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Question:

Has anybody experienced a stiff neck when their sinusitis gets bad. Mine gets both stiff and sore. When really bad it feels like my neck is on a ratchet as I turn it. Additionally, has anyone’s experience of the Grossan Water Pik been that the headaches are improved but their ears are continuously clogged? Yours with ringing ears, paul

Response:

I’ve got pretty bad sinus problems and I’ve found that it is definitely related to my neck.  I didn’t used to make the connection but about a year ago I started going to a chiropractor for headaches and he said he could also alleviate alot of the sinus pressure i felt. I didn’t believe it for a second.  But the day I went in for my first treatment I had my normal sinus pressure pain and the moment he adjusted my neck the pressure went away!  I was amazed!  I’ve definitely found that the days my neck are out of wack my sinus pressure is worse.  You might give a chiropractor a try.  I never thought they were legitimate until my husband had whiplash and the chiropractor took care of that within two visits.  They can definitely work! Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Paul Madsen wrote: >Has anybody experienced a stiff neck when their sinusitis gets bad. >Mine gets both stiff and sore. When really bad it feels like my neck is on >a ratchet as I turn it. >Additionally, has anyone’s experience of the Grossan Water Pik been that >the headaches are improved but their ears are continuously clogged? >Yours with ringing ears, >paul

Response:

Usuall the neck pain is the origin and reflects to the sinus area, and there may be no sinus disease at all. Many people say they have a sinus head pain and it turns out to be only a neck problem. That is the way the nerves are hooked up. Re stuffy ears after irrigation, the height of the saline stream should be between 1/2 and one inch, never higher. Also, be sure you salt concentration is OK. And don’t blow your nose hard after the irrigation. That is the usual cause of the ear symptoms, as it is rare among patients. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <5fp862$…@lana.zippo.com>, Paul Madsen wrote: > Has anybody experienced a stiff neck when their sinusitis gets bad. > Mine gets both stiff and sore. When really bad it feels like my neck is on > a ratchet as I turn it. > Additionally, has anyone’s experience of the Grossan Water Pik been that > the headaches are improved but their ears are continuously clogged? > Yours with ringing ears, > paul

Response:

All, In case you don’t remember or are new, I’ve had a very bad sinus infection since the beginning of January, flew twice and lost 16 days of work out of 20 on both trips. So I was very concerned about flying again. BUT>>>>I flew yesterday and am ALRIGHT!! I used the Grossan tip to irrigate JUST before I left the house and irrigated again as soon as I got in the room, then started the warm steam vaporizer, drank two cups of hot tea and napped for a bit. Then I got up and went to work for several hours, and worked with no problem for 8 hours today. THANK YOU DR. GROSSAN and DR TICHENOR!! Also a big thank you to Bob from Health Solutions, who apparently kept track of the date I said I was flying, because I logged on last night and there was a note from him asking how I did! — Clare healthy in Salt Lake City <BG>

Response:

Dr. Grossan, I would like to believe that my problems are neck related as I think it would be easier to treat and cure a neck problem than the sinuses themselves. However, while I can imagine how a "kinked" neck nerve could cause headaches and fatigue, I also experience achey eyes, stuffed ears, loss of smell and hearing, and a general "fullness" in the head. Coudl these be caused by neck troubles? Additionally, my symptoms are environmentally linked, meaning all else being equal, they get better outside. Although I don’t believe the neck stiffness is causal, I am experiencing with a pulsating shower head for both neck and facial hydrotherapy. Thanks for your reply Paul Madsen In article <grossan-ya02408000R0703972016580…@news.westworld.com>, gros…@westworld.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Usuall the neck pain is the origin and reflects to the sinus area, and >there may be no sinus disease at all. Many people say they have a sinus >head pain and it turns out to be only a neck problem. That is the way the >nerves are hooked up. >Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com >In article <5fp862$…@lana.zippo.com>, Paul Madsen wrote: >> Has anybody experienced a stiff neck when their sinusitis gets bad. >> Mine gets both stiff and sore. When really bad it feels like my neck is on >> a ratchet as I turn it. >> Additionally, has anyone’s experience of the Grossan Water Pik been that >> the headaches are improved but their ears are continuously clogged? >> Yours with ringing ears, >> paul

Response:

I too have had bad neck problems when and only when my sinuses have been especially bad.  I think I tense my neck and back muscles to stretch my face muscles and open my sinuses.  But it feels like it goes deeper than that, esp. since I have generalized myalgias from the long-term infection I had (so why not neck muscles?). Try taking Naprocyn  (sold OTC as Alleve).  Along with the shower massage it’s a good anti-inflammatory that seems to work better than Ibuprofen for me.  Acupuncture has really helped my neck, as it has helped every other symptom of my illness. Aaron On 10 Mar 1997, it was written: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dr. Grossan, I would like to believe that my problems are neck related as I > think it would be easier to treat and cure a neck problem than the sinuses > themselves. However, while I can imagine how a "kinked" neck nerve could cause > headaches and fatigue, I also experience achey eyes, stuffed ears, loss of smell > and hearing, and a general "fullness" in the head. Coudl these be caused by neck > troubles? Additionally, my symptoms are environmentally linked, meaning all else > being equal, they get better outside. > Although I don’t believe the neck stiffness is causal, I am experiencing with > a pulsating shower head for both neck and facial hydrotherapy. > Thanks for your reply > Paul Madsen > In article <grossan-ya02408000R0703972016580…@news.westworld.com>, gros…@westworld.com says… > >Usuall the neck pain is the origin and reflects to the sinus area, and > >there may be no sinus disease at all. Many people say they have a sinus > >head pain and it turns out to be only a neck problem. That is the way the > >nerves are hooked up. > >Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com > >In article <5fp862$…@lana.zippo.com>, Paul Madsen wrote: > >> Has anybody experienced a stiff neck when their sinusitis gets bad. > >> Mine gets both stiff and sore. When really bad it feels like my neck is on > >> a ratchet as I turn it. > >> Additionally, has anyone’s experience of the Grossan Water Pik been that > >> the headaches are improved but their ears are continuously clogged? > >> Yours with ringing ears, > >> paul

______________________________________________________________________ Aaron A. Fox                             Assistant Professor of Anthropology Adjunct Assistant Professor of Music The University of Washington  Box 353100, Seattle WA 98195-3100 FAX: 206-543-3285, TEL: 206-685-1811 EMAIL: a…@u.washington.edu    WWW: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~aaf/ ________________________________________________________________________ "This 10 percent tithing stuff . . . is that GROSS or NET?"                                   (overheard conversation on UW campus)

Response:

To Paul Statistically, people who have persistant pain in the sinus area have the origin in the neck. However, you describe a nasal congestion and this would not be cervical. However, do try the shower excercises in http://www.ent-consult.com and if you have no problem with Aleve, take these about 2 – 3 x a day. If the pain is really from the sinus – like vacuum sinusitis the Papaya is often effective. If you have heavy mucus and stuffiness, the pulsatile irrigator may clear this up. Keep us informed. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

In article <19970318041500.XAA29…@ladder01.news.aol.com>, entcons…@aol.com (ENTconsult) wrote: > To Paul > Statistically, people who have persistant pain in the sinus area have the > origin in the neck. However, you describe a nasal congestion and this > would not be cervical. However, do try the shower excercises in > http://www.ent-consult.com and if you have no problem with Aleve, take > these about 2 – 3 x a day. > If the pain is really from the sinus – like vacuum sinusitis the Papaya is > often effective. > If you have heavy mucus and stuffiness, the pulsatile irrigator may clear > this up. Keep us informed. > Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Dr.Grossan, I, this past weekend, ordered one of your irrigator tips but while I’m waiting for it arrive I have been using just the Waterpik minus the dental tip three times a day. This practice combined with a week worth of Augmentin and a decon twice daily (guaivent) has me feeling really pretty comfortable for the first time in awhile. In fact, I feel now that if I could just get might right ear unblocked I’d feel great. This is why I’m very interested in what you call vacuum sinusitis. It sounds to me like where I’m at. The only time in the last few days when I feel pressure behind my right eye and cheeck bone is when I try to clear my ears by blocking my nose or when I pick up the trombone (professional player averaging 2-3 hrs. per day although I’m laying off this week hoping to get my situation straight) I yesterday started the papaya and would like to know how long I would have to continue with it before I could expect some help in opening up my ear and also if the papaya does’nt work out if there is anything else (other than upping my intake of hot liquids which Ive also begun) that I could try. Thank you in advance. BTW thanks to you and all the other members of this group for checking in and weighing in on various questions. I feel like Ive learned more about what Ive been living with in the past week than I did in the last 2 years.

Response:

I want to second the remark about learning more here in a weeks than in years before this. I am into my third week with the irrigator and consider my results to be fantastic.  I have had NO noticeable sinus pain since I started at least one per day irrigation. I feel like I might have expected this from the fact that in the past, the BEST thing I could do for relief was to go to the YMCA steam room. This leads me to speculate that for those like me who get good relief from a steam room, the Grossan Irrigator is exactly the ticket.

Response:

Hi, I monitor this newsgroup sporadically and I was wondering if someone could explain the reference to papaya as a treatment for Sinusitus Donovan Wallace  Ottawa, Canada aau…@storm.ca – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > If the pain is really from the sinus – like vacuum sinusitis the Papaya is > > often effective. > > If you have heavy mucus and stuffiness, the pulsatile irrigator may clear > > this up. Keep us informed. > > Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

>If we were talking about some herbs [which are defined as 'dietary >suppliments'] I might expect more caution, but these tablets are made >from a fruit that can be found in the grocery.

And cyanide is available in the grocery store in your peach pits and apple seeds. Yes it appears to work, however, who knows the long term effect? Don’t think just because it is natural it is ok. I recently dropped a tablet in my nasal irrigation water, it worked even better.   Only a little bit dissolves before I am done, then I wash the tablet off ( ie. the salt and backing soda) then pop it in my mouth.  It works great.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bill McClure <bmccl…@shentel.net> wrote: >Aramar wrote: >> Can anyone point to any legitimate peer reviewed published studies >> supporting a link between reduction of sinusitis and papaya tablets? >> Sounds a bit quack-like to me, but I’m read to be proven wrong, since n ot >> much else works very well. >What would be so awful with just trying it to see if it works for you? >After all, it’s just *food*!  I’ll never understand why some people need >constant hand-holding and reassurance that certain things have been >tested by so-called "professionals" as being "safe."  Aren’t these the >exact same bureaucrats who’ve told us that saccharine, aspartame, >nicotine, etc. have been proven to cause all kinds of deadly diseases, >and yet they’re released for consumption by the general public as being >"safe" anyway?  And besides, each person’s body is going to react to >different substances in their own unique way anyway.  The foods that I’m >deathly allergic won’t even harm most people at all.  When doctors >prescribe something for you, they’re basically just "experimenting" on >you, since they have no idea how your body might react to it at first. >You know better than anyone else how your body feels when it’s reacting >something, positively *or* negatively.  Take responsibility for your own >health. >Sorry if I’ve sounded testy here, but doctors have totally ruined my >life and I don’t want to see anyone else fall into the same trap I did. >Bill

Way to say it Bill If we were talking about some herbs [which are defined as 'dietary suppliments'] I might expect more caution, but these tablets are made from a fruit that can be found in the grocery. I’m totally unpublished, but as a ‘peer’ my experience with the papaya tablets has been exceptionally good.  I have taken the tablets for indigestion for years.  I had never made a conscious connection between taking [chewing] the tablets and less sinus pain until I read Dr G’s suggestion.  When I paid attention to more than my gut, I realized that I was less stuffed after chewing papaya than before.  Now I stick ‘em in my cheek [as per Dr G ] and it works for me.  They also make my breath fresher, which is a real asset in the world of post nasal drip.  ;> Deb — ****** Deb’s Endeavors d…@mtjeff.com   or   de…@teleport.com  or   d…@spoonman.com If *I* ran the world, we would certainly face a different set of challenges.

Response:

Aramar wrote: > Can anyone point to any legitimate peer reviewed published studies > supporting a link between reduction of sinusitis and papaya tablets? > Sounds a bit quack-like to me, but I’m read to be proven wrong, since n ot > much else works very well.

What would be so awful with just trying it to see if it works for you? After all, it’s just *food*!  I’ll never understand why some people need constant hand-holding and reassurance that certain things have been tested by so-called "professionals" as being "safe."  Aren’t these the exact same bureaucrats who’ve told us that saccharine, aspartame, nicotine, etc. have been proven to cause all kinds of deadly diseases, and yet they’re released for consumption by the general public as being "safe" anyway?  And besides, each person’s body is going to react to different substances in their own unique way anyway.  The foods that I’m deathly allergic won’t even harm most people at all.  When doctors prescribe something for you, they’re basically just "experimenting" on you, since they have no idea how your body might react to it at first. You know better than anyone else how your body feels when it’s reacting something, positively *or* negatively.  Take responsibility for your own health. Sorry if I’ve sounded testy here, but doctors have totally ruined my life and I don’t want to see anyone else fall into the same trap I did. Bill

Response:

>According to the glossary of the book "Prescription for Nutritional >Healing," proteolytic enzymes are "enzymes that are able to break down >certain proteins, yet do not attack the beneficial proteins that make up >the normal cells of the body."

Hmmm.  I too would like to see a peer reviewed study on this.  A double blind statistically valid study.  

Response:

one reference is Majiima Y: Archives of Otorhinolaryngol 244:355, 1988 You asked for peer review articles. Interesting, there have been quite a few on guaifenesin being effective. Unfortunately they just published one stating it was not. And there are no peer review studies on Hot Tea either. Papaya tablets , one four times a day taken via the buccal pouch, helps the nasal cilia by reducing the viscosity of the mucus. Penicllin doesn’t cure every case of sinusitis and neither will the papaya, but helping the cilia move normally is a physiologic approach that works for my patients, especially the scuba divers who can’t clear unless the cilia are functional. . Please read Lancet re  A recent article in Lancet showed that many sinus infections are being overtreated with antibiotics. (Lancet (1997;349:683-687). In a true double blind study, the patients on placebo did about as well as the ones on antibiotics. So it behoves us to look for safer and simpler methods of treatment, preferrably that work. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com. In article <19970326031201.WAA01…@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ara…@aol.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Aramar) wrote: > Can anyone point to any legitimate peer reviewed published studies > supporting a link between reduction of sinusitis and papaya tablets? > Sounds a bit quack-like to me, but I’m read to be proven wrong, since n ot > much else works very well.

Response:

Can anyone point to any legitimate peer reviewed published studies supporting a link between reduction of sinusitis and papaya tablets? Sounds a bit quack-like to me, but I’m read to be proven wrong, since n ot much else works very well.

Response:

Dan Bahr wrote: > Bill McClure <bmccl…@shentel.net> wrote in article > <33335FDF.2…@shentel.net>… > >  Personally, I’ve found that taking proteolytic > > enzyme supplements has helped my chronic sinusitis and "vasomotor" > > rhinitis more than anything else I’ve ever tried, including Rx steroid > > sprays.  For the first time in about 15 years now, I have actually gone > > the past whole *month* without taking any decongestants at all. > ********************** > I have never heard the term "proteolytic enzyme supplements."  Can you > explain?

According to the glossary of the book "Prescription for Nutritional Healing," proteolytic enzymes are "enzymes that are able to break down certain proteins, yet do not attack the beneficial proteins that make up the normal cells of the body." Because of this, they have great value in reducing inflammation and preventing cancer cells from forming.  If taken with food, they also aid digestion.  The most readily available ones are obtained from tropical fruits — bromelain from pineapples and papain from papaya.  That’s the reason why jello won’t gel if you put fresh pineapple in it — the bromelain "digests" the gelatin and keeps it in a liquid state. However, this will not occur with canned pineapple because the bromelain is destroyed by being heated during the canning process.  Proteolytic enzymes are also the main component in some meat tenderizing preparations because of the way they help break down tough tissue. Bill

Response:

Bill McClure <bmccl…@shentel.net> wrote in article <33335FDF.2…@shentel.net>… >  Personally, I’ve found that taking proteolytic > enzyme supplements has helped my chronic sinusitis and "vasomotor" > rhinitis more than anything else I’ve ever tried, including Rx steroid > sprays.  For the first time in about 15 years now, I have actually gone > the past whole *month* without taking any decongestants at all.

********************** I have never heard the term "proteolytic enzyme supplements."  Can you explain? Dan Bahr — "You can close the show, you can stop me, but you’ll never stop rock and roll !"      - Alan Freed in "American Hot Wax"

Response:

Donovan Wallace wrote: > Hi, > I monitor this newsgroup sporadically and I was wondering if someone could > explain the reference to papaya as a treatment for Sinusitus > Donovan Wallace  Ottawa, Canada > aau…@storm.ca > > > If the pain is really from the sinus – like vacuum sinusitis the Papaya is > > > often effective. > > > If you have heavy mucus and stuffiness, the pulsatile irrigator may clear > > > this up. Keep us informed. > > > Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Actually it’s an enzyme called papain in papaya which was being discussed.  Like its cousin, bromelain from pineapples, these types of enzymes can reduce inflammation if taken on an empty stomach.  (When taken with food, they also aid with digestion, and may also help prevent cancer in the long run.)  Personally, I’ve found that taking proteolytic enzyme supplements has helped my chronic sinusitis and "vasomotor" rhinitis more than anything else I’ve ever tried, including Rx steroid sprays.  For the first time in about 15 years now, I have actually gone the past whole *month* without taking any decongestants at all. Bill

Response: