Talk Cancer

Question:

there are dozens of treatments all over the place with docs using anyone they can find as their guinea pigs.  I would contact FACT and follow their advice http://www.whale.to/cancer/advice.html john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks , what about gene therapy though does anywehre use it ? fergal

Response:

If the doctors treat a patient who may have a year to live without treatment and the patient dies in the first month because of the side effects of treatment (a very real possibility) what are the ethical issues then? Treatments for malignant diseases are not to be taken lightly. There is no reason why your friend should not have any symptoms such as pain treated very effectively. The treatment itself is not without considerable discomfort. MIKE

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you are gogin to start using common sense then you could also argue that it is unresonable to keep somene alive who is suffering in pain . my point if you going to stand by certain ethics or common sense then it should go all the way. most doctors i’ve dealt with use it to suit their own means , on one hand they use it to clinically dismiss people and give them no hope ( unless your spiritual )  and on the other they refuse to acknowledge it as option when someone is in unbearable pain. and .. if doctors are that erratic in their thinking they how exactly are we meant to trust them , esp whith health costs etc etc to deal with ? I can see your point about just avoiding the tests and lettiing things be, but I am nto sure jsut how long she has ( now they’re saying maybe a year ) which is long time – to be in agony if it comes down to that What do you want? A guarantee of cure? It doesn’t exist. no gurantees , but fighting chance to at least go out with a cry ratehr than a whimper and dignity A purveyor of unralistic hope? There are plenty of them around. It is no worse than the pessimist , unrelaistic is very subjective thing too. there are people who can achieve amazing feats and on metaphysicl level there have been more than theit fair share of events and teachings that suggest ( if wer were evolved enough ) we could transcend illness.. In all honesty I believe everythign we get is lesson and that as result there must be always a fighting chance or else our existece would be pointless.  In my friends case she is not being given the choice and to me it is the patient and not the doctor that should be allowed to make it , if doctors decide who lives ioe dies then what gives them teh right to denie patients enuthinasia too ? If the other optins would cost too much they shoudl tell them so at least eprhaps they know why rather than be left thinking there is no  hope, to lie to someoen and tell them there is no hope jsut because you acn;t afford to give them it is lying , a violatuion of patients trust and in effect killing them.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there are appropriate treatments then they are available in the UK. The UK is not alone in having waiting lists. The Shipman case has little to do with the NHS but a lot to do with odd types who get into the health service of health services everywhere. A health service is only as good as it is accessible. You might look longingly at the USA as an example but the best care (some would say any care) is not available to the whole population. I don’t know that the service is any better in Europe and certainly is not cheap. Is the problem with your friend that he is inappropriate for treatment? That is the only reason I can think of for your problems getting treatment. I know this is a hard thing to come to terms with but it does happen. MIKE opps , I thought that post was cancelled. I do agree with everything you said but the fact is the quality is not good , it is nto just the adminsistration side but the doctors themselves . my friend coudl day in matter of days but they are refusing to give ehr chemotherapy, they say they can treat and yet the every time they assure her the operation will work they discover the cancer elsewhere, in short they have got her on yo yo. They don’t seem to make allowance for failure and keep trying the same things that wont; work when they do , my point is if it’s not working and their are other options then why not try them ? if they dopn’t have these options then that speaks for itself

This all sounds like second and third-hand information. Have you spoken to the doctors? Maybe if you did (with your friend’s permission), the situation may be a little clearer. If your friend "could die in a few days" and the doctors are refusing to give her chemotherapy, she MAY have found that pearl beyond price – an oncologist with common sense.

Response:

Halleluja to that! MIKE

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If there are appropriate treatments then they are available in the UK. The UK is not alone in having waiting lists. The Shipman case has little to do with the NHS but a lot to do with odd types who get into the health service of health services everywhere. A health service is only as good as it is accessible. You might look longingly at the USA as an example but the best care (some would say any care) is not available to the whole population. I don’t know that the service is any better in Europe and certainly is not cheap. Is the problem with your friend that he is inappropriate for treatment? That is the only reason I can think of for your problems getting treatment. I know this is a hard thing to come to terms with but it does happen. MIKE opps , I thought that post was cancelled. I do agree with everything you said but the fact is the quality is not good , it is nto just the adminsistration side but the doctors themselves . my friend coudl day in matter of days but they are refusing to give ehr chemotherapy, they say they can treat and yet the every time they assure her the operation will work they discover the cancer elsewhere, in short they have got her on yo yo. They don’t seem to make allowance for failure and keep trying the same things that wont; work when they do , my point is if it’s not working and their are other options then why not try them ? if they dopn’t have these options then that speaks for itself This all sounds like second and third-hand information. Have you spoken to the doctors? Maybe if you did (with your friend’s permission), the situation may be a little clearer. If your friend "could die in a few days" and the doctors are refusing to give her chemotherapy, she MAY have found that pearl beyond price – an oncologist with common sense.

Response:

if you are gogin to start using common sense then you could also argue that it is unresonable to keep somene alive who is suffering in pain . my point if you going to stand by certain ethics or common sense then it should go all the way. most doctors i’ve dealt with use it to suit their own means , on one hand they use it to clinically dismiss people and give them no hope ( unless your spiritual )  and on the other they refuse to acknowledge it as option when someone is in unbearable pain. and .. if doctors are that erratic in their thinking they how exactly are we meant to trust them , esp whith health costs etc etc to deal with ? I can see your point about just avoiding the tests and lettiing things be, but I am nto sure jsut how long she has ( now they’re saying maybe a year ) which is long time – to be in agony if it comes down to that

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you are gogin to start using common sense then you could also argue that it is unresonable to keep somene alive who is suffering in pain . my point if you going to stand by certain ethics or common sense then it should go all the way. most doctors i’ve dealt with use it to suit their own means , on one hand they use it to clinically dismiss people and give them no hope ( unless your spiritual )  and on the other they refuse to acknowledge it as option when someone is in unbearable pain. and .. if doctors are that erratic in their thinking they how exactly are we meant to trust them , esp whith health costs etc etc to deal with ? I can see your point about just avoiding the tests and lettiing things be, but I am nto sure jsut how long she has ( now they’re saying maybe a year ) which is long time – to be in agony if it comes down to that

What do you want?  A guarantee of cure? It doesn’t exist. A purveyor of unralistic hope? There are plenty of them around.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you are gogin to start using common sense then you could also argue that it is unresonable to keep somene alive who is suffering in pain . my point if you going to stand by certain ethics or common sense then it should go all the way. most doctors i’ve dealt with use it to suit their own means , on one hand they use it to clinically dismiss people and give them no hope ( unless your spiritual )  and on the other they refuse to acknowledge it as option when someone is in unbearable pain. and .. if doctors are that erratic in their thinking they how exactly are we meant to trust them , esp whith health costs etc etc to deal with ? I can see your point about just avoiding the tests and lettiing things be, but I am nto sure jsut how long she has ( now they’re saying maybe a year ) which is long time – to be in agony if it comes down to that What do you want? A guarantee of cure? It doesn’t exist.

no gurantees , but fighting chance to at least go out with a cry ratehr than a whimper and dignity A purveyor of unralistic hope? There are plenty of them around.

It is no worse than the pessimist , unrelaistic is very subjective thing too. there are people who can achieve amazing feats and on metaphysicl level there have been more than theit fair share of events and teachings that suggest ( if wer were evolved enough ) we could transcend illness.. In all honesty I believe everythign we get is lesson and that as result there must be always a fighting chance or else our existece would be pointless.  In my friends case she is not being given the choice and to me it is the patient and not the doctor that should be allowed to make it , if doctors decide who lives ioe dies then what gives them teh right to denie patients enuthinasia too ? If the other optins would cost too much they shoudl tell them so at least eprhaps they know why rather than be left thinking there is no  hope, to lie to someoen and tell them there is no hope jsut because you acn;t afford to give them it is lying , a violatuion of patients trust and in effect killing them.

Response:

If there are appropriate treatments then they are available in the UK. The UK is not alone in having waiting lists. The Shipman case has little to do with the NHS but a lot to do with odd types who get into the health service of health services everywhere. A health service is only as good as it is accessible. You might look longingly at the USA as an example but the best care (some would say any care) is not available to the whole population. I don’t know that the service is any better in Europe and certainly is not cheap. Is the problem with your friend that he is inappropriate for treatment? That is the only reason I can think of for your problems getting treatment. I know this is a hard thing to come to terms with but it does happen. MIKE

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t know so much about Europe, but any competent UK cancer centre would be fine (and free). Where does your friend live? in Scotland, lockerbie close to the borders, unfortunately health care in the uk is not the greatest . It’s amongst the best in the world. my god your surely mistanken there, you only have to read our papers or hear the stories of waiting lists etc.. the casee of harold shipman is shining example of how incompetent they, it is not just the doctors it is also the adminstration , we have 3 rd world helathcare here and that is fact There is a first class cancer centre in Edinburgh, another in Glasgow, and another in Newcastle. All within a few hours drive. Has the GP not referred your friend to an oncologist? yes bu they have screwed up already which is why I am looking at otehr optiosn for them .

Response:

If there are appropriate treatments then they are available in the UK. The UK is not alone in having waiting lists. The Shipman case has little to do with the NHS but a lot to do with odd types who get into the health service of health services everywhere. A health service is only as good as it is accessible. You might look longingly at the USA as an example but the best care (some would say any care) is not available to the whole population. I don’t know that the service is any better in Europe and certainly is not cheap. Is the problem with your friend that he is inappropriate for treatment? That is the only reason I can think of for your problems getting treatment. I know this is a hard thing to come to terms with but it does happen. MIKE

opps , I thought that post was cancelled. I do agree with everything you said but the fact is the quality is not good , it is nto just the adminsistration side but the doctors themselves . my friend coudl day in matter of days but they are refusing to give ehr chemotherapy, they say they can treat and yet the every time they assure her the operation will work they discover the cancer elsewhere, in short they have got her on yo yo. They don’t seem to make allowance for failure and keep trying the same things that wont; work when they do , my point is if it’s not working and their are other options then why not try them ? if they dopn’t have these options then that speaks for itself

Response:

I have friend here in the uk who has been diagnosed with the above cancers , and was hoping someone here could suggest anywhere in Europe or the US ( preferably cheap ) that specialises in dealing with cancers , I’d also be interested in talking to any survivors if you happen to be one of them . thanks Fergal flannery

Response:

I have friend here in the uk who has been diagnosed with the above cancers , and was hoping someone here could suggest anywhere in Europe or the US ( preferably cheap ) that specialises in dealing with cancers , I’d also be interested in talking to any survivors if you happen to be one of them . thanks Fergal flannery

Don’t know so much about Europe, but any competent UK cancer centre would be fine (and free). Where does your friend live?

Response:

Don’t know so much about Europe, but any competent UK cancer centre would be fine (and free). Where does your friend live?

in Scotland, lockerbie close to the borders, unfortunately health care in the uk is not the greatest .

Response:

Don’t know so much about Europe, but any competent UK cancer centre would be fine (and free). Where does your friend live? in Scotland, lockerbie close to the borders, unfortunately health care in the uk is not the greatest .

It’s amongst the best in the world. There is a first class cancer centre in Edinburgh, another in Glasgow, and another in Newcastle. All within a few hours drive. Has the GP not referred your friend to an oncologist?

Response:

Don’t know so much about Europe, but any competent UK cancer centre would be fine (and free). Where does your friend live? in Scotland, lockerbie close to the borders, unfortunately health care in the uk is not the greatest . It’s amongst the best in the world.

my god your surely mistanken there, you only have to read our papers or hear the stories of waiting lists etc.. the casee of harold shipman is shining example of how incompetent they, it is not just the doctors it is also the adminstration , we have 3 rd world helathcare here and that is fact There is a first class cancer centre in Edinburgh, another in Glasgow, and another in Newcastle. All within a few hours drive. Has the GP not referred your friend to an oncologist?

yes bu they have screwed up already which is why I am looking at otehr optiosn for them .

Response:

this guy cured myeloma with gerson therapy http://www.whale.to/c/gearin.html some gerson sources http://www.whale.to/cancer/gerson.html  there is a gerson support group in the UK john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have friend here in the uk who has been diagnosed with the above cancers , and was hoping someone here could suggest anywhere in Europe or the US ( preferably cheap ) that specialises in dealing with cancers , I’d also be interested in talking to any survivors if you happen to be one of them . thanks Fergal flannery

Response:

thanks , what about gene therapy though does anywehre use it ? fergal

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t know so much about Europe, but any competent UK cancer centre would be fine (and free). Where does your friend live? in Scotland, lockerbie close to the borders, unfortunately health care in the uk is not the greatest . It’s amongst the best in the world. my god your surely mistanken there, you only have to read our papers or hear the stories of waiting lists etc.. the casee of harold shipman is shining example of how incompetent they, it is not just the doctors it is also the adminstration , we have 3 rd world helathcare here and that is fact There is a first class cancer centre in Edinburgh, another in Glasgow, and another in Newcastle. All within a few hours drive. Has the GP not referred your friend to an oncologist? yes bu they have screwed up already which is why I am looking at otehr optiosn for them .

I trained there and spent 16 years in the NHS. It has its faults, just like any other system, but by and large it is excellent. Here in Canada, a real estate agent called Bernardo kidnapped and raped and murdered young girls a few years ago. God,  real estate agents  in this country must be terrible. How does anyone ever sell a house?

Response: