Talk Cancer

Question:

Hello I was wondering if this newsgroup had a place to find "frequently asked questions."  Please let me know. Thank you sarah

Response:

Please cite references for the above. They are just not true. For basic research, you may consider the following online resources:

I believe the above reference is from one of my posts. Difficult to tell since this wasn’t a follow up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Delaney still believes HIV is cytotoxic.  And actually thinks that there aren’t references to refute this.  His ignorance on such a basic, consensus conclusion on HIV today, leads one to conclude that he is either illiterate or a liar.  Read ‘em and weep, Marty-boy: (4) HIV causes AIDS by killing T-cells. However, viruses that integrate their genomes with that of the host, like HIV, cannot kill the host cell. Since the genes of such viruses are part of the host’s genes, integrated viruses can only replicate as long as the host survives integration and remains able to express integrated viral genes. All integrated viruses survive from passive, and some retroviruses also from active replication with the host. This strategy only works if the host survives integration. If the virus were to kill the cell as it is integrated, integration would be a useless exercise and it would be undetectable. Indeed, HIV is mass-produced for the "HIV test" in immortal T-cell lines in cell culture at titers of 106 infectious units per ml #(Rubinstein, 1990; Karpas et al., 1992)#.  *** Luc Montagnier, the discoverer of HIV, and many other researchers have confirmed that HIV does not kill T-cells *** #(Lemaitre et al., 1990; Duesberg, 1992)#. Rubinstein, E., 1990. II: The untold story of HUT78. Science 248: 1499-1507. Karpas, A., M. Lowdell, S. K. Jacobson and F. Hill, 1992. Inhibition of human immunodeficiency virus and growth of infected T cells by the immunosuppressive drugs cyclosporin A and FK 506. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 89: 8351-8355. Lemaitre, M., D. Guetard, Y. Henin, L. Montagnier and A. Zerial, 1990. Protective activity of tetracycline analogs against the cytopathic effect of the human immunodeficiency viruses in CEM cells. Res. Virol. 141: 5-16. Duesberg, P. H., 1992. AIDS acquired by drug consumption and other noncontagious risk factors. Pharmacology & Therapeutics 55: 201-277. [The relevant section is Section 3.5.10, "HIV is assumed to kill T-cells".] One should be on guard for such future lies from a leader of one of the most prominent AIDS "service" organizations. Darin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please cite references for the above. They are just not true. For basic research, you may consider the following online resources: Delaney still believes HIV is cytotoxic.  And actually thinks that there aren’t references to refute this.  His ignorance on such a basic, consensus conclusion on HIV today, leads one to conclude that he is either illiterate or a liar.  Read ‘em and weep, Marty-boy: (4) HIV causes AIDS by killing T-cells. However, viruses that integrate their genomes with that of the host, like HIV, cannot kill the host cell. Since the genes of such viruses are part of the host’s genes, integrated viruses can only replicate as long as the host survives integration and remains able to express integrated viral genes. All integrated viruses survive from passive, and some retroviruses also from active replication with the host. This strategy only works if the host survives integration. If the virus were to kill the cell as it is integrated, integration would be a useless exercise and it would be undetectable.

    Not hardly.  The virus obviously could integrate with some cells for long term, but integrate and then kill others.  The same thing does not need to happen in every cell.  Do you know anything about the lysogenic phages?  Do you know ANY viral biology, so you have some background against which to say what will, or what won’t, work as a strategy for a virus?  Indeed, HIV is mass-produced for the "HIV test" in immortal T-cell lines in cell culture at titers of 106 infectious units per ml #(Rubinstein, 1990; Karpas et al., 1992)#.

    It is now.  Before that, Montagnier couldn’t keep it alive because it killed all the cells in culture.  Gallo figured out how to grow it (in immortalized cancer cells) so this wouldn’t happen.  It’s his major contribution: figuring how to keep HIV from BEING cytopathic.  *** Luc Montagnier, the discoverer of HIV, and many other researchers have confirmed that HIV does not kill T-cells *** #(Lemaitre et al., 1990; Duesberg, 1992)#.

    Nonsense.  The very reference below in your own posting refutes you.  Are you stupid?  Can you read?  What do you think the paper below is about? Lemaitre, M., D. Guetard, Y. Henin, L. Montagnier and A. Zerial, 1990. Protective activity of tetracycline analogs against the cytopathic effect of the human immunodeficiency viruses in CEM cells. Res. Virol. 141: 5-16. One should be on guard for such future lies from a leader of one of

the most prominent AIDS "service" organizations. Darin

    Who’s been telling the lies here, Darin?                                     Steve Harris, M.D.

Response:

Please cite references for the above. They are just not true. For basic research, you may consider the following online resources: Delaney still believes HIV is cytotoxic.  And actually thinks that there aren’t references to refute this.  His ignorance on such a basic, consensus conclusion on HIV today, leads one to conclude that he is either illiterate or a liar.  Read ‘em and weep, Marty-boy:

You are tossing around words rather loosely.  HIV kills cells that it is infected with, for example when it forms syncytia.  HIV replicating in cells which it does not kill is able to induce uninfected cells to undergo apoptosis and die without ever becoming infected.  In culture, nonimmortalized cells which are productively infected die, even though in the absence of infection they do not. Your explanation that viruses that integrate "cannot" kill the host cell because if it did so it would kill itself is only true if the virus is integrated and not undergoing replication.  However in many cells of the body HIV is both integrated and replicating. One should be on guard for such future lies from a leader of one of the most prominent AIDS "service" organizations. Darin

One should also watch out for rubbish from dissidents. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Please cite references for the above. They are just not true. For basic research, you may consider the following online resources:

Delaney still believes HIV is cytotoxic.  And actually thinks that there aren’t references to refute this.  His ignorance on such a basic, consensus conclusion on HIV today, leads one to conclude that he is either illiterate or a liar.  Read ‘em and weep, Marty-boy: (4) HIV causes AIDS by killing T-cells. However, viruses that integrate their genomes with that of the host, like HIV, cannot kill the host cell. Since the genes of such viruses are part of the host’s genes, integrated viruses can only replicate as long as the host survives integration and remains able to express integrated viral genes. All integrated viruses survive from passive, and some retroviruses also from active replication with the host. This strategy only works if the host survives integration. If the virus were to kill the cell as it is integrated, integration would be a useless exercise and it would be undetectable. Indeed, HIV is mass-produced for the "HIV test" in immortal T-cell lines in cell culture at titers of 106 infectious units per ml #(Rubinstein, 1990; Karpas et al., 1992)#.  *** Luc Montagnier, the discoverer of HIV, and many other researchers have confirmed that HIV does not kill T-cells *** #(Lemaitre et al., 1990; Duesberg, 1992)#. Rubinstein, E., 1990. II: The untold story of HUT78. Science 248: 1499-1507. Karpas, A., M. Lowdell, S. K. Jacobson and F. Hill, 1992. Inhibition of human immunodeficiency virus and growth of infected T cells by the immunosuppressive drugs cyclosporin A and FK 506. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 89: 8351-8355. Lemaitre, M., D. Guetard, Y. Henin, L. Montagnier and A. Zerial, 1990. Protective activity of tetracycline analogs against the cytopathic effect of the human immunodeficiency viruses in CEM cells. Res. Virol. 141: 5-16. Duesberg, P. H., 1992. AIDS acquired by drug consumption and other noncontagious risk factors. Pharmacology & Therapeutics 55: 201-277. [The relevant section is Section 3.5.10, "HIV is assumed to kill T-cells".] One should be on guard for such future lies from a leader of one of the most prominent AIDS "service" organizations. Darin

Response: