(sp)… two disciples are walking and He begins to walk with them… so close as to touch.. so long as to carry on a conversation for hours.. so close as to point to lines in scriptures and explain them… yet they do not recognize Him.. he looks like a ordinary stranger.. any man. Until when, until at the breaking of bread, like he broke for the five thousand, like He broke at the last supper saying "This is my body." .. He reveals Himself. From this we can see it is not all that important how Christ physically looked or looks like now… for He is truly present in each member of His mystical Body. Remember Saul/Paul had been persecuting members of the Church and never meet Jesus himself.. yet on the road to Damascus Christ says "Saul.. why do you persecute ME?" What does Christ look like? Well, he must look like the poor, the widow, the ignored and the forgotten because it says "Lord.. when did I see you and help you??" … "If you give anyone of them so much as a cup of water – you gave it to ME". So Happy Otter… Jesus asks you too "Why do you persecute me?" are you a Scientologist? OT ? perhaps? Are you an ex-Chatholic? You are a man who has some trauma centering on Christianity…. some pain that keeps you attached to it. Some pain that keeps you coming back to pull the wings off flies in an attempt to force the secret of that which is void in your life. You are attached and obsessed with attacking Christianity – you can not let go of that and be free to pursue happy things and a cheerful life. This is you… "If there is a God, he is a worthless piece of sh*t and gets a subtle satisfaction out of watching the objects of his creation suffer in horrible ways. Where is the divinity in watching millions of children starve and die in agony? Why does disease exist? Why do just as many Christians die of natural and un-natural causes as atheists and Satanists? Wouldn’t it make sense for a God who is so ready to punish those who disagree with him to take care of those people who walk around with blinders on and praise his glory? Since this is a simple stream-of-consciousness type of thing, why is it not against the law for these idiot Christians who believe in prayer and faith healing their disease to let their children, spouses, friends and neighbors die horrible, painful deaths while waiting for a non-existent God to annul the laws of nature and cure them with some sort of miracle? I think that all of these people should be tried for murder. If my son was suffering from cancer or some other disease and I could take him to a hospital and have him cured or at least remove his pain and I did nothing, I would hope that someone would have the goddamned common decency to put a facing bullet through my meager brain! How do you worship a God who willingly watches you suffer and does nothing to help you? Can God end suffering and if he can, why doesn’t he? F*ck God!" This is you – suffering. That is plain and clear. Why? Why? One reason is because you hold onto a view of God that is from the media and movies. It is -that- view which obviously causes you the greatest pain because it is that view which you spend energy on to destroy. You remind me of the Greek myth of Prometheus? Do you know it? Tell me.. now.. what is that personal pain deep in you? Be brave and say it here. Share it.. maybe we will agree with you because we too do not believe in the ‘God’ you describe.

Response:

Hmmm.  You gave me something to think about.  I believe you are right.  This is probably why God told us not to make any images of him in ANY form.  Be it stone, gold, wood, Pictures/paintings.  Because in doing this we are doing a great disservice to him.  He is so Glorious & Wonderful & Heavenly that we humans cannot even begin to comprehend or understand what he looks like to the human eye & mind.  Jesus is afterall, our Lord God. I can’t answer for others as to why he is white.  But I hope you can get past the simple pictures of it. ……And think of the Glory of Him instead. Matthew 5:8  :) -Sylvia

Response:

   I think most in our time reconize that Jesus was in fact not white. But of very dark skin.   I have used this fact on many of the ‘chistian’ racists I have encountered.  As well as the fact that every bible book written was by someone of dark skin, oriential is the ‘official’ class I do believe.

Don’t call them ‘Oriental’ that is like calling a black man a ‘Negro"…its Asian

Response:

   I think most in our time reconize that Jesus was in fact not white. But of very dark skin.   I have used this fact on many of the ‘chistian’ racists I have encountered.  As well as the fact that every bible book written was by someone of dark skin, oriential is the ‘official’ class I do believe. Don’t call them ‘Oriental’ that is like calling a black man a ‘Negro"…its Asian

"Oriental" is being used here in the older sense, where the demarkation between "Orient" and "Occident"  is Greece and Turkey.      By that definition, Israel is in the Orient.  It isn’t being used here as a synonym for "Mongolian." Frankly, I have a bit of a problem with "Asian."  Asia is an awfully big place, and parts of it contain some of the whitest folks in the world.  The Caucasus is in Asia, and that’s where "Caucasian" *comes* from.  Can you not call a Russian "Asian" even though he lives in Asia, just because he’s white?

Response:

JESUS WAS NOT A WHITE MAN by Happy Otter I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me. Did you ever notice that all of the pictures that christians have of Jesus depict him as a white man? Why is this? Was Jesus or was he not born in the middle of the desert? What color are the indigenous residents of that area? I think that any reasonable person would agree that the residents of that area are not white and are more of a brown color. Let’s explore this, shall we? The ancient philosopher Hesiod said, "Mortals deem that gods are begotten as they are, and have clothes like theirs, and voice and form…yes, and if oxen and horses or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and produce works of art as men do, horses would paint the forms of gods like horses, and oxen like oxen, and make their bodies in the image of their several kinds." This is quite true in most cases. Is it that the white people accepted christianity but could not accept the idea of worshipping someone who was not white? I see the conversion of Jesus to a white man as a very repulsive comment on christianity. This alteration of the historical figure of Jesus is a conscious devaluation of people who are not white. It is saying that God must be white because it is inconceivable for him to be anything other than white, as anyone of a color other than white is not equal to the white race. It is saying that the white race is superior to all other races and that, in order to be perfect or even worth considering, God must be white, as a god who is not white could not be perfect. I believe that the bible said that Jesus was a man with skin of bronze and hair like lambs wool. This does not seem to describe a white man. In fact, how many blonde haired, blue eyed white people do you think that you would have found in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago? I don’t think that you would have found any white people at all, but the false and misleading images portrayed by the church perpetuate a racist lie. Why is it that movies always portray Jesus, Moses, Noah or any other biblical character as a white man? It is a perpetuation of a lie and it should end! These historical characters could not have been white, yet they are continually portrayed as such. It takes an enormous amount of insecurity to believe that someone must be of the same race as yourself in order to be worthy of praise. If you look at the dictionary definition of BLACK and WHITE, you will find some interesting information. The definition of BLACK: black Black, a. [OE. blak, AS. bl[ae]c; akin to Icel. blakkr dark, swarthy, Sw. bl["a]ck ink, Dan. bl[ae]k, OHG. blach, LG. & D. blaken to burn with a black smoke. Not akin to AS. bl[=a]c, E. bleak pallid. ?98.] 1. Destitute of light, or incapable of reflecting it; of the color of soot or coal; of the darkest or a very dark color, the opposite of white; characterized by such a color; as, black cloth; black hair or eyes. O night, with hue so black! –Shak. 2. In a less literal sense: Enveloped or shrouded in darkness; very dark or gloomy; as, a black night; the heavens black with clouds. I spy a black, suspicious, threatening cloud. –Shak. 3. Fig.: Dismal, gloomy, or forbidding, like darkness; destitute of moral light or goodness; atrociously wicked; cruel; mournful; calamitous; horrible. “This day’s black fate.” “Black villainy.” “Arise, black vengeance.” “Black day.” “Black despair.” –Shak. 4. Expressing menace, or discontent; threatening; sullen; foreboding; as, to regard one with black looks. The definition of WHITE: white White, a. [Compar. Whiter; superl. Whitest.] [OE. whit, AS. hw?t; akin to OFries. and OS. hw[=i]t, D. wit, G. weiss, OHG. w[=i]z, hw[=i]z, Icel. hv[=i]tr, Sw. hvit, Dan. hvid, Goth. hweits, Lith. szveisti, to make bright, Russ. sviet’ light, Skr. ?v?ta white, ?vit to be bright. ???. Cf. Wheat, Whitsunday.] 1. Reflecting to the eye all the rays of the spectrum combined; not tinted with any of the proper colors or their mixtures; having the color of pure snow; snowy; — the opposite of black or dark; as, white paper; a white skin. “Pearls white.” –Chaucer. White as the whitest lily on a stream. –Longfellow. 2. Destitute of color, as in the cheeks, or of the tinge of blood color; pale; pallid; as, white with fear. Or whispering with white lips, “The foe! They come! they come!” –Byron. 3. Having the color of purity; free from spot or blemish, or from guilt or pollution; innocent; pure. White as thy fame, and as thy honor clear. –Dryden. No whiter page than Addison’s remains. –Pope. 4. Gray, as from age; having silvery hair; hoary. Your high engendered battles ‘gainst a head So old and white as this. –Shak. 5. Characterized by freedom from that which disturbs, and the like; fortunate; happy; favorable. On the whole, however, the dominie reckoned this as one of the white days of his life. –Sir W. Scott. 6. Regarded with especial favor; favorite; darling. Come forth, my white spouse. –Chaucer. These are the words used to describe black and white. How could God be black according to these definitions? God must be white! Who wrote the definitions of these words? Whose words are these? It is with these words that people are valued or devalued and it is with these words that judgements are made. It is with these words that prejudices are formed and lies are perpetuated. I have long been annoyed that white christians have posed as missionaries and have perpetuated this lie, convincing people to worship a white God while devaluing the gods of the people that they strive to convert. Egotism! A reader sent this quote to me and I found it to be quite powerful. The quote is as follows: "When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed, when we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible." – Jomo Kenyatta. This has long been the tradition of the christian pirate! It has gone on so long that there are now millions of christian pirates, a great number of whom are not white at all. Brainwashing? Deceit? Misrepresentation? – PERPETUATION! Happy Otter visit my super fly site at http://members.home.com/happyotter

Response:

    I think most in our time reconize that Jesus was in fact not white.  But of very dark skin.   I have used this fact on many of the ‘chistian’ racists I have encountered.  As well as the fact that every bible book written was by someone of dark skin, oriential is the ‘official’ class I do believe.     I think the sadness is not on christians not being able to accept a non white, but rather in the lack of education that persisted umong ‘christian’ people for so many hundreds of years.  It reminds me of a story.  I don’t know for a fact it’s true, but I’ll relate it still.  A man was talking to some irish catholics about Jesus, christianty and the proper view of Jews. (If I remeber correctly this was supposed to be around WWII).  He stated that Jesus was a Jew by birth.  This enranged the people he was talking to who proceded to beat on him for defaming their Lord Jesus.  After they were done they told him quite firmly that Jesus was born both an irish man and a good Catholic."     Education of what the bible truely says is what is lacking, and what lead to the depictions of Jesus as white in our time.  At least that’s my take on it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JESUS WAS NOT A WHITE MAN by Happy Otter I was just sitting here thinking about something that is quite annoying to me. Did you ever notice that all of the pictures that christians have of Jesus depict him as a white man? Why is this? Was Jesus or was he not born in the middle of the desert? What color are the indigenous residents of that area? I think that any reasonable person would agree that the residents of that area are not white and are more of a brown color. Let’s explore this, shall we? The ancient philosopher Hesiod said, "Mortals deem that gods are begotten as they are, and have clothes like theirs, and voice and form…yes, and if oxen and horses or lions had hands, and could paint with their hands, and produce works of art as men do, horses would paint the forms of gods like horses, and oxen like oxen, and make their bodies in the image of their several kinds." This is quite true in most cases. Is it that the white people accepted christianity but could not accept the idea of worshipping someone who was not white? I see the conversion of Jesus to a white man as a very repulsive comment on christianity. This alteration of the historical figure of Jesus is a conscious devaluation of people who are not white. It is saying that God must be white because it is inconceivable for him to be anything other than white, as anyone of a color other than white is not equal to the white race. It is saying that the white race is superior to all other races and that, in order to be perfect or even worth considering, God must be white, as a god who is not white could not be perfect. I believe that the bible said that Jesus was a man with skin of bronze and hair like lambs wool. This does not seem to describe a white man. In fact, how many blonde haired, blue eyed white people do you think that you would have found in the middle east a couple of thousand years ago? I don’t think that you would have found any white people at all, but the false and misleading images portrayed by the church perpetuate a racist lie. Why is it that movies always portray Jesus, Moses, Noah or any other biblical character as a white man? It is a perpetuation of a lie and it should end! These historical characters could not have been white, yet they are continually portrayed as such. It takes an enormous amount of insecurity to believe that someone must be of the same race as yourself in order to be worthy of praise. If you look at the dictionary definition of BLACK and WHITE, you will find some interesting information. The definition of BLACK: black Black, a. [OE. blak, AS. bl[ae]c; akin to Icel. blakkr dark, swarthy, Sw. bl["a]ck ink, Dan. bl[ae]k, OHG. blach, LG. & D. blaken to burn with a black smoke. Not akin to AS. bl[=a]c, E. bleak pallid. ?98.] 1. Destitute of light, or incapable of reflecting it; of the color of soot or coal; of the darkest or a very dark color, the opposite of white; characterized by such a color; as, black cloth; black hair or eyes. O night, with hue so black! –Shak. 2. In a less literal sense: Enveloped or shrouded in darkness; very dark or gloomy; as, a black night; the heavens black with clouds. I spy a black, suspicious, threatening cloud. –Shak. 3. Fig.: Dismal, gloomy, or forbidding, like darkness; destitute of moral light or goodness; atrociously wicked; cruel; mournful; calamitous; horrible. “This day’s black fate.” “Black villainy.” “Arise, black vengeance.” “Black day.” “Black despair.” –Shak. 4. Expressing menace, or discontent; threatening; sullen; foreboding; as, to regard one with black looks. The definition of WHITE: white White, a. [Compar. Whiter; superl. Whitest.] [OE. whit, AS. hw?t; akin to OFries. and OS. hw[=i]t, D. wit, G. weiss, OHG. w[=i]z, hw[=i]z, Icel. hv[=i]tr, Sw. hvit, Dan. hvid, Goth. hweits, Lith. szveisti, to make bright, Russ. sviet’ light, Skr. ?v?ta white, ?vit to be bright. ???. Cf. Wheat, Whitsunday.] 1. Reflecting to the eye all the rays of the spectrum combined; not tinted with any of the proper colors or their mixtures; having the color of pure snow; snowy; — the opposite of black or dark; as, white paper; a white skin. “Pearls white.” –Chaucer. White as the whitest lily on a stream. –Longfellow. 2. Destitute of color, as in the cheeks, or of the tinge of blood color; pale; pallid; as, white with fear. Or whispering with white lips, “The foe! They come! they come!” –Byron. 3. Having the color of purity; free from spot or blemish, or from guilt or pollution; innocent; pure. White as thy fame, and as thy honor clear. –Dryden. No whiter page than Addison’s remains. –Pope. 4. Gray, as from age; having silvery hair; hoary. Your high engendered battles ‘gainst a head So old and white as this. –Shak. 5. Characterized by freedom from that which disturbs, and the like; fortunate; happy; favorable. On the whole, however, the dominie reckoned this as one of the white days of his life. –Sir W. Scott. 6. Regarded with especial favor; favorite; darling. Come forth, my white spouse. –Chaucer. These are the words used to describe black and white. How could God be black according to these definitions? God must be white! Who wrote the definitions of these words? Whose words are these? It is with these words that people are valued or devalued and it is with these words that judgements are made. It is with these words that prejudices are formed and lies are perpetuated. I have long been annoyed that white christians have posed as missionaries and have perpetuated this lie, convincing people to worship a white God while devaluing the gods of the people that they strive to convert. Egotism! A reader sent this quote to me and I found it to be quite powerful. The quote is as follows: "When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed, when we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible." – Jomo Kenyatta. This has long been the tradition of the christian pirate! It has gone on so long that there are now millions of christian pirates, a great number of whom are not white at all. Brainwashing? Deceit? Misrepresentation? – PERPETUATION! Happy Otter visit my super fly site at http://members.home.com/happyotter

Response: