Talk Cancer » Brain Cancer

What's on YOUR Ringtone..?

admin — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

When my phone rings, this song is played in MIDI: Ow! Look out! Ow! Look out! Ow! Look out! How long? How long? Till that mystery roach be arrivin’ soon Ya-ooo Ya-ooo Ya-ooo Ya-ooo That mystery roach be approachin’ That mystery roach be approachin’ me La La La La La La La, Oof! How long? How long? Till that mystery roach been gone Ya-ooo-ooo-oo-ooo Ya-ooo-ooo-oo-ooo That mystery roach be approachin’ That mystery roach be approachin’ me La La La La La La La, Oof! That mystery roach be approachin’ That mystery roach be approachin’ me La La La La La La La, Oof! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! . . . once in a minute . . . Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery mystery roach! Howard: Ah! Hold it! Wait a minute! Stop that music! Please . . . Hold it! Wait a minute! Ah . . . What are we SINGING about? A mystery roach? We must be . . . FLIPPING OUT! …It is history in the making… ……and it’s in the Key of ‘ A ‘.. …what more could any civilized man want…

Response:

My opinion: Ring tones are for kids. They are annoying as all hell. Mine is set to vibrate only. …and no, I do NOT pick up the call in a grocery store, restaurant, cinema… And I try not to use it in the car. I’m more coordinated than most, but half of the time you see a driver cross the lane marker, they’re on the freakin’ phone. HEY! You in the SUV wandering into my lane… It’s a car, not a phone booth!

Response:

My PH# is too private to worry about that, if I get a call, there is a reason. But I pull over, if no other reason I need to focus on the call..or the driving..not both. In a store, I just shut off..might try vib for s/grins. HEY! You in the SUV wandering into my lane… It’s a car, not a phone booth!

Just talking, or ESPN’ng/web surfing on a 3" screen, TOO much toy/too little phone. I don’t text msg, net on phone, or media anything, although my 2 V3I’s can do it all. NO mp3’s / songs on the phone (can hold 100+) and who cares Never liked vib from da phone, save as added to the ring. I just hate hearing some one elses stock factory ring thinking it’s mine. OK, Vib can change that, but the V3I has a week motion. I also know that few, if anyone around me have FZ MIDI as a ring tone. The V3I can run 20 secs+ of MIDI each ring thump. By the time Howard is asking "..what are we singing about.." I’ve hung up. JJTj

Response:

I’m not much for the phone to begin with and, fortunately, neither is my girlfriend; we both prefer to talk face to face. My phone is set to use least annoying ring that came with it.

Response:

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HELP

admin — Thu, 04 Aug 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

psychosis is a symptom of a disease. schizophrenia is a disease that may contain the symptom of psychosis. psychosis can also be a part of other diseases–mental illnesses such as depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder–or organic illnesses such as brain cancer, alzheimers, aids–or chemical (drug) use or withdrawal. psychosis can include delusions and or hallucinations. delusions are beliefs that are considered false by most people and yet are still believed by the psychotic person. for example you my think you are christ but your neighbor would disagree. or you may think that your mom is poisoning your food but the rest of your family says that’s "crazy" hallucinations are when you perceive things that others around you do not. for instance you may hear voices that no one else in the room hears. or you will see, hear, smell, feel or taste things others do not. schizophrenia has specific diagnosis criteria that must be met in order for that diagnosis to be made. i will not go into them here as i don’t know them by heart and they are not held the same world wide. schizophrenia has symptoms that are divided into two categories–positive symptoms and negative symptoms. these are not value judgements like positive symptoms are good and negative symptoms are bad–rather positive symptoms mean something is added and negative means something is taken away. positive symptoms include psychosis (delusions and hallucinations), thought disorder, catatonia and other symptoms. negative symptoms include avolition (not having motivation to do normal everyday things), ahedonia (inability to feel pleasure), poverty of thought and speech (meaning you don’t talk much or think much) and other symptoms. usually to obtain the diagnosis of schizophrenia you need to have both positive and negative symptoms (though not necessarily all of each) and to have symptoms for a significant length of time. there are also different categories of schizophrenia–such as paranoid schizophrenia, catatonic schizophrenia, undifferentiated schizophrenia, and schizo-affective disorder which is a combination of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. =============================================—————————— ———————————————============================== =============== om tare tutare ture soha

Response:

> > > Yeah… we need a book titled, "Living with Non-Schizophrenics".

That’s brilliant, a book written for sz’s to help them understand normals. Question is, is there anybody alive capable of such vision & objectivity? > Probably any schizophrenic who remembers how they were as "normal" would be > capable. I remembered how I used to be before all this happened, but I’m > afraid my view probably wouldn’t be the kind of view that’s needed to write a > book — not one that covers that topic.

In regards being able to write a book for sz’s on understanding normals. My memories of times previous are so distant & distorted through idealized reconstructions that I doubt the accuracy of my reflections. I’ve always disliked being around – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> lots of people, even as a kid. I disliked the sense of family. I was never > close to any of my family, even my own mother or father. I was a little > closer to my dad, but that was probably because he wasn’t as fascistic as my > mother was. In fact, I think my dad wanted to let me do more, but he was > caught between making me happy and making my mom happy. I think he tried the > best he could, but my mom really wore the pants in the family. I think > overall my dad’s a good man, but he just doesn’t understand nor agree with my > views about some things, the two main things being spirituality/religion and > cannabis. My mom is good, too, but when she feels like she’s supposed to be > responsible for somebody, she will go to extremes to make sure things go the > way she wants them go to. I think she had a problem raising both me and my > sister because she married my dad when he was 20 and she was 15, plus her dad > was extremely strict, I understand. So if all the shit rolled downhill, I may > be catching some, but some other people were stained along the way. > But to compound my situation, I was adopted and I figure that perhaps that > motherly feeling was never one that I experienced. It’s just a theory, mind > you, but I figure that a growing fetus is very much a part of the mother as > it’s growing. When they’re physically separated, if there really is such a > thing as a spiritual bond, it certainly exists between a mother and her infant > child. Did I have such a funky childhood because of the lack of that bond > with my adoptive mother? Did the loss of the bonding with my natural mother > actually cause my schizophrenia? Perhaps it did. I remember that one of the > things I was wishing for during the climax of my schizophrenia was to be an > illegitimate child, not knowing who my mom or dad was, nor any of my > relatives. I guess that perhaps my feeling of family was so warped that I > felt I’d be happier with no family at all. Of course, I can say this about > family. If I didn’t have a family, who knows what would have happened to me > after I left the state hospital.

My childhood memories contain a vision of a kid,…quiet,sensitive & introverted. You just know that the kid wasn’t gunna survive intact & I didn’t!! You remember how far your mother would go in your supposed best interests, well when I think of my mother certain Pink Floyd lyrics swirl to the surface. Mothers gunna make all your nightmares come true. Mothers gunna put all of her fears into you. Mothers gunna keep you here under her wing. Mother won’t let you fly, but she may let you sink Mothers gunna help build the wall. And the song goes on to tell of how protective she will be when you bring different girls around is she good enough is she dangerous will she tear your little boy apart will she break my heart Mother’s gunna check every thing out, Mother’s gunna wait till you get in, she’s not gunna let anyone dirty near you. SOUNDS like your adoptive mother loves you the same way that a natural mother would. It’s their version of love that leaves us removed, repressed & confused. The saddest part is that one of the theories I also had during the highs and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> lows of schizophrenia was that I had been abnormal all my life and finally I > was waking up and learning what others already knew because not until I began > experiencing the symptoms of schizophrenia was I able to feel emotions. It > was like spiritual puberty to me. I had all these feelings rushing in and I > was trying to figure out what it was about my situation that was making me > feel these weird feelings. Why did I cry when watching certain movies? I > wanted more input so I could experience more of these feelings and understand > them better. > I used to think of myself as somewhat Vulcan like, such as Mr. Spock from Star > Trek who is half human and half Vulcan, an species which operates through > logic and not emotion. Before schizophrenia I rarely showed any emotion > besides laughter. I tried expressing other feelnings during schizophrenia but > that was short-lived and I’m afraid I’m back to my old self again with one > important difference. I now say what I think instead of bottling everything > up. I’m still calm all the time. I don’t get angry, I don’t get sad or > really happy. Before I used to tell people what I thought would make them > happy. It stresses me out to do that now, so what I feel is what I express, > within reason. > Damaeus

Sz is kinda weird ain’t it, I,ve gone through transitions where I,ve felt & experienced so much on so many levels. But eventually, especially with med’s on board you return to a less pronounced flattened state. I can’t decide which is better or worse because their both SHIT!! I just want to be free of all this pain & confusion. Limbo

Response:

leonessa_vi…@my-deja.com wrote: > I have a question. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder with > psychosis. I had NO clue as to what psychosis is, so I did some research on > the internet, and it brought me to pages about schizophrenia. Is psychosis > the same thing as schizophrenia? If not…what’s the difference?

Schizophrenia is a condition of the mind that lends to hallucinations and delusions (psychosis). You can be schizophrenic and not be psychotic. Psychotic is when you lose touch with reality. Like, you think everyone is plotting against you or everyone is some sort of alien, or that you are some sort of supreme being or something. It’s very confusing to describe. I don’t know if you have psychotic depression or what. That’s when you get so depressed you are completely out of it. I think. Did your shrink actually say you were psychotic? I think being told you are psychotic can actually make you even more psychotic. Just, logically. That’s all you’d need to hear to push you over the edge. So, what’s it like, sometimes delusional, or what? K

Response:

In article <3A6666C5.4A0AE…@Managerie.com.au>, Dingo Dan… wrote: > Spiritus wrote: > > Yeah that’s true. Even that book "Living with Schizophrenia" really > > should be called "Living with Schizophrenics" > > It’s supposed to be a book for "Us" but most of it is for family or > > whoever about how to live with "us" > I find it disagreeable that the sz him/herself isn’t *educated* more about the > condition. > The focus/emphasis is disproportionately on the families.

Try and find a book that could educate us…. just try…. The emphasis on families is just another example of the dehumanization of "us". The idea seems to be that only the "real" people involved need educating. Not being "real" people, the focus always falls on someone other than "us" > > Definitely need some stuff directly aimed at and for "us". > I think we need to shout a little louder… > They don’t seem to hear our message/request…

One of us needs to write the book, I think it just comes down to that. Outsiders will always view it from their own "outside" view. > > Particularly > > stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s aimed at someone with the > > comprehension of a retarded 7 year old chimpanzee. > Take a care… > Some of my best friends are chimps.

They probably don’t like being talked down too either….. "wanna bannana?" SP

Response:

Limbo wrote: > > Yeah… we need a book titled, "Living with Non-Schizophrenics". > > Damaeus > That’s brilliant, a book written for sz’s to help them understand normals. > Question is, is there anybody alive capable of such vision & objectivity? > Limbo

Yes… [looks down modestly] Dingo Dan…

Response:

I have a question. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychosis. I had NO clue as to what psychosis is, so I did some research on the internet, and it brought me to pages about schizophrenia. Is psychosis the same thing as schizophrenia? If not…what’s the difference? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

Warning!… Working conspiracy theories in progress… Enter at own risk… 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 1 1 Go back… You are going the wrong way! 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Last chance… 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Ok…I lied… This is really your last chance. 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Spiritus wrote: > Try and find a book that could educate us…. just try…. > The emphasis on families is just another example of the dehumanization > of "us".

Agreed… We are psychotic… No point in trying to have a serious conversation with us… No point listening to what we have to say… No point telling us the "facts" …*your* "facts …since we will always laugh at the simplistic explanations we are force fed. (Well I sincerely hope so To the establishment: Fact: Knowledge of our situation will help us to cope better. "The truth will set you free"…so goes the quote. To have an informed opinion, one must first be informed…Duh! Wake up and smell the coffee, you power junkies! [duck]…[squawk]… )) > The idea seems to be that only the "real" people involved need > educating.

I have been an advocate of "education, not manipulation…" for many years… Once again, "The truth will set you free…" I have a friend who is convinced that many of us are used to educate others of the power of remote subliminal manipulation. The idea makes me sick to the stomach… Or not. > Not being "real" people, the focus always falls on someone other than > "us"

We seem to be simply dissmissed…disregarded…discouraged from hunting down the truth (which will set you free…[wink] > > > Definitely need some stuff directly aimed at and for "us". > > I think we need to shout a little louder… > > They don’t seem to hear our message/request… > One of us needs to write the book, I think it just comes down to that.

Some of us have tried here in this news group to talk the real talk… We are often simply then labelled psychotic and ignored… Or punished… The establishment is on a very good thing… They have had centuries to work on their discreditation practices. > Outsiders will always view it from their own "outside" view.

Ignorant people are ignorant people… Often you have to experience something before you can profoundly understand it. It "amuses" me when people tell us that we are out of touch…the ones who haven’t seriously researched the subject matter. What worries me is the realisation that so many people don’t think for themselves and simply automatically default the indoctrination/propaganda created by establishment sponsored social architects. It sickens me (or not when people who know what is going on and still let it happen unopposed… > > > Particularly > > > stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s aimed at someone with the > > > comprehension of a retarded 7 year old chimpanzee. > > Take a care… > > Some of my best friends are chimps. > They probably don’t like being talked down too either….. > "wanna bannana?"

Who doesn’t? [greedily snatches banana from keeper] )) Dingo Danana…

Response:

Whoops, this was a mistake, I didn’t want this posted as a reply to that last message. I’m still new to this deja thing. SOrry In article <94aeda$8m…@nnrp1.deja.com>, leonessa_vi…@my-deja.com wrote: > I have a question. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder with > psychosis. I had NO clue as to what psychosis is, so I did some research on > the internet, and it brought me to pages about schizophrenia. Is psychosis > the same thing as schizophrenia? If not…what’s the difference? > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

Many symptoms I have because or indicating schizophrenia have been with me for years like twenty or thirty years. But I have had only one real serious psychosis lasting about six months or less and needed to be hospitalised to end that state of mind. Depressed people have psychosis too I hear that is worse than a sz psychosis although more rare in depressions. leonessa_vi…@my-deja.com wrote: > I have a question. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder with > psychosis. I had NO clue as to what psychosis is, so I did some research on > the internet, and it brought me to pages about schizophrenia. Is psychosis > the same thing as schizophrenia? If not…what’s the difference? > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

———————————————————————- Peter Timusk third year part-time B.Math Statistics Carleton University e-mail: ptim…@chat.carleton.ca web: http://www3.sympatico.ca/ptimusk ———————————————————————-

Response:

Hi, My Name is Amy and I am doing a report on schizophrenia. I was wondering if an adult could e-mail me at MENTO P…@aol.com and give me some information on what it is like living with someone who is schizophrenic. Or in any case anyone could help my please. Thanks for your time it is much appreciated. Amy

Response:

I’ve never lived with a schizophrenic unless you stretch that category to include one’s self. Walt Mento P79 wrote in message

news:20010115214127.15741.00000446@ng-bk1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > My Name is Amy and I am doing a report on schizophrenia. I was wondering if an > adult could e-mail me at MENTO P…@aol.com and give me some information on what > it is like living with someone who is schizophrenic. Or in any case anyone > could help my please. > Thanks for your time it is much appreciated. > Amy

Response:

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:08:55 -0500, "walt" posted a message in news:alt.support.schizophrenia, which said: > I’ve never lived with a schizophrenic unless you stretch that category to > include one’s self.

And besides that, I think we have enough articles floating around on "the horrors of living with a schizophrenic". I figure that schizophrenics should be free to tell their side of the story and the best way to do that is textually, at least for most schizophrenics. I know I’m quite bold in writing at times, but people who meet me or talk to me can’t believe they’re talking to the same person who wrote the messages they’ve been reading. Damaeus

Response:

Hi Amy! I can not tell you what it is like to live with a schizophrenic, but I can tell you what it is like to be one. I am constantly living in fear. I feel someone is trying to kill me. I always am hearing voices and seeing people that aren’t really there. To me they are real but not to anyone else. It is very frustrating because I don’t know when I am in the real world or not. I have three little girls that don’t understand why Mommy is crying or why she is hospitalized every year for a couple of weeks each year trying to stabilize Mommy’s medication. They don’t understand why I sleep all the time because of the side effects of the medicine. It is not an easy life living with this illness that seems no one understands. I hope I have helped you a little bit. From Tracy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Meant P79 wrote: > Hi, > My Name is Amy and I am doing a report on schizophrenia. I was wondering if an > adult could e-mail me at MENTO P…@aol.com and give me some information on what > it is like living with someone who is schizophrenic. Or in any case anyone > could help my please. > Thanks for your time it is much appreciated. > Amy

Response:

In article , Damaeus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:08:55 -0500, "walt" posted a > message in news:alt.support.schizophrenia, which said: > > I’ve never lived with a schizophrenic unless you stretch that category to > > include one’s self. > And besides that, I think we have enough articles floating around on "the > horrors of living with a schizophrenic". I figure that schizophrenics should > be > free to tell their side of the story and the best way to do that is textually, > at least for most schizophrenics. I know I’m quite bold in writing at times, > but people who meet me or talk to me can’t believe they’re talking to the same > person who wrote the messages they’ve been reading. > Damaeus

Yeah that’s true. Even that book "Living with Schizophrenia" really should be called "Living with Schizophrenics" It’s supposed to be a book for "Us" but most of it is for family or whoever about how to live with "us" Definitely need some stuff directly aimed at and for "us". Particularly stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s aimed at someone with the comprehension of a retarded 7 year old chimpanzee. sp

Response:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:30:36 -0800, Spiritus posted a message in news:alt.support.schizophrenia, which said: > Yeah that’s true. Even that book "Living with Schizophrenia" really > should be called "Living with Schizophrenics" > It’s supposed to be a book for "Us" but most of it is for family or > whoever about how to live with "us" > Definitely need some stuff directly aimed at and for "us". Particularly > stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s aimed at someone with the > comprehension of a retarded 7 year old chimpanzee.

Yeah… we need a book titled, "Living with Non-Schizophrenics". Damaeus

Response:

Spiritus wrote: > Yeah that’s true. Even that book "Living with Schizophrenia" really > should be called "Living with Schizophrenics" > It’s supposed to be a book for "Us" but most of it is for family or > whoever about how to live with "us"

I find it disagreeable that the sz him/herself isn’t *educated* more about the condition. The focus/emphasis is disproportionately on the families. > Definitely need some stuff directly aimed at and for "us".

I think we need to shout a little louder… They don’t seem to hear our message/request… > Particularly > stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s aimed at someone with the > comprehension of a retarded 7 year old chimpanzee.

Take a care… Some of my best friends are chimps. TC… Dingo Dan …a k9 orangoDan…

Response:

"Damaeus" wrote in message

news:81oc6ts5mf6lrc1cffttdq9s7hdrcopoln@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:30:36 -0800, Spiritus posted a > message in news:alt.support.schizophrenia, which said: > > Yeah that’s true. Even that book "Living with Schizophrenia" really > > should be called "Living with Schizophrenics" > > It’s supposed to be a book for "Us" but most of it is for family or > > whoever about how to live with "us" > > Definitely need some stuff directly aimed at and for "us". Particularly > > stuff that doesn’t sound like it’s aimed at someone with the > > comprehension of a retarded 7 year old chimpanzee. > Yeah… we need a book titled, "Living with Non-Schizophrenics". > Damaeus

That’s brilliant, a book written for sz’s to help them understand normals. Question is, is there anybody alive capable of such vision & objectivity? Limbo

Response:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:14:03 +1100, "Limbo" posted a message in news:alt.support.schizophrenia, which said: > "Damaeus" wrote in message > news:81oc6ts5mf6lrc1cffttdq9s7hdrcopoln@4ax.com… > > Yeah… we need a book titled, "Living with Non-Schizophrenics". > That’s brilliant, a book written for sz’s to help them understand normals. > Question is, is there anybody alive capable of such vision & objectivity?

Probably any schizophrenic who remembers how they were as "normal" would be capable. I remembered how I used to be before all this happened, but I’m afraid my view probably wouldn’t be the kind of view that’s needed to write a book — not one that covers that topic. I’ve always disliked being around lots of people, even as a kid. I disliked the sense of family. I was never close to any of my family, even my own mother or father. I was a little closer to my dad, but that was probably because he wasn’t as fascistic as my mother was. In fact, I think my dad wanted to let me do more, but he was caught between making me happy and making my mom happy. I think he tried the best he could, but my mom really wore the pants in the family. I think overall my dad’s a good man, but he just doesn’t understand nor agree with my views about some things, the two main things being spirituality/religion and cannabis. My mom is good, too, but when she feels like she’s supposed to be responsible for somebody, she will go to extremes to make sure things go the way she wants them go to. I think she had a problem raising both me and my sister because she married my dad when he was 20 and she was 15, plus her dad was extremely strict, I understand. So if all the shit rolled downhill, I may be catching some, but some other people were stained along the way. But to compound my situation, I was adopted and I figure that perhaps that motherly feeling was never one that I experienced. It’s just a theory, mind you, but I figure that a growing fetus is very much a part of the mother as it’s growing. When they’re physically separated, if there really is such a thing as a spiritual bond, it certainly exists between a mother and her infant child. Did I have such a funky childhood because of the lack of that bond with my adoptive mother? Did the loss of the bonding with my natural mother actually cause my schizophrenia? Perhaps it did. I remember that one of the things I was wishing for during the climax of my schizophrenia was to be an illegitimate child, not knowing who my mom or dad was, nor any of my relatives. I guess that perhaps my feeling of family was so warped that I felt I’d be happier with no family at all. Of course, I can say this about family. If I didn’t have a family, who knows what would have happened to me after I left the state hospital. The saddest part is that one of the theories I also had during the highs and lows of schizophrenia was that I had been abnormal all my life and finally I was waking up and learning what others already knew because not until I began experiencing the symptoms of schizophrenia was I able to feel emotions. It was like spiritual puberty to me. I had all these feelings rushing in and I was trying to figure out what it was about my situation that was making me feel these weird feelings. Why did I cry when watching certain movies? I wanted more input so I could experience more of these feelings and understand them better. I used to think of myself as somewhat Vulcan like, such as Mr. Spock from Star Trek who is half human and half Vulcan, an species which operates through logic and not emotion. Before schizophrenia I rarely showed any emotion besides laughter. I tried expressing other feelnings during schizophrenia but that was short-lived and I’m afraid I’m back to my old self again with one important difference. I now say what I think instead of bottling everything up. I’m still calm all the time. I don’t get angry, I don’t get sad or really happy. Before I used to tell people what I thought would make them happy. It stresses me out to do that now, so what I feel is what I express, within reason. Damaeus

Response:

"puff" is slang for a woman’s physiolgical sexual response?

Response:

Hello. I am a young introvert woman who came lately out of a sharp raving puff. I would like to speak to someone who is familiar with those things (a psychologist for example) to surmount this past crisis. Thank you for writing to me. My e-mail is sirius_fl…@hotmail.com

Response:

Sirius Flame wrote: > Hello. > I am a young introvert woman who came lately out of a sharp raving > puff. I would like to speak to someone who is familiar with those > things (a psychologist for example) to surmount this past crisis. > Thank you for writing to me. My e-mail is sirius_fl…@hotmail.com

r u sirius???

Response:

cute –

Response:

question: does anyone here have experience with muscle spasms? (myoclonus, myokymia, etcetera)

admin — Sat, 14 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: > On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:29:52 -0700, "Michael" > wrote: >> Yep. I’m dealing with some mild myoclonus in my right lower back >> for the past month or so. I hate it, and it often really *hurts*. >> Smoking a tiny bit of pot every few hours helps it quite a bit, but >> I greatly fear I’ll soon be needing to give that up infavour of (or >> at least supplement it with) some nasty chemicals. > Yeah I smoke a little bit of pot every day, it helps alot of my > symptoms and puts me in a good mood. Unfortuneately it’s very > expensive around here, too bad insurance doesn’t cover it!

Oh, yeah… would that it *could*. :-) I dunno what constitutes "very expensive" where you are… I have a feeling you’re in the UK, but your posting host makes you unlocatable unless I wanna do some investigative work – for which I’m seldom in the mood unless I’m threatened. Here in northwestern British Columbia, the best bud to be found (kush, rhino, widow, blueberry and such) runs $35-40 or maybe more for an eighth… unless you have grower friends. The two nice things about it is that for me, an eighth of top-quality bud is 2 months’ worth or more, and $20/month is truly as cheap as dirt when compared to the (much more risky/toxic/expensive) pharmaceuticals I might buy for the same purpose. > A protein > shake every morning helps ALOT too (soy milk mixed with whey protein > powder, it’s about 50g of protein, makes me feel great).

I do kinda the same thing (though seldom), but my version’s a lot higher in fat: low-fat cottage cheese, *lots* of other cheeses, and lots of halibut, salmon and venison. >> Get used to reading up on meds and other treatments if you aren’t >> already doing that. A lot of it is of value to only a few people, >> but you never know what treasures await only you amid all the dross. > Thanks for the advice, you’re a big help.

I try. ((U)) M

Response:

On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:29:52 -0700, "Michael" wrote: >Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: >> Hi guys! Let me introduce myself real quick, I’m a 22 year old white >> male, and I was diagnosed with MS back in December of 2001. >You’re too fucking young for this crap. News like yours gets in my face.

Thanks for responding. Yeah I’ve never met anyone else with MS that’s my age, when I go to the neurologist everyone is 35+ years of age. I’ve read that the prognosis for those diagnosed before age 25 is somewhat better than those diagnosed later in life, I have no idea if that’s true or not, but I allow myself to believe it for the sake of my sanity! >> This attack has left me somewhat disabled due to a terrible shakiness >> in my entire body. Maybe disabled is the wrong word, I haven’t found >> any of my usual activities to be impossible, just extremely difficult! >Yep. That’s been the case for each attack I’ve been through: none has >truly "disabled" me, but every one has left me with a new (sometimes nasty) >limitation or impediment to doing what I do. I haven’t given very much up >entirely, but there is an increasing number of things that take more energy, >more concentration and/or more adaptative creativity than they ever did >before. Life’s like that. I’m happy the dx wasn’t metastatic >brain cancer (as the first sensible doc I saw about this stuff said it might >be.)

Yeah I was scared when they initially said it might be AIDS, luckily the tests came back ok. (phew) With my past attacks I’ve been able to recover to a degree in which most of my symptoms are negligible, but the recovery process takes a long time. >> I wanted to ask if any of you experience this kind of a symptom, >Yep. I’m dealing with some mild myoclonus in my right lower back for the >past month or so. I hate it, and it often really *hurts*. Smoking a tiny >bit of pot every few hours helps it quite a bit, but I greatly fear I’ll >soon be needing to give that up infavour of (or at least supplement it with) >some nasty chemicals.

Yeah I smoke a little bit of pot every day, it helps alot of my symptoms and puts me in a good mood. Unfortuneately it’s very expensive around here, too bad insurance doesn’t cover it! A protein shake every morning helps ALOT too (soy milk mixed with whey protein powder, it’s about 50g of protein, makes me feel great). >> and >> if so how you deal with it. I’ve heard good things about the drug >> Tegretol, has anyone tried it? >Tegretol (CARBAMAZEPINE) is a life-saver for many people… but it’s a >benzodiazepine (closely related to valium,) it’s very addictive (not a real >major concern, but it has important implications if you have to stop taking >it,) and it has some potential for causing serious cognitive impairment. >It’s also got some other (occasionally severe) side effects that you should >consider before you decide about taking it or not.

Ahh yes I’ve heard good things about Tegretol. I’ve used Valium before (back when I was suffering from severe vertigo) and luckily the side effects were minimal. I hate to pile on ANOTHER medication to what I’m already taking, but hey whatever it takes! I’ll ask my doctor. >Check out: >http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Meds-Carbamazepine.asp (good, basic info… >though it fails to list all the reasons for prescribing it in MS >symptom-management) >http://bipolar.about.com/cs/sfx/a/sfx_tegretol.htm (I’m bipolar and this is >important stuff, just in case) >Get used to reading up on meds and other treatments if you aren’t already >doing that. A lot of it is of value to only a few people, but you never >know what treasures await only you amid all the dross.

Thanks for the advice, you’re a big help. Josiah

Response:

On Tue, 17 May 2005 21:00:57 -0700, "Michael" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: >Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: >> On Sat, 14 May 2005 20:29:52 -0700, "Michael" >> wrote: >>> Yep. I’m dealing with some mild myoclonus in my right lower back >>> for the past month or so. I hate it, and it often really *hurts*. >>> Smoking a tiny bit of pot every few hours helps it quite a bit, but >>> I greatly fear I’ll soon be needing to give that up infavour of (or >>> at least supplement it with) some nasty chemicals. >> Yeah I smoke a little bit of pot every day, it helps alot of my >> symptoms and puts me in a good mood. Unfortuneately it’s very >> expensive around here, too bad insurance doesn’t cover it! >Oh, yeah… would that it *could*. :-) >I dunno what constitutes "very expensive" where you are… I have a feeling >you’re in the UK, but your posting host makes you unlocatable unless I wanna >do some investigative work – for which I’m seldom in the mood unless I’m >threatened. >Here in northwestern British Columbia, the best bud to be found (kush, >rhino, widow, blueberry and such) runs $35-40 or maybe more for an eighth… >unless you have grower friends. The two nice things about it is that for >me, an eighth of top-quality bud is 2 months’ worth or more, and $20/month >is truly as cheap as dirt when compared to the (much more >risky/toxic/expensive) pharmaceuticals I might buy for the same purpose.

I’m on the East coast of USA, and the last time I bought some it was $135 for half an ounce. That actually sounds like about what you pay over there. I guess I’m spoiled, I used to live in Texas and prices were very low there, I think because of the huge quantity of pot coming over the border from Mexico. An entire ounce could be had for less than $50! >> A protein >> shake every morning helps ALOT too (soy milk mixed with whey protein >> powder, it’s about 50g of protein, makes me feel great). >I do kinda the same thing (though seldom), but my version’s a lot higher in >fat: low-fat cottage cheese, *lots* of other cheeses, and lots of halibut, >salmon and venison.

Sounds very nutritious, but *gag* a fish and cheese protein shake??? You’re a brave soul… Josiah

Response:

Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: > I’m on the East coast of USA, and the last time I bought some it was > $135 for half an ounce. That actually sounds like about what you pay > over there. I guess I’m spoiled, I used to live in Texas and prices > were very low there, I think because of the huge quantity of pot > coming over the border from Mexico. An entire ounce could be had for > less than $50!

Not anymore! Still not as much as you are paying on the E. coast but the last time I found some it was either 80 or 90.

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I too thought the same thing. I generally don’t think of myself as old at 43 but there does seem to be a ton of newbie’s around, just diagnosed, and in there early 20s only. I could not even imagine seeing the doc for anything possible being MS until late in my 30’s – I would have not bean diagnosed but for a weird symptom that was looked into because I was pregnant at the time at 32 YO. I feel for these youngsters (!) who are having similar problems at 22-24 YO..sigh. — Laura "Michael" wrote in message

news:Lfudna9gv7WrXxvfRVn-1Q@qcislands.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ooops! I sent before saying anything. :- > Sorry ’bout dat, Josiah. > Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: >> Hi guys! Let me introduce myself real quick, I’m a 22 year old white >> male, and I was diagnosed with MS back in December of 2001. > You’re too fucking young for this crap. News like yours gets in my > face. >> I’ve had 4 >> attacks total, including one just recently. I’m on Rebif >> (interferon), >> and was treated with a 3 day dose of Solumedrol (steroid) for this >> most recent attack. > Sounds pretty standard, so far. >> This attack has left me somewhat disabled due to a terrible >> shakiness >> in my entire body. Maybe disabled is the wrong word, I haven’t found >> any of my usual activities to be impossible, just extremely >> difficult! > Yep. That’s been the case for each attack I’ve been through: none > has truly "disabled" me, but every one has left me with a new > (sometimes nasty) limitation or impediment to doing what I do. I > haven’t given very much up entirely, but there is an increasing > number of things that take more energy, more concentration and/or > more adaptative creativity than they ever did before. > Life’s like that. I’m happy the dx wasn’t metastatic brain cancer > (as the first sensible doc I saw about this stuff said it might be.) >> I wanted to ask if any of you experience this kind of a symptom, > Yep. I’m dealing with some mild myoclonus in my right lower back > for the past month or so. I hate it, and it often really *hurts*. > Smoking a tiny bit of pot every few hours helps it quite a bit, but I > greatly fear I’ll soon be needing to give that up infavour of (or at > least supplement it with) some nasty chemicals. >> and >> if so how you deal with it. I’ve heard good things about the drug >> Tegretol, has anyone tried it? > Tegretol (CARBAMAZEPINE) is a life-saver for many people… but it’s > a benzodiazepine (closely related to valium,) it’s very addictive > (not a real major concern, but it has important implications if you > have to stop taking it,) and it has some potential for causing > serious cognitive impairment. It’s also got some other (occasionally > severe) side effects that you should consider before you decide about > taking it or not. > Check out: > http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Meds-Carbamazepine.asp (good, basic > info… though it fails to list all the reasons for prescribing it in > MS symptom-management) > http://bipolar.about.com/cs/sfx/a/sfx_tegretol.htm (I’m bipolar and > this is important stuff, just in case) > Get used to reading up on meds and other treatments if you aren’t > already doing that. A lot of it is of value to only a few people, > but you never know what treasures await only you amid all the dross.

Response:

Hi guys! Let me introduce myself real quick, I’m a 22 year old white male, and I was diagnosed with MS back in December of 2001. I’ve had 4 attacks total, including one just recently. I’m on Rebif (interferon), and was treated with a 3 day dose of Solumedrol (steroid) for this most recent attack. This attack has left me somewhat disabled due to a terrible shakiness in my entire body. Maybe disabled is the wrong word, I haven’t found any of my usual activities to be impossible, just extremely difficult! I wanted to ask if any of you experience this kind of a symptom, and if so how you deal with it. I’ve heard good things about the drug Tegretol, has anyone tried it? Josiah

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: > Hi guys! Let me introduce myself real quick, I’m a 22 year old white > male, and I was diagnosed with MS back in December of 2001. I’ve had 4 > attacks total, including one just recently. I’m on Rebif (interferon), > and was treated with a 3 day dose of Solumedrol (steroid) for this > most recent attack. > This attack has left me somewhat disabled due to a terrible shakiness > in my entire body. Maybe disabled is the wrong word, I haven’t found > any of my usual activities to be impossible, just extremely difficult! > I wanted to ask if any of you experience this kind of a symptom, and > if so how you deal with it. I’ve heard good things about the drug > Tegretol, has anyone tried it? > Josiah

Response:

Ooops! I sent before saying anything. :- Sorry ’bout dat, Josiah. Josiah Daniel Suarez wrote: > Hi guys! Let me introduce myself real quick, I’m a 22 year old white > male, and I was diagnosed with MS back in December of 2001.

You’re too fucking young for this crap. News like yours gets in my face. > I’ve had 4 > attacks total, including one just recently. I’m on Rebif (interferon), > and was treated with a 3 day dose of Solumedrol (steroid) for this > most recent attack.

Sounds pretty standard, so far. > This attack has left me somewhat disabled due to a terrible shakiness > in my entire body. Maybe disabled is the wrong word, I haven’t found > any of my usual activities to be impossible, just extremely difficult!

Yep. That’s been the case for each attack I’ve been through: none has truly "disabled" me, but every one has left me with a new (sometimes nasty) limitation or impediment to doing what I do. I haven’t given very much up entirely, but there is an increasing number of things that take more energy, more concentration and/or more adaptative creativity than they ever did before. Life’s like that. I’m happy the dx wasn’t metastatic brain cancer (as the first sensible doc I saw about this stuff said it might be.) > I wanted to ask if any of you experience this kind of a symptom,

Yep. I’m dealing with some mild myoclonus in my right lower back for the past month or so. I hate it, and it often really *hurts*. Smoking a tiny bit of pot every few hours helps it quite a bit, but I greatly fear I’ll soon be needing to give that up infavour of (or at least supplement it with) some nasty chemicals. > and > if so how you deal with it. I’ve heard good things about the drug > Tegretol, has anyone tried it?

Tegretol (CARBAMAZEPINE) is a life-saver for many people… but it’s a benzodiazepine (closely related to valium,) it’s very addictive (not a real major concern, but it has important implications if you have to stop taking it,) and it has some potential for causing serious cognitive impairment. It’s also got some other (occasionally severe) side effects that you should consider before you decide about taking it or not. Check out: http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Meds-Carbamazepine.asp (good, basic info… though it fails to list all the reasons for prescribing it in MS symptom-management) http://bipolar.about.com/cs/sfx/a/sfx_tegretol.htm (I’m bipolar and this is important stuff, just in case) Get used to reading up on meds and other treatments if you aren’t already doing that. A lot of it is of value to only a few people, but you never know what treasures await only you amid all the dross.

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Did I just hear somethng new on Tysabri???

admin — Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Aleric wrote: > That’s true. I was dx 6.5 years ago, so we’ve seen the same advancements as > far as available MS therapies. However, I consider the all of the CRAB > drugs as one therapy. They are all about the same in terms of efficacy, so > the choice really comes down to lifestyle, side-effects, and things like > that. Therefore, the oft-quoted number of MS treatments available today > seems a bit misleading to me. Novantrone is different, but it is only > indicated for patients whose MS is very active or has reached a certain > stage. I know I’m not a candidate for Novantrone at this point, so it’s not > an option.

i would separate copaxone from the interferons personally, but agree with you about the CRAB choice coming down to side effects and personal preferences. it’s occasionally frustrating for me when i see how much of the M.S. research being done is being done on already-existing therapies, whether combo trials or better packaging or whatever the case may be — but i understand (some of) the reasons it’s that way. being secondary progressive, once in a while i wish more options applied well to my own badself, but it seems more research really IS being done into SPMS, for which i’m glad. if tysabri had lived up to expectations, i’d have been glad for RRMS folks as well, because it sure did look like an ace relapse reducer, and i also feel bad for those who improved in the trials and those who were looking forward to starting tysabri after the initial FDA approval. i don’t get excited about the M.S. research often anymore — tysabri kind of sneaked through, then roared right on out the back. i was part of the second wave in the original betaseron ‘lottery,’ and the hooplah bordered on hysteria back in those days, among patients and neurologists alike. i was dx’d in 1990, and it was seroids and IVIG at the time, period, so there was huge excitement surrounding THE first new therapy approved for M.S. in — well, long before i was diagnosed, i reckon! now we’re all much more informed — sometimes to the point of being blase — and speak so casually about how the CRABs are only effective with RRMS, and only partially so at that. myself definitely included! at the same time, to the general public, every new study is a ‘BREAKTHROUGH!’ i don’t think i really have any point, other than ‘what a long, strange trip it’s been!" rose

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Thank you Bob, Rob, A little reasurance really goes a long way. -Lucy

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hoW DID YOU HEAR THIS, I HAVE BEEN WAITING….

Response:

"KKT" wrote in message

news:424cb987$1_2@newspeer2.tds.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Aleric wrote: >>>"Unlike the two MS patients identified in February, who took Tysabri in >>>combination with an older Biogen Idec MS drug, Avonex, the third case >>>involves a patient who suffered from Crohn’s disease and was taking >>>Tysabri alone as part of a different set of Crohn’s clinical trials." >> That’s a very good question. I noticed that, also. The Bloomberg.com >> piece that Jils posted did not elaborate on what the "immune-suppressing >> drugs" were taken for. One might initially assume that it could’ve been >> for Crohn’s (an autoimmune condition that involving the inflammation of >> the bowels), but it could be for some other condition that wasn’t >> disclosed. The article didn’t say. Of course, new drug trial protocols >> do not typically allow for the subject to take other drugs for the >> condition under study, for obvious reasons. However, I do not know much >> about that particular Crohn’s study, or what the protocol was. I suppose >> it is possible that the use of other drugs were allowed under certain >> circumstances. >> "The new case of PML was initially diagnosed as malignant astrocytoma, a >> kind of brain cancer. Biogen and Elan said they worked with the clinical >> investigator to re-evaluate the case as part of a safety review. The >> patient had received eight doses of Tysabri over a period of 18 months, >> according to Biogen, and was also being treated with immune-system >> suppressing drugs." > I checked it out again … there seems to be conflicting reports. Of > course, most of the stuff I read was from the financial pages. Once I had > a "well, duh" moment, I went to Elan’s site and found this: > As part of this ongoing safety review, the companies, > in agreement with the clinical trial investigator, > reassessed the case. Following this additional > evaluation, the diagnosis is being reassessed as > PML. The patient had received 8 doses of TYSABRI > over an 18 month period and prior medication history > included multiple courses of immunosuppressant agents. > Elan and Biogen Idec’s comprehensive safety evaluation > concerning TYSABRI and any possible link to PML is > ongoing. The companies are reviewing clinical trial > data, working with investigators to evaluate the > approximately 3,000 patients in multiple sclerosis, > Crohn’s disease, and rheumatoid arthritis trials, and > working with PML and neurology experts. The results > of this safety evaluation will be discussed with > regulatory agencies to determine possible re-initiation > of dosing in clinical trials and future commercial > availability. > What I get from all this is that they were testing Tysabri on people with > Crohn’s disease and rheumatoid arthritis … and that the person who died > had been on immunosuppressant drugs some time prior to the Tysabri trials > [although that's not absolutely clear from what's written]. > I don’t think I’m going to be volunteering for clinical trial on this drug > any time soon … > Kathie

Good catch. The article you found provides a much more detailed and plausible explanation. It makes much sense that she was no longer on the immunosuppressant drugs when she began the Tysabri. I guess one question might be, how long had it been between the time she stopped the immunosuppressants and started on the Tysabri? I don’t know how long it takes after stopping some of those drugs before the immune system normalizes. So, whether or not that was a factor in this is probably still not known. Yes, they had been testing Tysabri in both RA and Crohn’s, as well as MS. I understand how you feel about clinical trials following something like this. I’ve been a anxious these past few weeks being a ‘former participant’. While I’m still officially enrolled, obviously they aren’t dispensing the drug anymore, so there is not much going on except observation (just had *another* MRI last Friday). Clearly, I had no idea that the stakes were quite this high when I signed the informed consent form. I figured that if by chance, complications did arise (like infections), they wouldn’t be serious and could be easily dealt with. Then, once the trial was over and everything looked good, this PML business comes out. I’d never even heard of PML before. I think I know more than I care to know now! I think the MS clinicians, especially those who were principal investigators for the trials are stunned. My Dr. (and a principal investigator for the trial) told me last week, that she was very surprised that PML occurred in those patients. She said, that Tysabri only affected about 80% of the lymphocytes trafficking into CSF. Some of the heavier duty MS therapies commonly used, i.e.chemo agents, affect the immune system much more profoundly. I think it’s the unfortunate combination of Tysabri, perhaps Avonex, AND a particular individual’s immune system, that is perhaps compromised in some unknown way, that leads to the high risk of coming down with the PML condition. If Tysabri ever does reappear on the market, it seems to me that they would have to develop a ways to both monitor and screen high risk patients for PML. I have a feeling that will be a tall order. -Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Aleric wrote: >>"Unlike the two MS patients identified in February, who took Tysabri in >>combination with an older Biogen Idec MS drug, Avonex, the third case >>involves a patient who suffered from Crohn’s disease and was taking >>Tysabri alone as part of a different set of Crohn’s clinical trials." > That’s a very good question. I noticed that, also. The Bloomberg.com piece > that Jils posted did not elaborate on what the "immune-suppressing drugs" > were taken for. One might initially assume that it could’ve been for > Crohn’s (an autoimmune condition that involving the inflammation of the > bowels), but it could be for some other condition that wasn’t disclosed. > The article didn’t say. Of course, new drug trial protocols do not > typically allow for the subject to take other drugs for the condition under > study, for obvious reasons. However, I do not know much about that > particular Crohn’s study, or what the protocol was. I suppose it is > possible that the use of other drugs were allowed under certain > circumstances. > "The new case of PML was initially diagnosed as malignant astrocytoma, a > kind of brain cancer. Biogen and Elan said they worked with the clinical > investigator to re-evaluate the case as part of a safety review. The > patient had received eight doses of Tysabri over a period of 18 months, > according to Biogen, and was also being treated with immune-system > suppressing drugs."

I checked it out again … there seems to be conflicting reports. Of course, most of the stuff I read was from the financial pages. Once I had a "well, duh" moment, I went to Elan’s site and found this: As part of this ongoing safety review, the companies, in agreement with the clinical trial investigator, reassessed the case. Following this additional evaluation, the diagnosis is being reassessed as PML. The patient had received 8 doses of TYSABRI over an 18 month period and prior medication history included multiple courses of immunosuppressant agents. Elan and Biogen Idec’s comprehensive safety evaluation concerning TYSABRI and any possible link to PML is ongoing. The companies are reviewing clinical trial data, working with investigators to evaluate the approximately 3,000 patients in multiple sclerosis, Crohn’s disease, and rheumatoid arthritis trials, and working with PML and neurology experts. The results of this safety evaluation will be discussed with regulatory agencies to determine possible re-initiation of dosing in clinical trials and future commercial availability. What I get from all this is that they were testing Tysabri on people with Crohn’s disease and rheumatoid arthritis … and that the person who died had been on immunosuppressant drugs some time prior to the Tysabri trials [although that's not absolutely clear from what's written]. I don’t think I’m going to be volunteering for clinical trial on this drug any time soon … Kathie

Response:

"Bob (Aleric)" wrote in message

news:1112383902.322558.242020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lucy wrote: >> K, I’m scared now, I had one dose of Tysabri in February and I know > the >> chances of developing PML are slim but jeez, i can’t help being > scared, >> should i be taking rebif so soon after my Tysabri infusion?! > gahhh… > I believe they are recommending that you not take any other > immunomodulating MS drug for at least thirty days after stopping > Tysabri treatment, just be on the safe side. > If you haven’t, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. You will be fine. > -Bob

If youre not showing signs of it now, you never will. Its a rare disease. Tysabri must block just enough WBC’s to allow the JC virus to spread enough to take over the CNS. Stopping Tysabri allows, within a month, your WBC’s to once again cross the BBB and take care of business… like eating and digesting JC virus infected braincells. Which is what they normally do and thats how they keep this disease in check. Virtually all of us are infected with the JC virus, but our immune system wins the day and keeps it from causing problems. Appearently Tysabri lowers the amount of WBC’s just enough to let it take over. If you had PML, the incurabe progressive form of the infection, you would have known already. If you dont have it now, youre fine. It seems Tysabri doesnt block immune cells who are targetting myelin, but instead, blocks most, if not all immune cells. (not amount, just type) So its not nearly specific enough. Long ago I proposed creating a drug that blocked immune cells atuned to myelin basic protein from crossing the bbb. I wish they had done that, instead of going for the shotgun approach. It cant be that hard to develop a chemical that latches onto receptor sites of myelin atuned WBC’s making them to large to cross the bbb, or inefective in doing so. Thats where the ultimate treatment lies. PML is when the JC virus invades and uses astrocytes for reproduction. The drug stopped enough immune cells from getting in there and eating those up. Just talking out loud… Rob Rob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Aleric wrote: >>I was thinking about it … weren’t those people diagnosed with PML >>while they were still on Tysabri? Presumably, once the drug leaves one’s >>system, the risk passes … is my logic OK on that? > Yes, that’s my understanding (on both counts). > I understand what you are saying about assessing one’s self. However, my > assessment was corroborated by the EDSS tests they had me perform throughout > the trial. I advanced one full point in the within > the last year. This fact caused me to question my doctor as to whether she > thought that the combination therapy was working for me or not. I also > asked her if she thought that advancing point on the EDSS was ‘acceptable’, > given my age, gender, MS history, the therapy, etc. She said, that > "acceptable" was the wrong word to use and that she didn’t like it. I > probably should have used a different term to describe what I was trying to > say, but I’m pretty sure she knew what I meant. I still can’t express the > thought in a way the describes exactly what I mean. In any case, I really > didn’t get a good answer from her anyway..

Do you mean "typical?" As in, "given all these things, is my condition what you would expect with this new drug?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I had hopes for Tysabri, too … based on anecdotal evidence. It’s >>disappointing … but there are a ton of new things on the horizon. Heck, >>there are 66% more drug therapies now as when I was diagnosed only 5 years >>ago … > That’s true. I was dx 6.5 years ago, so we’ve seen the same advancements as > far as available MS therapies. However, I consider the all of the CRAB > drugs as one therapy. They are all about the same in terms of efficacy, so > the choice really comes down to lifestyle, side-effects, and things like > that. Therefore, the oft-quoted number of MS treatments available today > seems a bit misleading to me. Novantrone is different, but it is only > indicated for patients whose MS is very active or has reached a certain > stage. I know I’m not a candidate for Novantrone at this point, so it’s not > an option. > Tysabri was supposed to be the big step in MS therapy for this decade. I’m > not sure that there will any more before 2010, but I’ve heard of two or > three that might come in before the decade is out (at least they are > scheduled to arrive by then, if they pass the trials, that is!)

Someone posted this a few weeks ago [I think I got it here}: http://tinyurl.com/4o9qc February 10, 2005 Daclizumab shows promise for treatment By NewsRx.com Daclizumab shows promise for the treatment of multiple sclerosis. In a recent study, neurologists in the United States "examined whether treatment with daclizumab, a humanized monoclonal antibody specific for the interleukin-2 receptor alpha chain, was safe and efficacious in relapsing-remitting and secondary progressive multiple sclerosis patients." My doctor didn't know any more than was in the article and thought it would be a fair while before it was generally available. Kathie

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K, I'm scared now, I had one dose of Tysabri in February and I know the chances of developing PML are slim but jeez, i can't help being scared, should i be taking rebif so soon after my Tysabri infusion?! gahhh...

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Lucy wrote: > K, I'm scared now, I had one dose of Tysabri in February and I know the > chances of developing PML are slim but jeez, i can't help being scared, > should i be taking rebif so soon after my Tysabri infusion?!

gahhh... I believe they are recommending that you not take any other immunomodulating MS drug for at least thirty days after stopping Tysabri treatment, just be on the safe side. If you haven't, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. You will be fine. -Bob

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> I was thinking about it ... weren't those people diagnosed with PML > while they were still on Tysabri? Presumably, once the drug leaves one's > system, the risk passes ... is my logic OK on that?

Yes, that's my understanding (on both counts). - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text ->> I will say, that in my case, it really didn't help as much as I had hoped >> it would. I did experience some clinically measured progression during >> that time, so it will interesting to see what the data on progression >> looks like once it is released. So far, the only data they have released >> relates to relapse rates. >> However, my own experience aside, I feel the disappointment many of my >> fellow MSers must feel having Tysabri pulled. I've read many accounts >> where people starting Tysabri noticed improvement right away. So, they >> were very hopeful. But, like most drugs, I think it would help some >> people more than others. I may have been have been one of those >> 'non-responders'. I really don't know. I figure I'd be in the same >> place now if I had just taken the Avonex alone, like I was doing prior to >> the trial. > Yeah ... although I think it's hard for someone to accurately assess > his/her own progress. I'm just thinking about my MD's appointment > yesterday. I'm feeling like I'm getting worse, mainly because I'm not > walking as well. The doctor didn't see anything much he attributed to MS, > but thought that the difficulties in walking were due to arthritis ... my > self-assessment was totally off ...

I understand what you are saying about assessing one's self. However, my assessment was corroborated by the EDSS tests they had me perform throughout the trial. I advanced one full point in the within the last year. This fact caused me to question my doctor as to whether she thought that the combination therapy was working for me or not. I also asked her if she thought that advancing point on the EDSS was 'acceptable', given my age, gender, MS history, the therapy, etc. She said, that "acceptable" was the wrong word to use and that she didn't like it. I probably should have used a different term to describe what I was trying to say, but I'm pretty sure she knew what I meant. I still can't express the thought in a way the describes exactly what I mean. In any case, I really didn't get a good answer from her anyway.. > I had hopes for Tysabri, too ... based on anecdotal evidence. It's > disappointing ... but there are a ton of new things on the horizon. Heck, > there are 66% more drug therapies now as when I was diagnosed only 5 years > ago ...

That's true. I was dx 6.5 years ago, so we've seen the same advancements as far as available MS therapies. However, I consider the all of the CRAB drugs as one therapy. They are all about the same in terms of efficacy, so the choice really comes down to lifestyle, side-effects, and things like that. Therefore, the oft-quoted number of MS treatments available today seems a bit misleading to me. Novantrone is different, but it is only indicated for patients whose MS is very active or has reached a certain stage. I know I'm not a candidate for Novantrone at this point, so it's not an option. Tysabri was supposed to be the big step in MS therapy for this decade. I'm not sure that there will any more before 2010, but I've heard of two or three that might come in before the decade is out (at least they are scheduled to arrive by then, if they pass the trials, that is!) Bob

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Kathie wrote:

"> I am truly sorry to have made that comment. I didn't realize that > you were a participant and I would have been more tactful if I'd stopped > to think that someone might have this kind of concern ... I'm sorry. > Obviously, I didn't think at all ...

No apology necessary! I didn't take any offense or take your comment as insensitive at all! I don't seem much 'worse for the wear' following the combination Tysabri + Avonex treatment for 27 months. I will say, that in my case, it really didn't help as much as I had hoped it would. I did experience some clinically measured progression during that time, so it will interesting to see what the data on progression looks like once it is released. So far, the only data they have released relates to relapse rates. However, my own experience aside, I feel the disappointment many of my fellow MSers must feel having Tysabri pulled. I've read many accounts where people starting Tysabri noticed improvement right away. So, they were very hopeful. But, like most drugs, I think it would help some people more than others. I may have been have been one of those 'non-responders'. I really don't know. I figure I'd be in the same place now if I had just taken the Avonex alone, like I was doing prior to the trial. --Bob

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Aleric wrote: >> I am truly sorry to have made that comment. I didn't realize that >>you were a participant and I would have been more tactful if I'd stopped >>to think that someone might have this kind of concern ... I'm sorry. >>Obviously, I didn't think at all ... > No apology necessary! I didn't take any offense or take your comment as > insensitive at all! > I don't seem much 'worse for the wear' following the combination Tysabri + > Avonex treatment for 27 months.

I was thinking about it ... weren't those people diagnosed with PML while they were still on Tysabri? Presumably, once the drug leaves one's system, the risk passes ... is my logic OK on that? > I will say, that in my case, it really didn't help as much as I had hoped it > would. I did experience some clinically measured progression during that > time, so it will interesting to see what the data on progression looks like > once it is released. So far, the only data they have released relates to > relapse rates. > However, my own experience aside, I feel the disappointment many of my > fellow MSers must feel having Tysabri pulled. I've read many accounts where > people starting Tysabri noticed improvement right away. So, they were very > hopeful. But, like most drugs, I think it would help some people more than > others. I may have been have been one of those 'non-responders'. I really > don't know. I figure I'd be in the same place now if I had just taken the > Avonex alone, like I was doing prior to the trial.

Yeah ... although I think it's hard for someone to accurately assess his/her own progress. I'm just thinking about my MD's appointment yesterday. I'm feeling like I'm getting worse, mainly because I'm not walking as well. The doctor didn't see anything much he attributed to MS, but thought that the difficulties in walking were due to arthritis ... my self-assessment was totally off ... I had hopes for Tysabri, too ... based on anecdotal evidence. It's disappointing ... but there are a ton of new things on the horizon. Heck, there are 66% more drug therapies now as when I was diagnosed only 5 years ago ... KKT

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Aleric wrote: >>PML. The patient had received 8 doses of TYSABRI >>over an 18 month period and prior medication history >>included multiple courses of immunosuppressant agents.

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text ->>What I get from all this is that they were testing Tysabri on people with >>Crohn's disease and rheumatoid arthritis ... and that the person who died >>had been on immunosuppressant drugs some time prior to the Tysabri trials >>[although that's not absolutely clear from what's written]. >>I don’t think I’m going to be volunteering for clinical trial on this drug >>any time soon … > Good catch. The article you found provides a much more detailed and > plausible explanation. It makes much sense that she was no longer on the > immunosuppressant drugs when she began the Tysabri. I guess one question > might be, how long had it been between the time she stopped the > immunosuppressants and started on the Tysabri? I don’t know how long it > takes after stopping some of those drugs before the immune system > normalizes. So, whether or not that was a factor in this is probably still > not known.

Does anyone know? I’m not sure. > Yes, they had been testing Tysabri in both RA and Crohn’s, as well as MS. > I understand how you feel about clinical trials following something like > this. I’ve been a anxious these past few weeks being a ‘former > participant’. While I’m still officially enrolled, obviously they aren’t

I am truly sorry to have made that comment. I didn’t realize that you were a participant and I would have been more tactful if I’d stopped to think that someone might have this kind of concern … I’m sorry. Obviously, I didn’t think at all … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> dispensing the drug anymore, so there is not much going on except > observation (just had *another* MRI last Friday). Clearly, I had no idea > that the stakes were quite this high when I signed the informed consent > form. I figured that if by chance, complications did arise (like > infections), they wouldn’t be serious and could be easily dealt with. > Then, once the trial was over and everything looked good, this PML business > comes out. I’d never even heard of PML before. I think I know more than > I care to know now! > I think the MS clinicians, especially those who were principal investigators > for the trials are stunned. My Dr. (and a principal investigator for the > trial) told me last week, that she was very surprised that PML occurred in > those patients. She said, that Tysabri only affected about 80% of the > lymphocytes trafficking into CSF. Some of the heavier duty MS therapies > commonly used, i.e.chemo agents, affect the immune system much more > profoundly. I think it’s the unfortunate combination of Tysabri, perhaps > Avonex, AND a particular individual’s immune system, that is perhaps > compromised in some unknown way, that leads to the high risk of coming down > with the PML condition. If Tysabri ever does reappear on the market, it > seems to me that they would have to develop a ways to both monitor and > screen high risk patients for PML. I have a feeling that will be a tall > order.

You’re probably right. I’d be surprised to see the drug back on the market until and unless this is understood much better than it is now. Tysbari really seemed to have a very positive effect on some people, and I was truly hoping it would pan out … Kathie

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Duh. I guess I shoould just look it up on the Intenet, but I came here first…. I THINK I heard that they are going to begin dispensing again. OOOHHH I have not been so excited since my first, or was it my second, (NO…It was my first…) date… here is hoping… Eric

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check this: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aNBCb8yf0V7g&refe… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cropsey wrote: > Duh. I guess I shoould just look it up on the Intenet, but I came here > first…. > I THINK I heard that they are going to begin dispensing again. OOOHHH > I have not been so excited since my first, or was it my second, > (NO…It was my first…) date… > here is hoping… > Eric

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Cropsey wrote: > Duh. I guess I shoould just look it up on the Intenet, but I came here > first…. > I THINK I heard that they are going to begin dispensing again. OOOHHH > I have not been so excited since my first, or was it my second, > (NO…It was my first…) date…

sorry, eric, the news you heard seems to indicate it’s LESS likely to go back on the market, rather than more likely. here’s one article (from my local paper) — http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20050331-9999-1b31biogen…. another patient has died; and this person was in the crohn’s disease trials, rather than the M.S. trials, which means s/he was NOT on combo tysabri/avonex treatment, but tysabri alone. biogen’s and elan’s stocks aren’t just IN the toilet, they’re circling on their way down the drain. bright-side it, eric — you won’t have to worry about being diagnosed with something that’s guaranteed to kill you within months, so you’ll be around for the next breakthrough! rose

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> bright-side it, eric — you won’t have to worry about being diagnosed > with something that’s guaranteed to kill you within months, so you’ll > be around for the next breakthrough!

Rose, well-said and good attitude. Keep it up! Mike

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"rose" wrote in message

news:1112285363.637380.206870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cropsey wrote: >> Duh. I guess I shoould just look it up on the Intenet, but I came > here >> first…. >> I THINK I heard that they are going to begin dispensing again. > OOOHHH >> I have not been so excited since my first, or was it my second, >> (NO…It was my first…) date… > sorry, eric, the news you heard seems to indicate it’s LESS likely to > go back on the market, rather than more likely. > here’s one article (from my local paper) — > http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20050331-9999-1b31biogen…. > another patient has died; and this person was in the crohn’s disease > trials, rather than the M.S. trials, which means s/he was NOT on combo > tysabri/avonex treatment, but tysabri alone. biogen’s and elan’s stocks > aren’t just IN the toilet, they’re circling on their way down the > drain. > bright-side it, eric — you won’t have to worry about being diagnosed > with something that’s guaranteed to kill you within months, so you’ll > be around for the next breakthrough! > rose

Additional details on this news: This other patient passed away back in 2003. She was a participant in one of the Crohn’s studies. They thought it was a type brain cancer at the time, but have just recently determined that it was PML. She had had only eight infusions of Tysabri. However, I think the most important thing to point out is that she was also on some other immunosuppressant drug(s) along with the Tysabri. -Bob

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Aleric wrote: > Additional details on this news: This other patient passed away back in > 2003. She was a participant in one of the Crohn’s studies. They thought it > was a type brain cancer at the time, but have just recently determined that > it was PML. She had had only eight infusions of Tysabri. However, I think > the most important thing to point out is that she was also on some other > immunosuppressant drug(s) along with the Tysabri.

Was she on immunosuppressants to combat the Crohn’s [Disclaimer: I know NOTHING about Crohn's]? Because the article specifically says: "Unlike the two MS patients identified in February, who took Tysabri in combination with an older Biogen Idec MS drug, Avonex, the third case involves a patient who suffered from Crohn’s disease and was taking Tysabri alone as part of a different set of Crohn’s clinical trials." KKT

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"KKT" wrote in message

news:424c5c67$1_3@newspeer2.tds.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Aleric wrote: >> Additional details on this news: This other patient passed away back in >> 2003. She was a participant in one of the Crohn’s studies. They thought >> it was a type brain cancer at the time, but have just recently determined >> that it was PML. She had had only eight infusions of Tysabri. However, >> I think the most important thing to point out is that she was also on >> some other immunosuppressant drug(s) along with the Tysabri. > Was she on immunosuppressants to combat the Crohn’s [Disclaimer: I know > NOTHING about Crohn's]? Because the article specifically says: > "Unlike the two MS patients identified in February, who took Tysabri in > combination with an older Biogen Idec MS drug, Avonex, the third case > involves a patient who suffered from Crohn’s disease and was taking > Tysabri alone as part of a different set of Crohn’s clinical trials." > KKT

Hi Kathie. That’s a very good question. I noticed that, also. The Bloomberg.com piece that Jils posted did not elaborate on what the "immune-suppressing drugs" were taken for. One might initially assume that it could’ve been for Crohn’s (an autoimmune condition that involving the inflammation of the bowels), but it could be for some other condition that wasn’t disclosed. The article didn’t say. Of course, new drug trial protocols do not typically allow for the subject to take other drugs for the condition under study, for obvious reasons. However, I do not know much about that particular Crohn’s study, or what the protocol was. I suppose it is possible that the use of other drugs were allowed under certain circumstances. "The new case of PML was initially diagnosed as malignant astrocytoma, a kind of brain cancer. Biogen and Elan said they worked with the clinical investigator to re-evaluate the case as part of a safety review. The patient had received eight doses of Tysabri over a period of 18 months, according to Biogen, and was also being treated with immune-system suppressing drugs." -Bob

Response:

Why is the BBC so anti-suicide?

admin — Wed, 12 May 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m not sure drugged time is much of a gain. Zsarnok – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. This reminds me of a documentorer called, "Doctor Death" if memory serves. The people he put out their mysery were suffering and willing to die. — S You are talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian. And they apparently have chosen to ignore the fact that there is considerable difference between euthanasia to end suffering from a terminal illness and suicide because of depression. A terminal illness which is managed without pain is also rather different from one which isn’t. One of the arguments against the Dutch system, where euthanasia is decriminalised, is that it takes the focus away from palliative care. Jani

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. This reminds me of a documentorer called, "Doctor Death" if memory serves. The people he put out their mysery were suffering and willing to die. — S You are talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian. And they apparently have chosen to ignore the fact that there is considerable difference between euthanasia to end suffering from a terminal illness and suicide because of depression.

Like anything, that depends on circumstances. Are you talking about debilitating depression which is minimally treatable, if at all, and is chronic, or situational depression, which will pass? If there is no reasonable hope to cure or effectively treat your depression, and the depression makes your life a misery, then wouldn’t suicide be reasonable? If you’ve lost your job and your car, well it’s a stupid response. Darwin Award stupid, which may be better for the gene pool. I’m not trying to be harsh or trying to make a joke of it. If you can’t cope, you can’t cope. Is there a moral justification to enforce suffering? If not, then is enforced suffering only prohibited when the pain is physical? Are only the intelligent to be allowed to commit suicide? Zsarnok

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. This reminds me of a documentorer called, "Doctor Death" if memory serves. The people he put out their mysery were suffering and willing to die. — S You are talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian. And they apparently have chosen to ignore the fact that there is considerable difference between euthanasia to end suffering from a terminal illness and suicide because of depression. Zactly. In fact, I agree with the right to choose so much that I’ve made my wishes known- if I were to suffer a severe terminal illness, I do not want to be kept artificially alive either. Since our government thinks we cannot make the decision to end our own suffering for ourselves, I’ve made the second best choice. After watching my friend Judy wither away to an empty, pain filled shell from brain cancer, I made up my mind.

Yeah….. My stepmom in law’s mother died after a several years of steadily degrading health and mental functions; she was a veggie by the end, but the ‘end’ took over a year to finally end. Not wanting to stick my kids in the position my MIL was in, I told the family if I ever get that way, put a goddamn pillow over my face or drug me up a morphine cocktail, SOMEthing! =p – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. This reminds me of a documentorer called, "Doctor Death" if memory serves. The people he put out their mysery were suffering and willing to die. — S You are talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian. And they apparently have chosen to ignore the fact that there is considerable difference between euthanasia to end suffering from a terminal illness and suicide because of depression. A terminal illness which is managed without pain is also rather different from one which isn’t. One of the arguments against the Dutch system, where euthanasia is decriminalised, is that it takes the focus away from palliative care.

And I can see that happening. "Oh, Grammaw’s not gonna get any better, and she DOES have her will in order……" O_O It’s a very slippery topic. I still have to disagree with making criminals of and sending to jail people who were honestly trying to do a kindness. Also, in the shitty US un – healrthcare system, indigent terminally ill people are left to suffer. BUT –That’s a HUGE diff, still, from someone encouraging another to end it all because their lover left them, or their job sucks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jani

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Very simple explanation. In law (in the UK at least), suicide is classed as an unlawful death – i.e. illegal. An institution such as the BBC cannot be seen to not condemn illegal activity. Whoa! That’s crazy. News media is pro-marijuana all the time in Canada. Along with many other illegal activities.

The BBC is not a private company, they get their funding from government via TV license fees that everyone has to pay by law. This setup affects how and what they broadcast, which 95% of the time is excellent, but the news & current affairs programs are always under a spotlight. Also, from a moral point of view, they also tend to go with the status-quo, which is that the ‘perceived majority’ are supposed to frown upon things like suicide. So it’s a political thing. I wish I had an angry face. ;_;

Well, so long as you understand that the BBC news & current affairs stuff is only ’spun’ in that direction for the purposes of appearence, it don’t seem so bad. golwg Matthew

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Very simple explanation. | | In law (in the UK at least), suicide is classed as an unlawful death – i.e. | illegal. | An institution such as the BBC cannot be seen to not condemn illegal | activity. | Also, from a moral point of view, they also tend to go with the status-quo, | which is that the ‘perceived majority’ are supposed to frown upon things | like suicide. | So it’s a political thing. So why do you British allow the Hemlock Society to exist?

The BBC doesn’t run the country. Even when we Brits ‘frown upon’ something, we will still tolerate it’s existence – something to do with our acceptance of freedom of choice and freedom of expression. golwg Matthew

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I had an angry face. ;_; :-/

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Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right.

This reminds me of a documentorer called, "Doctor Death" if memory serves. The people he put out their mysery were suffering and willing to die. — S — I live my life like I play games, I cheat. – Trolls are your enemies, wipe them out. http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/antitrollfaqhtm.htm –

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You are talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very simple explanation. In law (in the UK at least), suicide is classed as an unlawful death – i.e. illegal. An institution such as the BBC cannot be seen to not condemn illegal activity. Whoa! That’s crazy. News media is pro-marijuana all the time in Canada. Along with many other illegal activities. The BBC is not a private company, they get their funding from government via TV license fees that everyone has to pay by law. This setup affects how and what they broadcast, which 95% of the time is excellent, but the news & current affairs programs are always under a spotlight.

The CBC is partially funded by the public too, but it’s not like that at all. In the UK gay marriages are illegal, aren’t they? Does the BBC come out against gay marriages? Also, from a moral point of view, they also tend to go with the status-quo, which is that the ‘perceived majority’ are supposed to frown upon things like suicide. So it’s a political thing. I wish I had an angry face. ;_; Well, so long as you understand that the BBC news & current affairs stuff is only ’spun’ in that direction for the purposes of appearence, it don’t seem so bad.

I thought that they were supposed to be a reputable news source. Now they seem considerably less so.

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I wish I had an angry face. ;_; :-/

That’s a ‘this man has a very crooked penis’ face.

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And they apparently have chosen to ignore the fact that there is considerable difference between euthanasia to end suffering from a terminal illness and suicide because of depression. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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A terminal illness which is managed without pain is also rather different from one which isn’t. One of the arguments against the Dutch system, where euthanasia is decriminalised, is that it takes the focus away from palliative care. Jani

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Zactly. In fact, I agree with the right to choose so much that I’ve made my wishes known- if I were to suffer a severe terminal illness, I do not want to be kept artificially alive either. Since our government thinks we cannot make the decision to end our own suffering for ourselves, I’ve made the second best choice. After watching my friend Judy wither away to an empty, pain filled shell from brain cancer, I made up my mind.

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This reminds me of a documentorer called, "Doctor Death" if memory serves. The people he put out their mysery were suffering and willing to die. — S You are talking about Dr. Jack Kevorkian.

Could be. I forgoet his real name. I recall he finally got arrested. Pity really. BTW, Angie, I’ve made you an appointment for Tuesday at 2:00. Don’t be late

Ww he still operates in prison? good for him. — S — I live my life like I play games, I cheat. – Trolls are your enemies, wipe them out. http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/antitrollfaqhtm.htm –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. While I agree with Euthanasia as a choice for an individual, I find what Nagasiva did, such as wandering into depression groups, and posting to children with problems that can be solved much easier without suicide, not only posting methods, but telling them they should be killing themselves, to be disgusting. He doesn’t stick to the suicidal, he actively tries to convince other people they should kill themselves. I don’t really like Nagasiva, so all’s ok. Just so that suicide is ok if the people actually want it.

And, if they’ve already considered all the other options. If someone is in permanent pain, for example, they might well change their mind about suicide if there was effective pain management available. Jani

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Very simple explanation. In law (in the UK at least), suicide is classed as an unlawful death – i.e. illegal. An institution such as the BBC cannot be seen to not condemn illegal activity. Also, from a moral point of view, they also tend to go with the status-quo, which is that the ‘perceived majority’ are supposed to frown upon things like suicide. So it’s a political thing. golwg Matthew

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. I agree with you almost completely except for these few things: Nagasiva Yronwode helped convince a 16 year old boy, a CHILD, to kill himself. I’m sorry, but that is just sick. I will not mention the sexual part of this regarding Siva out of respect for the boy.

I’ve never considered a 16 year old a child. I find our whole coming of age system to be quite silly in a lot of respects, where rights are staggered for a lot of very strange reasons (apparently voting is more dangerous than sex and driving, in Canada). But we’ve had that talk before. I do believe that people should have the right when to end their life, if they are of sound mind. We do not need psychos like Siva, who are nechrophiliacs, and get sexually excited by death, encouraging people who are not of sound mind, and may be mentally unstable.

As for necrophilia, well, Nagasiva is like a smelly bean fart, so there’s that.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do whatever they want with it. It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. While I agree with Euthanasia as a choice for an individual, I find what Nagasiva did, such as wandering into depression groups, and posting to children with problems that can be solved much easier without suicide, not only posting methods, but telling them they should be killing themselves, to be disgusting. He doesn’t stick to the suicidal, he actively tries to convince other people they should kill themselves.

I don’t really like Nagasiva, so all’s ok. Just so that suicide is ok if the people actually want it.

Response:

Very simple explanation. In law (in the UK at least), suicide is classed as an unlawful death – i.e. illegal. An institution such as the BBC cannot be seen to not condemn illegal activity.

Whoa! That’s crazy. News media is pro-marijuana all the time in Canada. Along with many other illegal activities. Also, from a moral point of view, they also tend to go with the status-quo, which is that the ‘perceived majority’ are supposed to frown upon things like suicide. So it’s a political thing.

I wish I had an angry face. ;_;

Response:

| | Humans aren’t objects. Their lives are their own, and they can do | whatever they want with it. | | It’s a scary state of affairs when a supposedly reputable news sources | publishes an article that cites a researcher who calls someone a | psychopath for being in favour of euthanasia. | | I mean, I agree that Tyaginator is moron and a crazy (like from | Gymkata), but thinking that people should be able to end their own lives | isn’t very silly. Especially since without tips, they’ll probably end | up trying and failing numerous times before getting it right. | | | I agree with you almost completely except for these few things: | | Nagasiva Yronwode helped convince a 16 year old boy, a CHILD, to kill himself. | I’m sorry, but that is just sick. I will not mention the sexual part of this | regarding Siva out of respect for the boy. | | I do believe that people should have the right when to end their life, if they | are of sound mind. We do not need psychos like Siva, who are nechrophiliacs, | and get sexually excited by death, encouraging people who are not of sound | mind, and may be mentally unstable. Make you want to jump off a bridge, doesn’t it Angela? — Talesin- The Bad Boy of Witchcraft ™ Legalize Freedom http://home.kc.rr.com/pendragonsloft

Thanks for Participating in 24 hours of Magick

admin — Thu, 06 May 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As long as you trust those who handle your trust, then no worries. If you get funds from a trust then you are already involved with estate planning and whatnot. (‘whatnot’ is still cute) Probably, but it’s not something I readily concern myself with or know anything about. Learning about law on your own is very difficult in some cases. If you spend it, you have some concern with it. Willful ignorance wasn’t something I thought you practiced. I don’t spend it. Argh! Go ahead and answer the comment and ignore the question, I’ll just hold any questions for a while.

Willful ignorance happens every time I chose one book over another, and every second that I choose to post to usenet rather than do something else. There’s no escaping it. Now, since it doesn’t effect me in the immediate sense, and since I have no idea where to start looking for information, it’s really not of importance to me.

Response:

Willful ignorance is not the same as choosing between options. Zsarnok – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As long as you trust those who handle your trust, then no worries. If you get funds from a trust then you are already involved with estate planning and whatnot. (‘whatnot’ is still cute) Probably, but it’s not something I readily concern myself with or know anything about. Learning about law on your own is very difficult in some cases. If you spend it, you have some concern with it. Willful ignorance wasn’t something I thought you practiced. I don’t spend it. Argh! Go ahead and answer the comment and ignore the question, I’ll just hold any questions for a while. Willful ignorance happens every time I chose one book over another, and every second that I choose to post to usenet rather than do something else. There’s no escaping it. Now, since it doesn’t effect me in the immediate sense, and since I have no idea where to start looking for information, it’s really not of importance to me.

Response:

Argh! Go ahead and answer the comment and ignore the question, I’ll just hold any questions for a while. True, filing with Probate Court isn’t an everyday occurance for most people. It is not something unusual though. For lawyers who do deal with estate planning, it may be everyday. Anyhow, I like sharks. They have a touch of elegance. Itachi’s partner is a shark style ninja. Shark style ninja?????? Do you mean it’s drawn that way? (Consider it a freebe.) Yes, he’s drawn that way. Gills and whatnot, even.

A whatnot even, eh. Didn’t know they could show that. Zsarnok

Response:

I don’t spend it. True, filing with Probate Court isn’t an everyday occurance for most people. It is not something unusual though. For lawyers who do deal with estate planning, it may be everyday. Anyhow, I like sharks. They have a touch of elegance. Itachi’s partner is a shark style ninja. Shark style ninja?????? Do you mean it’s drawn that way? (Consider it a freebe.)

Yes, he’s drawn that way. Gills and whatnot, even.

Response:

As long as you trust those who handle your trust, then no worries. If you get funds from a trust then you are already involved with estate planning and whatnot. (‘whatnot’ is still cute) Probably, but it’s not something I readily concern myself with or know anything about. Learning about law on your own is very difficult in some cases.

If you spend it, you have some concern with it. Willful ignorance wasn’t something I thought you practiced. True, filing with Probate Court isn’t an everyday occurance for most people. It is not something unusual though. For lawyers who do deal with estate planning, it may be everyday. Anyhow, I like sharks. They have a touch of elegance. Itachi’s partner is a shark style ninja.

Shark style ninja?????? Do you mean it’s drawn that way? (Consider it a freebe.) Zsarnok – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was joking about having to do something like that as if it were an everyday thing. No, I haven’t done what you said. I don’t even know what you said. I don’t really care about wills, since I’m too young to really bother with estate planning and whatnot. Not to be mean, but is your family dropping like flies? Zsarnok Yes, several times. Daily. Ever have one file with Probate Court using the wrong will? Zsarnok Well, Americans do seem to insult lawyers a lot… There was a thread on ACC a few weeks back, when someone claimed a "healing miracle" and was asked to provide proof (with whatever privacy constraints and disclaimers necessary, since there was no need to reveal specific PI on the group). Rather than do so, and open up a very serious debate with a committed atheist about the issues you raise, this woman retreated into squalling that "real christians" would believe her anyway, without all these silly demands for proof. Funnily enough, she says she works in the legal profession, but every time she’s asked for any kind of evidence (even something as minor as a google ref to a post) she goes off into a hissy-fit and refuses to produce it. Is this common practice, amongst legal secretaries in the US? "I’m not going to look for the case file, you have to believe me" would be considered a somewhat unprofessional attitude, here …. Jani Did I say I cured anything?…you sad fucking ball of playdough. Actually, I’m glad you brought this up, since its an interesting thing, and no one has touched on it. My friend , a very strong woman, worked everyday with "headaches" and some of her vision occluded by…what sounded like migraine auras….she functioned normally. She went to the optometrist in the middle of March, and he told her that she had lost an appreciable part of her vision in both eyes…amazing how much we compensate. She had an MRI 2 days later and they found 10 brain tumor lesions…that’s right, fucking ten brain tumors. 3 days later she started to hallucinate, was unresponsive, and rushed to the emergency room. She was given 3 weeks to live. She spent 2 weeks in the hospital, received radiation on her brain, had 3 biopsies on her lung ( where they had found a spot), which collapsed her lung. She soldiered through. Her Chemo starts tomorrow. A month ago, when she left the hospital, they told her that they were surprised that she could walk or speak, and that "her brain should be mush". So now we can ask ourselves…why this miracle? ( so far) Is there a life span ordained by whatever fates or powers that be? Is it the strength of her spirit and her willingness not to give up? Is it the magic and the prayers that she has received from dozens of people? Is it the fact that she has so many friends and they have all pulled together at this time? Is it because she has a rock solid religious faith? Is it because of all of these things? WHAT is god? Is it a what? What is it? BTW she has now been determined to have 12 separate brain tumors. Her lungs, which have received no treatment, now show shrunken spots. Is it the prayer? the magic? Is there a difference? What can the mind do? What is reality? These are the questions you should be debating and exploring, not whether cancer can be cured by myself, something that I never claimed, btw. You should fall on your flabby knees with humility in the face of the unknowable, that at least would show some wisdom on your part. Pip I see skies of blue clouds of white the bright blessed day and the dark sacred night and I think to myself What A Wonderful World —- Louis Armstrong Thanks Cal. My friend who has lung and brain cancer is doing phenomenally well. She’s gone from a 3 week life span, to an indefinite one. Ha ha ha! The old drunk had to come begging me to save her kid from the migraine shez gave her and now she is "curing brain cancer" — Talesin- The Bad Boy of Witchcraft ™ Legalize Freedom http://home.kc.rr.com/pendragonsloft

THE LOST VIDEO OF BENNY HINN

admin — Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Then i hope the Presbyterians, Episcopals, Pentecostals, Baptists and other Christians to whom you have posted realize now what a demonized, Satan-following snake you are, since not only are the PENTECOSTALS a bunch of hertics, but in your book THEY ALL ARE AS WELL!

Can Mrs. Easter Benny lay Eggs? Yes, I have seen this video of Suzanne Hinn the wife of Benny Hinn, what a disgrace for Christianity! Until I actually saw the video clip no way I would have believed that Suzanne Hinn, who is the wife of a so called "Christian" Minister, could actually utter such nauseating words. This happened in her husband’s home church the Orlando Christian Center in front of thousands of mystified followers and the television cameras. Suzanne Hinn, during this highly anointed service, entirely under the influence of Benny Hinn’s controversial Anointing, uttered many words of disgrace. Without shame or restraint, Suzanne Hinn did let the whole anointed beast took over her soul and body. To the dismay of the audience an extremely horrible and shocking homily was heard. Since that ill-famed day, this anointed phrase is forever memorialized in the annals of infamy of the Apostate Church: "If your engines aren’t revved up, then what you need is a holy ghost Enema right up your rear end!" -Suzanne Hinn Click on the link below if you have Windows Media you shall be able to listen to the audio file: http://www.balaams-ass.com/sounds/hinnwife.wav This incident clearly revealed the scandalous and impious nature of Benny Hinn’s Anointing. The whole incident was so damaging for Hinn’s Ministry that his lawyers wrote a letter pressuring Comedy Central and charging them to stop showing the scandalous video. I am now addressing the followers of Benny Hinn who are actually having an anointed fit, would you allow me just one question? Since you are claiming that Benny Hinn’s anointing is the Holy Spirit of God could you please justify why human lawyers were required for damage control in an desperate attempt to cover-up what this anointing supposedly from God has inspired to Suzanne Hinn? At the end of the video clip Suzanne Hinn is seen wildly screaming, making weird gestures and uttering an unintellible credo. Charging back and forth across the podium like a possessed Bull, she finally did an anointed slide and slowly stopped on her belly…Comedy Central has now removed the video clip from their site. I have searched the net, I could not find any other web sites featuring that clip, may be because of existing copy rights. On the other hand you can still read the following articles written by Christians who were shocked by the litigious behavior of Suzanne Hinn:

Response:

Are you as sure about all this as you are that churches which celebrate easter today are pagan?

Response:

Are you as sure about all this as you are that churches which celebrate easter today are pagan?

Easter Benny is so sure of his power and anointed reputation that he does not hide his Graveyard’s adventures. While others are doing their best to hide the truth, he did confess that he trembled visiting sepulchers. To feel the anointing from the carcasses of well known dead celebrities, he has organized private anointed tours for selective groups of Christians. Walls have been built around these tombs to prevent unwanted eyes from having a glimpse of this anointed worship. Not every one can enter these tombs, this is very secluded and very few people actually have access to the keys. The ritual in the Graveyards of Louisiana is called voodoo, how would you label the anointed trances of Benny Hinn in Forest Lawn Cemetery California? "One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was] visiting Aimee’s tomb in California. This Thursday I’m on TBN. Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I’ve been there once already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects ‘ cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that grave, uh, where she’s buried is closed, they built walls around it. You can’t get in without a key and I’m one of the very few people who can get in. But I’ll never forget when I saw Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredibly dramatic. She was such a lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As-as incredible as it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there. I actually, I-I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over. God’s power came all over me. .. I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. I know this may be shocking to you. … And I’m going to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl [Palmquist] this week. They’re gonna come with me. You-you-you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredible. And Kathryn’s. It’s amazing. I’ve heard of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were totally healed by God’s power. You say, ‘What a crazy thing.’ Brother, there’s things we’ll never understand. Are you all hearing me?" http://www.letusreason.org/Popteach.htm http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com http://www.bible.ca/tongues-audio-video-documentation.htm http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/7192/page4.html

Response:

Yes, David Matthieu is a snake. A perverter of Scripture and a heretic who believes the Baptists and every other orthodox Christian group he’s been posting to are all really heretics and pagans because they celebrate Easter. One wonders, then, what his point has been all these times when he’s posted his anti-Charismatic ramblings to orthodox Christian groups over the years. Since he labels them as pagans along with the Charismatics, it seems as if his ONLY real purpose was to spread discord since he doesn’t think ANY orthodox Christian denominations are of God. He must also deny the Trinity since the same "pagans" who embraced the worship of Tammuz and Ishtar in celibrating easter also believed God is three-in-one. So are Trinitarians also pagans, david? See, that’s the thing with cultists like Matthieu: sooner or later they let slip their own abominations while examining the dirty laundry of other people, and now he’s done it. He could have continued to hide his own heresies if he’d limited his musings to attacking guys like Benny Hinn. Problem is, he got careless and let slip his own actual theology which revealed what he actually is. Now we can see he’s apparently a follower of Herbert W Armstrong. Or is it Pastor Arnold Murry, David?

Response:

are you as sure about this as you are that the Presbyterians, Episcopals, Pentecostals and other Christians in the newsgroups you posted this to are pagan and under the spirit of Antichrist, for celebrating easter, David?

Response:

Yes, I have seen this video of Suzanne Hinn the wife of Benny Hinn, what a disgrace for Christianity! Until I actually saw the video clip no way I would have believed that Suzanne Hinn, who is the wife of a so called "Christian" Minister, could actually utter such nauseating words. This happened in her husband’s home church the Orlando Christian Center in front of thousands of mystified followers and the television cameras. Suzanne Hinn, during this highly anointed service, entirely under the influence of Benny Hinn’s controversial Anointing, uttered many words of disgrace. Without shame or restraint, Suzanne Hinn did let the whole anointed beast took over her soul and body. To the dismay of the audience an extremely horrible and shocking homily was heard. Since that ill-famed day, this anointed phrase is forever memorialized in the annals of infamy of the Apostate Church: "If your engines aren’t revved up, then what you need is a holy ghost Enema right up your rear end!" -Suzanne Hinn Click on the link below if you have Windows Media you shall be able to listen to the audio file: http://www.balaams-ass.com/sounds/hinnwife.wav This incident clearly revealed the scandalous and impious nature of Benny Hinn’s Anointing. The whole incident was so damaging for Hinn’s Ministry that his lawyers wrote a letter pressuring Comedy Central and charging them to stop showing the scandalous video. I am now addressing the followers of Benny Hinn who are actually having an anointed fit, would you allow me just one question? Since you are claiming that Benny Hinn’s anointing is the Holy Spirit of God could you please justify why human lawyers were required for damage control in an desperate attempt to cover-up what this anointing supposedly from God has inspired to Suzanne Hinn? At the end of the video clip Suzanne Hinn is seen wildly screaming, making weird gestures and uttering an unintellible credo. Charging back and forth across the podium like a possessed Bull, she finally did an anointed slide and slowly stopped on her belly…Comedy Central has now removed the video clip from their site. I have searched the net, I could not find any other web sites featuring that clip, may be because of existing copy rights. On the other hand you can still read the following articles written by Christians who were shocked by the litigious behavior of Suzanne Hinn:

Response:

"I was in Ghana just recently — we had half a million people show up — and a man was raised from the dead on the platform. That’s a fact, people. A man was raised from the dead on the platform. We have it on video". Many Christians have seen with their mortal eyes not this legendary video, but only a persuasive Benny Hinn announcing on Trinity Broadcasting Network that he had raised a dead man. The Bible reported that Lazarus after being resurrected by Christ became famous and because of him many of the Jews believed on Jesus. When the Lord came to Bethany many people came not for Jesus’ sake only but also to see Lazarus. It is odd that no Christians ever went to Ghana to see the man Benny Hinn claims he had resurrected from the dead. Amazingly Benny Hinn himself who supposedly had brought this man back to life does not even know his name or address. It is more than strange that no News Agency ever reported this exceptional miracle, furthermore no reporters ever interviewed this unknown man raised from the dead. We know how all the anointed services of Benny Hinn are televised with a crew of cameramen trained to carefully record on tape the least motions of this so called man of miracles. Plus Benny Hinn said, "we have it on Video", it is very bizarre that they have not been able to play this extraordinary video. Even with the impossibility for Benny Hinn to prove the existence of such a video, would I dare suggest that this "eminent" man is lying? Besides the renown of his team of lawyers, there is a multitude of followers, bewitched by Benny Hinn supernatural powers, who would be very infuriated by such declaration. So I am obligated to ask them, if I should consider the eventuality that Satan himself manifested on Benny Hinn stage in Ghana to delete or steal the video? Very puzzled by the unexplained disappearance of this priceless video from the face of the visible world, I started my own examination of the facts. With the numerous cases of resurrection reported in the New Testament, I was contemplating the probability that a dead man was brought to his Crusade by some followers believing that Benny Hinn could raise the dead. Then I came across the disturbing Information that there have been at least five dead bodies at the Crusades of Benny Hinn. These dead bodies were not brought to Benny Hinn, all five were living and breathing persons who came alive to his Crusades and passed away. On November 20, 1991 a 24 years old woman died at the Anaheim Convention Center at a faith healing revival of Benny Hinn. According to the Orlando Sentinel her parents brought her to Benny Hinn’s Miracle Invasion Crusade in hope of healing. She died just before the healing service started allegedly of a brain cancer. No body ever asked what caused her to precisely die at the Crusade? To read the article of the Orlando Sentinel, search for Benny Hinn and make sure the search is by the year 1991 in the Archives section of : http://www.orlandosentinel.com/ The name of this Orlando Sentinel’s article is "SPIRITUAL HEALING COMES TOO LATE FOR CANCER VICTIM". So far his Crusade in Kenya has broken the record of dead bodies. In spite of all the "Miracles" and "Signs" that Benny Hinn claims he can perform, the news agency Reuters reported that four living believers managed to die at this Crusade. Looking for healing, all four had left alive a local hospital to come to Benny Hinn, and they end up dying at his Crusade. Ten healthy persons, trying to better see Benny Hinn’s "Miracles", fell from the trees and received serious injuries such as broken Jaws. http://www.pfo.org/four-die.htm The list of death cases does not stop here, John Mac Arthur Jr. in the Charismatic Chaos, reported that an elderly Woman died from complications after a believer ’slain in the Spirit ‘by Benny Hinn fell on her and broke her hip. The same incident was also reported by the National & International Religion Report, dated Sept 21, 1987. The family of the deceased woman had filed a multi million dollars lawsuit against Benny Hinn, but both parties agreed to settle the lawsuit out of court. In 1993 a man suffering with cancer attended the Crusade of Basel, Switzerland, Benny Hinn prophesied over the man that he had many years to live, however the man died two days later. During another crusade in South Africa a man collapsed, soon after Hinn claimed the Lord told him the man would be fine he died in the ambulance. We cannot know for sure the number of people who died during all the Benny Hinn’s Crusades and Church Services. The number of fatalities and casualties reported above should be sufficient for the authorities to ask Benny Hinn to put signs to warn his followers that it is extremely dangerous for sick persons to leave the care of their doctors to come to his so called Miracle Crusades where they could face death. By a simple gesture Benny Hinn frequently forces, with the power of his Anointing, rows of believers to fall backward; can a Person already weaken by diseases withstand the forceful assault of these spirits? Signs should also be posted for parents to warn them that their sick children may not outlive the attacks of spiritual hordes rushing out during these Crusades. Usually the believers start shaking under the power of these mystical entities violently manifesting even way before Benny Hinn comes to carry out his invocations. Can you imagine what this strange anointing can do to a four months old baby like Clondin Adhiambo who was rushed out of the Kenya Crusade and died before reaching the Hospital? What about the thirteen years old girl with an heart complaint who also died at the same crusade, we do not know for how long she has been exposed to these powerful manifestations, but was she strong enough to survive the spiritual aggression of Benny Hinn’s Anointing? http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNation/02052000/News/News45.html This is your Day, in the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth you can work a true Miracle by sending this article to a fellow Christian. You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/7192/page4.html

Response:

One quality you find most appealing about yourself

admin — Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Animeg3282 wrote in message

news:20040411223037.23150.00000203@mb-m22.aol.com… > dudenephxx said

That’s the way to spell dood’s name,G xy = male xx = female > > Dont worry you wont get laid even if you got drunk…just kidding !!!!!! > >*runs and hides* > F you! Actually getting drunk is very dangerous for me. The more I drink, the > sleepier I get, which is very dangerous.

Never mind Dood. (S)he comes from a canid descend. Dood’s a bitch. He was born like that.

Response:

"Insert Pseudonym Here" wrote in message news:Xns94C9D23BC8A59iphiphfakeaddrcom@68.12.19.6… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "fallout" wrote in > news:9DBec.120697$w54.841658@attbi_s01: > > "Insert Pseudonym Here" wrote in message > > news:Xns94C8EE808FFEDiphiphfakeaddrcom@68.12.19.6… > >> fra…@grex.org (franco) wrote in > >> news:c5cggk$6d58$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de: > >> > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his > >> > best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you > >> > really like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate > >> > yourself and think you are worthless scum. > >> > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of > >> > knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a > >> > better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in > >> > use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best > >> > quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself > >> > is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome > >> > face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the > >> > one quality you find most appealing about yourself? > >> I don’t really like answering these kinds of questions, because then > >> people assume I must be some kind of demigod in that area. If I say > >> I most admire my intelligence, people expect that I’m finishing up my > >> post- doc paper on the skin-patch cure for brain cancer or something. > >> If I say I most admire my ambition, they start asking which of my > >> ocean-front properties I spend the most time in. > >> That’s an overstatement, of course, but it feels that way. People > >> hate to see others proud of themselves, and love to see people fall > >> from grace, if only to punch your shoulder as if to convince you > >> they’re laughing WITH you. > > All that said, when can we expect that skin patch? :-) > February 3rd, 2051. Seriously.

Hmm, i’ll be 99. i kind of doubt that i’ll be here to see it but i hope it goes well and you make billions and billions of dollars from it.

Response:

"Victor" wrote in message

news:407a7998@news.comindico.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his best > > quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really like and > > admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and think you are > > worthless scum. > > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge > (but > > one can never have enough) to enable me to become a better person, > socially and > > otherwise. I already put a lot of it in use but more is needed of course. > > Maybe that’s not the best quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire > most > > about myself is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my > handsome > > face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. > > So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself? > Well, I’m dumb as a rock and ugly as a turd so it’s not those things. > I guess I’m nicer than the majority. That’s a good quality, I guess.

That’s a great quality Victor and rarer than high intelligence. tom

Response:

dudenephx1…@aol.com (DudeNEPhx1971) wrote in news:20040412003630.12632.00000144@mb-m26.aol.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his >>> best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you >>> really like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate >>> yourself and think you are worthless scum. >>> What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of >>> knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a >>> better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in >>> use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best quality, >>> maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself is my >>> charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome face >>> etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the one >>> quality you find most appealing about yourself? >>I don’t really like answering these kinds of questions, because then >>people assume I must be some kind of demigod in that area. If I say I >>most admire my intelligence, people expect that I’m finishing up my >>post- doc paper on the skin-patch cure for brain cancer or something. >>If I say I most admire my ambition, they start asking which of my >>ocean-front properties I spend the most time in. >>That’s an overstatement, of course, but it feels that way. People >>hate to see others proud of themselves, and love to see people fall >>from grace, if only to punch your shoulder as if to convince you >>they’re laughing WITH you. > In short….your most appealing quality is fear of telling what you > find most > appealing about yourself ?

If you say so, Big Boy. *wink!*

Response:

"fallout" wrote in news:9DBec.120697$w54.841658@attbi_s01: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Insert Pseudonym Here" wrote in message > news:Xns94C8EE808FFEDiphiphfakeaddrcom@68.12.19.6… >> fra…@grex.org (franco) wrote in >> news:c5cggk$6d58$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de: >> > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his >> > best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you >> > really like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate >> > yourself and think you are worthless scum. >> > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of >> > knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a >> > better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in >> > use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best >> > quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself >> > is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome >> > face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the >> > one quality you find most appealing about yourself? >> I don’t really like answering these kinds of questions, because then >> people assume I must be some kind of demigod in that area. If I say >> I most admire my intelligence, people expect that I’m finishing up my >> post- doc paper on the skin-patch cure for brain cancer or something. >> If I say I most admire my ambition, they start asking which of my >> ocean-front properties I spend the most time in. >> That’s an overstatement, of course, but it feels that way. People >> hate to see others proud of themselves, and love to see people fall >> from grace, if only to punch your shoulder as if to convince you >> they’re laughing WITH you. > All that said, when can we expect that skin patch? :-)

February 3rd, 2051. Seriously. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> tom

Response:

fra…@grex.org (franco) wrote in message … > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his best > quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really like and > admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and think you are > worthless scum. > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge (but > one can never have enough) to enable me to become a better person, socially and > otherwise. I already put a lot of it in use but more is needed of course. > Maybe that’s not the best quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most > about myself is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome > face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. > So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

I’d say curiosity or thirst for knowledge. I like the fact that i can still get interested in things that have no practical imediate purpose, just out of curiosity.

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>> dudenephxx said

And the Spelling Queen Bee says…. >That’s the way to spell dood’s name,G >xy = male >xx = female

lol >> > Dont worry you wont get laid even if you got drunk…just kidding >!!!!!! >> >*runs and hides* >> F you! Actually getting drunk is very dangerous for me. The more I drink, >the >> sleepier I get, which is very dangerous. >Never mind Dood. (S)he comes from a canid descend. Dood’s a bitch. He was >born like that.

Thanks. Then its not my fault. Didnt the doctor bitch slap your mom after you were born…:)

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 In article franco wrote: >So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

Hmm, hard question. Can one claim "X is the quality I find most appealing about myself" when even the claim that one has quality X at all is demonstrably (or so it sometimes feels) false? Another weird thing: people admiring you for quality Y, stating jealousy for it, but one would give a kingdom to trade it for quality X? People regularly accuse me of being intelligent, rational, calm and collected, able to see throught he fog of emotion. (I beg to differ on some of those.) I’d happily trade those down to "average" in exchange for some more gregariousness, geniality (as in, a genial host) and an ability to make people feel like I understand them (which I often do, I just can’t seem to express it much). What I do like about me is the capacity for empathy (with the proviso that I can’t seem to express it very well) and a willingness to let people prove themselves as not-bad. (Example: I’m perfectly willing to consider the possibility that somewhere, there still is a decent person underneath the Darkfalz persona, even when almost all others here have given up hope and will *never* let him confine his misogyny to the past.) I also like that (in the past, at least, younger and more idealistic) I am able to put something of mine on the line to help other people in need. (But as I age, the required direness of the need gets higher.) – — http://voyager.abite.co.za/~berndj/ (up again for now – yay!) "IBM has more patent litigation lawyers than SCO has employees." – unknown —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFAe7Wd/FmLrNfLpjMRAgu7AJ9D2VsEr0riECiBeSzsGGZlh1B33gCcD1Lt Y8nK2eDA6k+w2pi1RReXrIw= =QQCW —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

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"Insert Pseudonym Here" wrote in message news:Xns94C8EE808FFEDiphiphfakeaddrcom@68.12.19.6… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> fra…@grex.org (franco) wrote in > news:c5cggk$6d58$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de: > > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his > > best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really > > like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and > > think you are worthless scum. > > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of > > knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a > > better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in > > use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best quality, > > maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself is my > > charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome face etc.’ > > But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the one quality you > > find most appealing about yourself? > I don’t really like answering these kinds of questions, because then > people assume I must be some kind of demigod in that area. If I say I > most admire my intelligence, people expect that I’m finishing up my post- > doc paper on the skin-patch cure for brain cancer or something. If I say > I most admire my ambition, they start asking which of my ocean-front > properties I spend the most time in. > That’s an overstatement, of course, but it feels that way. People hate > to see others proud of themselves, and love to see people fall from > grace, if only to punch your shoulder as if to convince you they’re > laughing WITH you.

All that said, when can we expect that skin patch? :-) tom

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Intelligence, maybe — although I haven’t been particularly good at applying my "book smarts" to my own life. I can do ‘local logical manipulations’ but the bigger picture sometimes escapes me.

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> In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his best > quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really like and > admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and think you are > worthless scum. > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge (but > one can never have enough) to enable me to become a better person, socially and > otherwise. I already put a lot of it in use but more is needed of course. > Maybe that’s not the best quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most > about myself is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome > face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. > So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

Well, I’m dumb as a rock and ugly as a turd so it’s not those things. I guess I’m nicer than the majority. That’s a good quality, I guess.

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On 12 Apr 2004 03:15:18 GMT, kitzneg…@aol.com (kitznegari thinks it has wings) wrote: >>So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself? >i’m like thidwick, the big-hearted moose or sam from lord of the rings… i’m a >bit dim and am glunky as hell, but i’ve got a big heart that only wants to do >the right thing. >for example… i managed to piss off my entire family yesterday because (long >story short, of course) i wouldn’t let my dad intentionally drown 5 kittens >that he found in his barn. those kittens are now in my livingroom waiting for >the aspca to open tommorrow. >if i had to be a fictional character i would play ed norton’s role in "death to >smoochy", i think. that is beauty.

Great flick, that one. He’s one of my faves these days. Really good actor. Innocent look with violence just under the surface. Plus he’s a local boy, gotta love that. lm

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fra…@grex.org (franco) wrote in news:c5cggk$6d58$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de: > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his > best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really > like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and > think you are worthless scum. > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of > knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a > better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in > use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best quality, > maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself is my > charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome face etc.’ > But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the one quality you > find most appealing about yourself?

I don’t really like answering these kinds of questions, because then people assume I must be some kind of demigod in that area. If I say I most admire my intelligence, people expect that I’m finishing up my post- doc paper on the skin-patch cure for brain cancer or something. If I say I most admire my ambition, they start asking which of my ocean-front properties I spend the most time in. That’s an overstatement, of course, but it feels that way. People hate to see others proud of themselves, and love to see people fall from grace, if only to punch your shoulder as if to convince you they’re laughing WITH you.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his >> best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really >> like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and >> think you are worthless scum. >> What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of >> knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a >> better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in >> use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best quality, >> maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself is my >> charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome face etc.’ >> But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the one quality you >> find most appealing about yourself? >I don’t really like answering these kinds of questions, because then >people assume I must be some kind of demigod in that area. If I say I >most admire my intelligence, people expect that I’m finishing up my post- >doc paper on the skin-patch cure for brain cancer or something. If I say >I most admire my ambition, they start asking which of my ocean-front >properties I spend the most time in. >That’s an overstatement, of course, but it feels that way. People hate >to see others proud of themselves, and love to see people fall from >grace, if only to punch your shoulder as if to convince you they’re >laughing WITH you.

In short….your most appealing quality is fear of telling what you find most appealing about yourself ?

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> So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

My independence. –Celebok http://home.earthlink.net/~celebok

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Does intelligence really count as a "quality"? All thoughts about myself are soo warped that I don’t think if I had a good quality I can notice it.

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"franco" wrote in message

news:c5cggk$6d58$1@ID-152646.news.uni-berlin.de… > In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his best > quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really like and > admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and think you are > worthless scum. > What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge (but > one can never have enough) to enable me to become a better person, socially and > otherwise. I already put a lot of it in use but more is needed of course. > Maybe that’s not the best quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most > about myself is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome > face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. > So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

I have sat here for ten minutes trying to figure out my best quality. I would say intelligence but when I look back on my life it seems I have made more bad decisions then good ones. I would say open-mindedness but I grow increasingly more jaded. I would say empathy but I have been more apathetic then otherwise. I can’t say patience since my job of tech support seems to find those limits quickly. Really it’s hard to tell. As much as I hate the plebian/patrician relations of society I definitely feel lower class both financially and "lot" in life.

Response:

In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his best quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really like and admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and think you are worthless scum. What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge (but one can never have enough) to enable me to become a better person, socially and otherwise. I already put a lot of it in use but more is needed of course. Maybe that’s not the best quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most about myself is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

Response:

On 11 Apr 2004 22:23:16 GMT, fra…@grex.org (franco) wrote: >In a psychology training (self-esteem) they ask one to describe his best >quality. Sometimes it’s really hard to find something you really like and >admire about yourself, especially if you hate yourself and think you are >worthless scum. >What I admire most about myself: My knowledge. I have a lot of knowledge (but >one can never have enough) to enable me to become a better person, socially and >otherwise. I already put a lot of it in use but more is needed of course. >Maybe that’s not the best quality, maybe I should have said ‘what I admire most >about myself is my charismatic personality or my very high IQ, or my handsome >face etc.’ But I don’t find those qualities in me. >So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

That’s easy: My intelligence. It has always been the thing I have been most proud of. I’d feel a lot worse if I thought people viewed me as unintelligent than I would if I thought they viewed me as boring, unattractive, etc. — RK

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Good sense. You’ll never find me bowing down to some New Age bullshit technician based on nothing more than a fancy type face. Also, you won’t find me spending $10,000 on credit for fancy anime. Nor will I get drunk at parties. — http://www.casssowarybuttons.com <— Buttons for everyone. My blogs: http://buttonmakersball.blogspot.com <–button making http://animeg.blogspot.com <–rants on everything

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>Nor will I get drunk at parties.

Dont worry you wont get laid even if you got drunk…just kidding !!!!!! *runs and hides*

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"franco" wrote in message

I too would say knowledge at this point. Some runners up I suppose might be analytical ability and ability to write articulately.

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dudenephxx said > Dont worry you wont get laid even if you got drunk…just kidding !!!!!! >*runs and hides*

F you! Actually getting drunk is very dangerous for me. The more I drink, the sleepier I get, which is very dangerous. — http://www.casssowarybuttons.com <— Buttons for everyone. My blogs: http://buttonmakersball.blogspot.com <–button making http://animeg.blogspot.com <–rants on everything

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positive attitude.

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>So what is the one quality you find most appealing about yourself?

i’m like thidwick, the big-hearted moose or sam from lord of the rings… i’m a bit dim and am glunky as hell, but i’ve got a big heart that only wants to do the right thing. for example… i managed to piss off my entire family yesterday because (long story short, of course) i wouldn’t let my dad intentionally drown 5 kittens that he found in his barn. those kittens are now in my livingroom waiting for the aspca to open tommorrow. if i had to be a fictional character i would play ed norton’s role in "death to smoochy", i think. that is beauty. – k i t z – i will take you to the oracle, but first i must aporogize. http://spinning_plates.tripod.com http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari

Response:

Affection

admin — Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"duck" wrote in message

news:UsZT7.33858$4e3.4276943@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "TigerLily" wrote in message > news:9vpl7f$gdjus$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > > Michelle, I’m sure you’d be welcome, why in the world wouldn’t you be? > Or > > you could always email him, it’s a lot cheaper. However, early Thursday > he > > leaves for Boston, to spend the holidays with his friend who has brain > > cancer. Said friend’s tumor is shrinking now by the way, he just told me > > today, and he sounds like a huge weight has been lifted from him, which of > > course it has. So yes, he’s ok, feeling very good right now in fact. > I am so glad he is OK, I was getting more and more worried about him. > The last e-mail I sent him Lily bounced back, but not in the normal way, > either immediately or after a few minutes, it was about 5-6 days later. I > didn’t know if there was something wrong with his ISP or he had changed his > address, I got really paranoid and assumed I had done something pretty > terrible, but then I thought it would be awful to lose his friendship purely > through paranoia when it might not be the case.

Michelle, I know for a fact that he has always valued your friendship. His ISP was purchased by a larger one, but that was a while ago, about June I think. Did you ever have a new one for him? Does the one you have have a number as part of it? He probably meant to let people know his new one, but the switch coincided with the time his friend discovered the cancer and had brain surgery, and he was so distracted he may have overlooked some people. Then I also seem to recall that you had an incomunicado period in there somewhere, and he mentioned that mail to you was bouncing back. I don’t recall exactly when that was, but I think it was after the ISP change.. > Perhaps you could ask him to drop me a line at this address (it is valid) > and I’ll check his e-mail is the same as the one I have.

I will Michelle, but he’ll be in Boston until after New Years. > Give him my best Lily, and tell him I am really pleased to hear about his > friend. > Michelle

I will if he calls from Boston. Would it be alright if I email you? Maybe I can help clear this up. And I could tell you a bit about my recent trip to San Francisco (if you catch my drift). Lily

Response:

"TigerLily" wrote in message

news:9vpl7f$gdjus$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > Michelle, I’m sure you’d be welcome, why in the world wouldn’t you be? Or > you could always email him, it’s a lot cheaper. However, early Thursday he > leaves for Boston, to spend the holidays with his friend who has brain > cancer. Said friend’s tumor is shrinking now by the way, he just told me > today, and he sounds like a huge weight has been lifted from him, which of > course it has. So yes, he’s ok, feeling very good right now in fact.

I am so glad he is OK, I was getting more and more worried about him. The last e-mail I sent him Lily bounced back, but not in the normal way, either immediately or after a few minutes, it was about 5-6 days later. I didn’t know if there was something wrong with his ISP or he had changed his address, I got really paranoid and assumed I had done something pretty terrible, but then I thought it would be awful to lose his friendship purely through paranoia when it might not be the case. Perhaps you could ask him to drop me a line at this address (it is valid) and I’ll check his e-mail is the same as the one I have. Give him my best Lily, and tell him I am really pleased to hear about his friend. Michelle

Response:

"SonicFish" wrote in message

news:9vohek$c72$1@knossos.btinternet.com… > does he not post any more? > Is he doin OK? > /me been away too long > grooves > SonicFish

He’s ok Snik, just hasn’t been posting much lately. And he’s leaving his ‘puter for a couple of weeks, so won’t be around at all ’til the new year, but he’s good. Lily > duck wrote in message > news:iRJT7.33960$pU3.3891968@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… > > "TigerLily" wrote in message > > news:9vij66$fdup9$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > > Lily, are you in contact with SP? Is he OK? > > I would phone him but I am unsure I would be welcome. > > Michelle

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 – Release Date: 12/12/2001

Response:

"TigerLily" wrote in message

news:9vij66$fdup9$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… Lily, are you in contact with SP? Is he OK? I would phone him but I am unsure I would be welcome. Michelle

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does he not post any more? Is he doin OK? /me been away too long grooves SonicFish ********************************************** duck wrote in message

news:iRJT7.33960$pU3.3891968@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "TigerLily" wrote in message > news:9vij66$fdup9$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > Lily, are you in contact with SP? Is he OK? > I would phone him but I am unsure I would be welcome. > Michelle

Response:

"duck" wrote in message

news:iRJT7.33960$pU3.3891968@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… > Lily, are you in contact with SP? Is he OK? > I would phone him but I am unsure I would be welcome. > Michelle

Michelle, I’m sure you’d be welcome, why in the world wouldn’t you be? Or you could always email him, it’s a lot cheaper. However, early Thursday he leaves for Boston, to spend the holidays with his friend who has brain cancer. Said friend’s tumor is shrinking now by the way, he just told me today, and he sounds like a huge weight has been lifted from him, which of course it has. So yes, he’s ok, feeling very good right now in fact. Lily — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 – Release Date: 12/12/2001

Response:

"duck" wrote in message

news:sI6T7.16385$pU3.1918995@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "TigerLily" wrote in message > news:9vikut$eol0m$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > > To me it’s not "normal" and I’m with you Michelle, I hate it. Here it > seems > > to depend on one’s family background, in some families lip kissing starts > at > > birth. I try to hide when I see those kids coming, as the kiss usually > > comes with a mixture of dirt, grape jam and snot which I find even more > > annoying than the usual saliva. In other families kids are kissed on the > > forehead and adults on the cheek, in others it’s mostly hugs, while in > > others there is barely any physical contact. > Yes, children can be remarkably sticky. I have a very strict policy NEVER > to reject affection. I know how it feels and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone > else, so whoever, whatever, wherever, sticky or slobbery, I’m afraid I do > my best to welcome it. 99 times out of a 100 it is MORE than welcome. But > I do get the odd time when I find it uncomfortable. Like hey all I did was > buy you a Christmas present, one giant hug and 5 sloppy kisses is OTT!!! > But even so, I have never pushed anyone away.

Nor have I. If my efforts to hide when I see it coming fail, then I welcome it, or try to. > > My own immediate family fell pretty much into the latter catigory, but > there > > were kissers in the large extended family, and I cringed when I had to > deal > > with it, and always felt they were what turned me off kissing (except for > > lovers of course). On the other hand, I had to learn to accept and give > > hugs, which I now love. There is nothing quite like a big sincere hug. > Yes, and not just a hello, goodbye kind of hug either. The kind of hug > that’s in the middle of the day when you are half way through the washing up > or doing a bank reconciliation. Or maybe having a few beers with a friend. > Or maybe when someone is feeling down.

Yes, a spontaneous hug like that means a lot more than those more "formal" hello-goodbye-thank-you hugs and kisses. Or rather it can. But in some cases the hello-goodbye hugs are pretty nice too, when they’re sincere. > I am always very concerned when I meet someone that doesn’t have much > affection in their lives, particularly when I know that they feel things > deeply.

Yes. And those people have so much affection to give. Very sad if no one wants to receive it. Affection to me is never a "feeling" as such, and some people find > it hard to appreciate that. What you feel for someone when you look into > their eyes or touch their hand is very different from the blatant expression > of a hug or a friendly kiss. Just an accidental touch from someone you > really care for can send you into cloud 9 of emotion and feeling. To me, a > hug is very different from the feelings I have inside. It’s an expression > of love and caring, but I feel those emotions much stronger if I just watch > someone I care about sleeping, or see them get confused about their socks > and silly things like that.

Yes, I agree totally. > Anyway Lily, I am not sticky, dirty or covered in snot, but a worse offense > I think. I probably tinge a little of beer. > {{{BBB*hug*BBB}}} > so nice warm beer huggy to you. > Michelle

Nothing wrong with beer-tinged hug, in fact I like them. I have no beer handy, so please accept a warm but sleepy {{{{hug}}}} back. Jeez, what a lot of hugging is going on around here lately. Nice. Lily — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 – Release Date: 12/12/2001

Response:

"TigerLily" wrote in message > My own immediate family fell pretty much into the latter catigory, but there > were kissers in the large extended family, and I cringed when I had to deal > with it…..

My solution when encountering such people is to pretend to have a cold. As they approach i advise them that they don’t really want my germs – works a treat

Response:

"TigerLily" wrote in message

news:9vikut$eol0m$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > To me it’s not "normal" and I’m with you Michelle, I hate it. Here it seems > to depend on one’s family background, in some families lip kissing starts at > birth. I try to hide when I see those kids coming, as the kiss usually > comes with a mixture of dirt, grape jam and snot which I find even more > annoying than the usual saliva. In other families kids are kissed on the > forehead and adults on the cheek, in others it’s mostly hugs, while in > others there is barely any physical contact.

Yes, children can be remarkably sticky. I have a very strict policy NEVER to reject affection. I know how it feels and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone else, so whoever, whatever, wherever, sticky or slobbery, I’m afraid I do my best to welcome it. 99 times out of a 100 it is MORE than welcome. But I do get the odd time when I find it uncomfortable. Like hey all I did was buy you a Christmas present, one giant hug and 5 sloppy kisses is OTT!!! But even so, I have never pushed anyone away. > My own immediate family fell pretty much into the latter catigory, but there > were kissers in the large extended family, and I cringed when I had to deal > with it, and always felt they were what turned me off kissing (except for > lovers of course). On the other hand, I had to learn to accept and give > hugs, which I now love. There is nothing quite like a big sincere hug.

Yes, and not just a hello, goodbye kind of hug either. The kind of hug that’s in the middle of the day when you are half way through the washing up or doing a bank reconciliation. Or maybe having a few beers with a friend. Or maybe when someone is feeling down. I am always very concerned when I meet someone that doesn’t have much affection in their lives, particularly when I know that they feel things deeply. Affection to me is never a "feeling" as such, and some people find it hard to appreciate that. What you feel for someone when you look into their eyes or touch their hand is very different from the blatant expression of a hug or a friendly kiss. Just an accidental touch from someone you really care for can send you into cloud 9 of emotion and feeling. To me, a hug is very different from the feelings I have inside. It’s an expression of love and caring, but I feel those emotions much stronger if I just watch someone I care about sleeping, or see them get confused about their socks and silly things like that. Anyway Lily, I am not sticky, dirty or covered in snot, but a worse offense I think. I probably tinge a little of beer. {{{BBB*hug*BBB}}} so nice warm beer huggy to you. Michelle

Response:

snot is worse then beer. Beer is almost perfume…snot is like disease encrusted grease or something. I’m shy of kssing. I think hugging and touching is major cool. Maybe with a hot mamma kissing can work good. But I’ve had good relationships where the kissing thing didn’t work out so good so we didn’t do that much. Course……other things were done….. This is a family rated channel we have here right? Damo http://www.netword.com/Damodara’s.Passage http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MyStoryasIseeit

Response:

"duck" wrote in message

news:yNxS7.6428$ia7.906558@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Everyone says I am less affectionate since I have come back from my sojourn > in the skies. > I am having to consciously think now whether a hug or a squeeze or a kiss is > in order. > I have never felt really happy about kissing friends on the lips, > particularly women. I gave the secretary a little Christmas pressie and she > threw her arms around me and hugged me and bother it, I felt awkward. > I don’t think you can underestimate the power and importance of affection. > We have paranoia. We think possibly that no one could possibly want a hug > from us. > But believe me, they do. > If in doubt, give a hug. > No one is going to say f*** you if you care. > This world is full of sad people, people with failed marriages, loneliness, > heartache. Reaching out to whatever solace is there and available is > sometimes the only comfort we have. > I have always valued affection, kind words………..people can die for the > lack of it. > Why do people commit suicide……..isn’t it because they sincerely feel > that no one cares? That their existence can be wiped out and that is more > important than the pain that is left behind to those who cared? > The frozen wastelands exist in all our hearts because basically we are alone > in the concept of our identity and in crossing the final barrier of death. > Don’t remember September 11th and the rapes and the > corruption…………just remember the kind words people say, the kind > things people do, and when you do cross that barrier to the final frontier > remember something of the good you leave behind. > There is simply no point if you don’t. > Forgive me if this message is too serious for this newsgroup. No doubt I > will be accused of speaking a load of bullshit and being insincere. What > the hell…………….. all round. > Michelle

arrrr go on, have some nice stale bread on me. — kes

Response:

(((((((huggies))))))) (((((((snuggies)))))) to all. HAY!!! LIME! Hiya! I see ya sitting back there. Buy my Christmas CD. Love to all. Damodara http://www.netword.com/Damodara’s.Passage http://community.webtv.net/damodara/MyStoryasIseeit

Response:

"duck" wrote in message

news:pxLS7.5655$pU3.616588@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a real problem with lips. The only person I feel comfortable with > lip contact would be a lover but family and friends keep aiming for my lips > and sometimes it’s just impossible to divert them. I feel kind of weird > kissing my boss’s little brother on the lips and god, even weirder the > secretary……….why? Why do they want this? Does it make you MORE of a > friend if you can kiss on the lips? > To me there is a defining line, hugs, affection, squeezes, kisses on the > cheek……..that to me is friendship. > I can’t stand all this slobbering about with friends. > Is it me? Is it "normal" and "socially acceptable" to kiss friends on the > lips? > Please let me know and I might maybe have to redefine my strategy and get > used to a bit of slobbering if it’s normal. > Michelle

To me it’s not "normal" and I’m with you Michelle, I hate it. Here it seems to depend on one’s family background, in some families lip kissing starts at birth. I try to hide when I see those kids coming, as the kiss usually comes with a mixture of dirt, grape jam and snot which I find even more annoying than the usual saliva. In other families kids are kissed on the forehead and adults on the cheek, in others it’s mostly hugs, while in others there is barely any physical contact. My own immediate family fell pretty much into the latter catigory, but there were kissers in the large extended family, and I cringed when I had to deal with it, and always felt they were what turned me off kissing (except for lovers of course). On the other hand, I had to learn to accept and give hugs, which I now love. There is nothing quite like a big sincere hug. Lily — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 – Release Date: 12/11/2001

Response:

"duck" wrote in message

news:SPLS7.5785$pU3.640178@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "TigerLily" wrote in message > news:9vepav$eu8rk$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > > No need for forgiveness, because you’re right. I’m around, so I’ll take > one > > of those hugs, with thanks, I love hugs > > from people I like. And Michelle, a big {{{{hug}}}} to you. > > Lily > Thank you. It was well received, I only used a bit of a it and have kept > the balance in my drawer for those long, long nights when sleep eludes me. > It will be nice at about 4 a.m. in the pits of despair to open the drawer > and find what is left of a hug. I used { } much, so I still have {{ }} > left. > Michelle

Good. It was meant to be a very large hug, so there should be plenty left over for those times. Lily — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 – Release Date: 12/11/2001

Response:

"AllSummer Bin LarginIt" wrote in message news:9vg3t7$fa95v$1@ID-29083.news.dfncis.de… > Nah, I’d rather have a tiger. Now they are lovely animals. Such power, > grace and they DEMAND respect! I have a friend who has tigers (lucky > thing).

Tigers are something else, so too all the cat family, leopards, cheethahs, panthers. Beautiful creatures. My ideal pet would be a rabbit. I only have a small flat and a little rabbit hopping around would suit me fine. I think you can house train rabbits and I am seriously thinking of getting one. Ducks are out, unless I moved to the country and had some land. > What’s "normal" ?? In my book you and I are normal.

Hmmm. Is that what we are aiming for? To be "normal"? Vive la difference I always say, as long as it’s not me!!!!! Michelle

Response:

"Hen@ndchick" wrote in message

news:ihsn1ucbqh15svepaml5jgktvboteb01u0@4ax.com… > OMG people kiss each other on the lips where you live! YUCK! I don’t even like > to kiss my lovers on the lips.

Yeah, even my Mum does it to me (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!) on Friday I must have ingested 6-7 different samples of human saliva what with pressie giving at work and the company closedown and all the goodbyes, have a lovely Christmas. Oh my goodness, what kind of hell with lips looming out of the darkness all night long!!!!! As for lovers, that I can manage. I don’t find that unpleasant. Anyhow, come here hen……..give us a kiss!!!!!! Michelle

Response:

"Sandie" wrote in message

news:9vei5f$2l0i$1@server.twwells.com… > Thanks Michelle.

endless hugs for you

Response:

"duck" wrote in message > > I have a real difficulty > > with "hugging and kissing" of people (other than my wife I might add!) – > Just as well!!!!!! ;)

> Personally I can’t stand > dogs, why anyone would want a dog defeats me entirely.

I have no idea, but I guess each to their own. I just wish they would keep their animals out of my way (preferably locked in a cupboard in their own home lol) > I just loathe it > when I am walking down the street and they come up to me and start sniffing > me. I honestly could just kick the damn things…….

I’m glad I’m not the only one. > …I would rather have a cow for a pet.

Nah, I’d rather have a tiger. Now they are lovely animals. Such power, grace and they DEMAND respect! I have a friend who has tigers (lucky thing). > I have a real problem with lips. The only person I feel comfortable with > lip contact would be a lover but family and friends keep aiming for my lips > and sometimes it’s just impossible to divert them.

I know what you mean. It really bugs me. > I feel kind of weird > kissing my boss’s little brother on the lips and god, even weirder the > secretary……….why? Why do they want this?

I don’t know, but I wish they didn’t. > Does it make you MORE of a > friend if you can kiss on the lips?

Not in my book…. > Is it me? Is it "normal" and "socially acceptable" to kiss friends on the > lips? > Please let me know and I might maybe have to redefine my strategy and get > used to a bit of slobbering if it’s normal.

What’s "normal" ?? In my book you and I are normal.

Response:

"TigerLily" wrote in message

news:9vepav$eu8rk$1@ID-17771.news.dfncis.de… > No need for forgiveness, because you’re right. I’m around, so I’ll take one > of those hugs, with thanks, I love hugs > from people I like. And Michelle, a big {{{{hug}}}} to you. > Lily

Thank you. It was well received, I only used a bit of a it and have kept the balance in my drawer for those long, long nights when sleep eludes me. It will be nice at about 4 a.m. in the pits of despair to open the drawer and find what is left of a hug. I used { } much, so I still have {{ }} left. Michelle

Response:

"AllSummer Bin LarginIt" wrote in message news:9vfe4q$eupo0$1@ID-29083.news.dfncis.de… > I understand exactly where you are coming from. I have a real difficulty > with "hugging and kissing" of people (other than my wife I might add!) –

Just as well!!!!!! ;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> whether friends or family. I have put this down to the fact that I don’t > like people invading my "personal space". It’s a bit like during the > Falklands war when the British government imposed a 2 mile (IIRC) exclusion > zone around the islands. If someone invades my exclusion zone without my > consent I feel like firing a bloody great big missile at them I reckon > this feeling is what makes me dislike children and dogs (they all have a > habit of invading your space). My Mum has just bought a dog and last time > I went to see her the damned thing jumped up at me. It really freaked me > out as it invaded my space and touched my face with it’s paws. Thankfully > most people I know understand this, but you get the occasional person who > doesn’t and it kind of winds me up!

I have a rule in life which is never to reject affection although I would agree that kids and dogs are unaware of the line that is drawn between mutual caring and infringing on personal space. Personally I can’t stand dogs, why anyone would want a dog defeats me entirely. I just loathe it when I am walking down the street and they come up to me and start sniffing me. I honestly could just kick the damn things but their owners let them get away with it "Isn’t he cute, isn’t he just lovely" no doubt they are thinking, some chance, I would rather have a cow for a pet. I have a real problem with lips. The only person I feel comfortable with lip contact would be a lover but family and friends keep aiming for my lips and sometimes it’s just impossible to divert them. I feel kind of weird kissing my boss’s little brother on the lips and god, even weirder the secretary……….why? Why do they want this? Does it make you MORE of a friend if you can kiss on the lips? To me there is a defining line, hugs, affection, squeezes, kisses on the cheek……..that to me is friendship. I can’t stand all this slobbering about with friends. Is it me? Is it "normal" and "socially acceptable" to kiss friends on the lips? Please let me know and I might maybe have to redefine my strategy and get used to a bit of slobbering if it’s normal. Michelle

Response:

"duck" wrote in message

No need for forgiveness, because you’re right. I’m around, so I’ll take one of those hugs, with thanks, I love hugs from people I like. And Michelle, a big {{{{hug}}}} to you. Lily — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.307 / Virus Database: 168 – Release Date: 12/11/2001

Response:

"duck" wrote in message > I am having to consciously think now whether a hug or a squeeze or a kiss is > in order. > I have never felt really happy about kissing friends on the lips, > particularly women. I gave the secretary a little Christmas pressie and she > threw her arms around me and hugged me and bother it, I felt awkward.

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I have a real difficulty with "hugging and kissing" of people (other than my wife I might add!) – whether friends or family. I have put this down to the fact that I don’t like people invading my "personal space". It’s a bit like during the Falklands war when the British government imposed a 2 mile (IIRC) exclusion zone around the islands. If someone invades my exclusion zone without my consent I feel like firing a bloody great big missile at them I reckon this feeling is what makes me dislike children and dogs (they all have a habit of invading your space). My Mum has just bought a dog and last time I went to see her the damned thing jumped up at me. It really freaked me out as it invaded my space and touched my face with it’s paws. Thankfully most people I know understand this, but you get the occasional person who doesn’t and it kind of winds me up!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -duck wrote: > Everyone says I am less affectionate since I have come back from my sojourn > in the skies. > I am having to consciously think now whether a hug or a squeeze or a kiss is > in order. > I have never felt really happy about kissing friends on the lips, > particularly women. I gave the secretary a little Christmas pressie and she > threw her arms around me and hugged me and bother it, I felt awkward. > I don’t think you can underestimate the power and importance of affection. > We have paranoia. We think possibly that no one could possibly want a hug > from us. > But believe me, they do. > If in doubt, give a hug. > No one is going to say f*** you if you care. > This world is full of sad people, people with failed marriages, loneliness, > heartache. Reaching out to whatever solace is there and available is > sometimes the only comfort we have. > I have always valued affection, kind words………..people can die for the > lack of it. > Why do people commit suicide……..isn’t it because they sincerely feel > that no one cares? That their existence can be wiped out and that is more > important than the pain that is left behind to those who cared? > The frozen wastelands exist in all our hearts because basically we are alone > in the concept of our identity and in crossing the final barrier of death. > Don’t remember September 11th and the rapes and the > corruption…………just remember the kind words people say, the kind > things people do, and when you do cross that barrier to the final frontier > remember something of the good you leave behind. > There is simply no point if you don’t. > Forgive me if this message is too serious for this newsgroup. No doubt I > will be accused of speaking a load of bullshit and being insincere. What > the hell…………….. all round. > Michelle

Thanks Michelle. Sandie — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator

Response:

Everyone says I am less affectionate since I have come back from my sojourn in the skies. I am having to consciously think now whether a hug or a squeeze or a kiss is in order. I have never felt really happy about kissing friends on the lips, particularly women. I gave the secretary a little Christmas pressie and she threw her arms around me and hugged me and bother it, I felt awkward. I don’t think you can underestimate the power and importance of affection. We have paranoia. We think possibly that no one could possibly want a hug from us. But believe me, they do. If in doubt, give a hug. No one is going to say f*** you if you care. This world is full of sad people, people with failed marriages, loneliness, heartache. Reaching out to whatever solace is there and available is sometimes the only comfort we have. I have always valued affection, kind words………..people can die for the lack of it. Why do people commit suicide……..isn’t it because they sincerely feel that no one cares? That their existence can be wiped out and that is more important than the pain that is left behind to those who cared? The frozen wastelands exist in all our hearts because basically we are alone in the concept of our identity and in crossing the final barrier of death. Don’t remember September 11th and the rapes and the corruption…………just remember the kind words people say, the kind things people do, and when you do cross that barrier to the final frontier remember something of the good you leave behind. There is simply no point if you don’t. Forgive me if this message is too serious for this newsgroup. No doubt I will be accused of speaking a load of bullshit and being insincere. What the hell…………….. all round. Michelle

Response:

Ioannis, Are you a white supremist? Do you think there is something inherently special about being born a white man? Daniel

Response:

I wish I could have a hug. I rarely get to hug anyone. LONELY sexually starved

Response:

"Digital Devil IV" wrote in message news:20040314024308.03354.00001221@mb-m23.aol.com… > I wish I could have a hug. I rarely get to hug anyone. > LONELY > sexually starved

I’m just a bug But here is a hug Doesn’t cost much Doesn’t cost anything! Never ending supply Can’t buy them at the shops Here is another one and here is…………………………………………. your reply

Response:

Ο "Lisa Robertson" έγραψε στο μήνυμα news:ZGFya3plbg==.854e183e4fefb682d091b74585af86fa@1079562599.nulluser.com… [snip] > I would hug you, but only if you shower at least twice a day, wear > deoderant and clean clothes, and wash and floss your teeth. > A nice cologne would be nice too. I like a man who wears nice > cologne.

One thinks that if his dad had a little more money, he would have been born white, instead of a Chico. > Are you a negro? Do you have large muscles? I like men who > have the confidence to take what they want from life and not merely > accept what is given to them.

– Ioannis Galidakis http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/jgal/ —————————————— Eventually, _everything_ is understandable

Response:

chlorella seems like it's GOOD STUFF!

admin — Wed, 11 Feb 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

By the way….if chlorella IS a fraud, then why is it the most popular supplement in Japan ? I’ve never thought of the Japanese as being particularly stupid or gullible !!!!

Because of insane people who believe the lies of the sales droids, despite they are told the truth. Regards, Aribert Deckers — Sause an Kanzler’s Kapit