Talk Cancer

Question:

Good question Heidi, I am exactly the same.  I really want to give up but am scared I will be even more anxious. In New Zealand they have subsidised the patches to help people give up, I ordered them and was all ready to do it, when my Mum got ill last December. After she died I just feel like the stress would be too much on me right now, so since my patches expire in November, I have given them to my cousin. Stupid thing is, I have watched my Dad die of throat cancer through smoking and my Mum die of lung and liver cancer through smoking and drinking. I STILL DO IT THOUGH – how dumb is that. I must admit, I don’t want to put on weight either so there is that aspect also. My sister who is ten years older than me (41) is trying to quit after seeing what Mum went through, she was doing really well nearly four weeks and not one smoke (after smoking two packs a day for about 25 years) and has started again. I am not looking forward to giving up as I have heard it is extremely hard, but I think in the long run – anxiety wise it will make us feel better. Imogen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!!

"Quitting smoking is easy. I’ve done it hundreds of times." -Mark Twain That quote about sums it up. Just quit again recently (for REAL this time!) It’s never been an issue for me, though I know I’m unusual in that. I’ve always been a light smoker (and no, I am not in denial!) What I miss, and I suspect is the case for a lot of people too, is not smoking itself, but the, ah, for lack of a better word, ambience that comes with smoking. If you can find something to replace that, it makes life a lot easier.

Response:

Hi Chip, I see Phil took a break from asap. Please don’t make this ng your whole life. Go outside and have some fun, thats why Dr’s give us meds for. ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Heidi, I started smoking when I was 13 or 14 and developed a 3 pack a day habit by the time I was 18. I quit cold turkey on February 7, 1992 and haven’t had one since. I say that I quit everyday since I would love to light up, even now. However, I did become one of those nasty ex-smokers and its unbearable for me to be around cigarette smoke. I think one has to just accept the fact that the habit is a killer and no matter how much you want or miss smoking…you simply have to quit everyday. Peace, John Hi John, I’ve heard quitting cold turkey is the best way to do it. I took one puff of a cigarette at age 6, didn’t like it, and never tried it again. I actually developed an aversion to cigarette smoke. The smell of it and the appearance of cigarette ashes made (still makes) me sick to my stomach. I was addicted to alcohol, quit cold turkey in 1978 (except I took a little Valium for a few days), and never had a craving or desire to drink again. The nature of craving has always fascinated me, since I never craved alcohol after I quit, while others in my AA group said they did.  My guess is that I was resigned to never drinking again cause I knew it would kill me, so I was never tempted to drink again. I think craving may have something to do with people weighing the pros and cons of using a substance. Like they are teetering on the edge of use. I never considered re-using alcohol as an option since I equated alcohol use with death. And I haven’t missed it after the first week of it’s discontinuation, when I was having alcohol withdrawal. Chip

Response:

Hi Heidi, I started smoking when I was 13 or 14 and developed a 3 pack a day habit by the time I was 18. I quit cold turkey on February 7, 1992 and haven’t had one since. I say that I quit everyday since I would love to light up, even now. However, I did become one of those nasty ex-smokers and its unbearable for me to be around cigarette smoke. I think one has to just accept the fact that the habit is a killer and no matter how much you want or miss smoking…you simply have to quit everyday. Peace, John

Hi John, I’ve heard quitting cold turkey is the best way to do it. I took one puff of a cigarette at age 6, didn’t like it, and never tried it again. I actually developed an aversion to cigarette smoke. The smell of it and the appearance of cigarette ashes made (still makes) me sick to my stomach. I was addicted to alcohol, quit cold turkey in 1978 (except I took a little Valium for a few days), and never had a craving or desire to drink again. The nature of craving has always fascinated me, since I never craved alcohol after I quit, while others in my AA group said they did.  My guess is that I was resigned to never drinking again cause I knew it would kill me, so I was never tempted to drink again. I think craving may have something to do with people weighing the pros and cons of using a substance. Like they are teetering on the edge of use. I never considered re-using alcohol as an option since I equated alcohol use with death. And I haven’t missed it after the first week of it’s discontinuation, when I was having alcohol withdrawal. Chip

Response:

Chip, Congratulations on your sobriety. I agree that cold turkey is the way…at least I’ve heard more success stories where cold turkey was the method. I drink minimally now…a scoth on my brithday, a glass of wine with Thanksgiving dinner…a beer at the ballpark. I used to have a problem with alcohol, but I never considered myself an alcoholic. I used alcohol to self medicate during the years of coming out and finding my way in life (mostly in my twenties). I just found myself one day not wanting to go out and get faced, but rather doing some deep woods hiking. Seems like thats the day I pointed myself in a healthier direction. I don’t crave alcohol…but I do crave cigarettes. But my resolve is stronger than my craving, so I’m glad for that. Whatever method brought us to a healthier place of living…at least we are there. I wouldn’t go back to those days for all the money in the world. Thanks for sharing…and again, congratulations. Peace, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Heidi, I started smoking when I was 13 or 14 and developed a 3 pack a day habit by the time I was 18. I quit cold turkey on February 7, 1992 and haven’t had one since. I say that I quit everyday since I would love to light up, even now. However, I did become one of those nasty ex-smokers and its unbearable for me to be around cigarette smoke. I think one has to just accept the fact that the habit is a killer and no matter how much you want or miss smoking…you simply have to quit everyday. Peace, John Hi John, I’ve heard quitting cold turkey is the best way to do it. I took one puff of a cigarette at age 6, didn’t like it, and never tried it again. I actually developed an aversion to cigarette smoke. The smell of it and the appearance of cigarette ashes made (still makes) me sick to my stomach. I was addicted to alcohol, quit cold turkey in 1978 (except I took a little Valium for a few days), and never had a craving or desire to drink again. The nature of craving has always fascinated me, since I never craved alcohol after I quit, while others in my AA group said they did.  My guess is that I was resigned to never drinking again cause I knew it would kill me, so I was never tempted to drink again. I think craving may have something to do with people weighing the pros and cons of using a substance. Like they are teetering on the edge of use. I never considered re-using alcohol as an option since I equated alcohol use with death. And I haven’t missed it after the first week of it’s discontinuation, when I was having alcohol withdrawal. Chip

Response:

:Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo :incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. : :Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im :wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process f withdrawal and after being successful. : :Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but :the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! Dear Heidi, Nice to see a post from you again! Like John, I started smoking when I was 12 or 13 years old, by the time I graduated high school, I was smoking a pack a day, sometimes 2.  I quit in 92 and it was one of the hardest things I ever had to do but one of the best things I could have done for myself. Quitting definitely helped my anxiety, my health and put money in my pocket When I smoked it seemed I always had bronchitis, needed antibiotics and inhalers, since I quit I rarely get bronchitis anymore. I still get the occasional craving for a again not to mention how much cigarettes cost. Quitting is hard, it is hard to envision yourself not smoking yet having a good time especially in social situations…….it takes time and patience but it can be done. Good luck! Jackie ~*~I like to be a bitch so much that it pisses me off when my period ends~*~

Response:

It is such a hard thing to do….good luck Jessica. I have been thinking, one of the MANY reasons I want to quit is  that part of my anxiety is constant ‘doom’…I must go through 5 different cancers a day that I just KNOW (lol) I have.  Maybe not smoking will ‘cure’ half of them.  Wondering if this makes sense. Thanks for the ramble!!! — ~Heidi~

Morning Heidi, I know that there are some that post here that have quit smoking.  I’ve quit several times. : )  The last time I quit it was for two years, and I did notice that after I got through the initial hell of quitting, my anxiety levels dropped off a little bit.  No miracles for me, but I’ll take any little bit I can get.  Working on quitting again now, and this time it will be for good. Jess

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

Hi Heidi, I started smoking when I was 13 or 14 and developed a 3 pack a day habit by the time I was 18. I quit cold turkey on February 7, 1992 and haven’t had one since. I say that I quit everyday since I would love to light up, even now. However, I did become one of those nasty ex-smokers and its unbearable for me to be around cigarette smoke. I think one has to just accept the fact that the habit is a killer and no matter how much you want or miss smoking…you simply have to quit everyday. Peace, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

It makes perfect sense Heidi!  I wish I could quit too.  Been trying to cut back for so many months now.  <sigh  Will I ever quit?  I wish you much success. Hugs, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is such a hard thing to do….good luck Jessica. I have been thinking, one of the MANY reasons I want to quit is  that part of my anxiety is constant ‘doom’…I must go through 5 different cancers a day that I just KNOW (lol) I have.  Maybe not smoking will ‘cure’ half of them.  Wondering if this makes sense. Thanks for the ramble!!! — ~Heidi~ Morning Heidi, I know that there are some that post here that have quit smoking.  I’ve quit several times. : )  The last time I quit it was for two years, and I did notice that after I got through the initial hell of quitting, my anxiety levels dropped off a little bit.  No miracles for me, but I’ll take any little bit I can get.  Working on quitting again now, and this time it will be for good. Jess Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

Hi Heidi,

I quit cold turkey on February 7, 1992 and haven’t had one since. CONGRATULATIONS! Di – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peace, John

Response:

Heidi, I quit smoking a long time ago (1984) when my anxiety wasn’t as bad as it became later, but I want to offer you my support and encouragement! Yes, it’s a total pain to quit, but it is the best gift you can give yourself in the long run. Try chewing sugarless gum when you get those oral cravings for a ciggie, and also keep a plastic straw with you, and chew or suck on that when you have urges. I know some others on the newsgroup have quit in the last few years (Rita, Charla), and maybe they will chime in with advice. HANG IN THERE. You will not be sorry! Think of me cheering and hooting and hollering for you when you have a bad moment — that should be enough to crack you up and you’ll get past that rough spot — LOL!  8-D xo Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

Morning Heidi, I know that there are some that post here that have quit smoking.  I’ve quit several times. : )  The last time I quit it was for two years, and I did notice that after I got through the initial hell of quitting, my anxiety levels dropped off a little bit.  No miracles for me, but I’ll take any little bit I can get.  Working on quitting again now, and this time it will be for good. Jess

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Morning (((ASAP)))  Havent been around much, summer keeps me soooo incredibly busy.  Hope everyone is fairing as well as possible. Has anyone in here quit smoking?  lol….silly question it seems but Im wondering what happens with a persons anxiety when they quit, in the process of withdrawal and after being successful. Seems to me the lack of stimulants would in the long run HELP my anxiety but the process S-U-C-K-S!!!!! — ~Heidi~

Response:

Question:

I’m so sorry about  Purrl — condolences from us. Christine, Omar, Midnight,Shetra & Oreo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do.  I think they do.  We lost our Purrl to feline leukemia on Saturday.  Ever since, the other two cats have been extremely affectionate and nearby.  In the past, we rarely saw them.  I think they miss their sister. Carol

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

and please, please let us know how she is. Karen

Response:

I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do.

 I think they do.  We lost our Purrl to feline leukemia on Saturday.  Ever since, the other two cats have been extremely affectionate and nearby.  In the past, we rarely saw them.  I think they miss their sister. Carol

Response:

Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

They do indeed. I recently heard an article (can’t recall where) but there was a reference that the part of the brain that controls emotions is very similar in cats and humans. All vets will totally agree that animals experience grief and most of us have seen it. I saw it when my cat Dimples mother died at the age of 23. Up until then, you would NEVER have guessed how old Dimples was (22), but once her mom died boom, she became an "old" cat suddenly. She also only lived one more year, but all her "age" came during the grieving period. Many many purrs and headbutts to you guys. I hope your little Abbey does OK. Give Tibbit and your cocker LOTS of extra loving. It will make both them and you feel better while Abbey is at the Hospital. Karen

Response:

I’m so sorry about  Purrl — condolences from us. Christine, Omar, Midnight,Shetra & Oreo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do.  I think they do.  We lost our Purrl to feline leukemia on Saturday.  Ever since, the other two cats have been extremely affectionate and nearby.  In the past, we rarely saw them.  I think they miss their sister. Carol

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

and please, please let us know how she is. Karen

Response:

I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do.

 I think they do.  We lost our Purrl to feline leukemia on Saturday.  Ever since, the other two cats have been extremely affectionate and nearby.  In the past, we rarely saw them.  I think they miss their sister. Carol

Response:

Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

They do indeed. I recently heard an article (can’t recall where) but there was a reference that the part of the brain that controls emotions is very similar in cats and humans. All vets will totally agree that animals experience grief and most of us have seen it. I saw it when my cat Dimples mother died at the age of 23. Up until then, you would NEVER have guessed how old Dimples was (22), but once her mom died boom, she became an "old" cat suddenly. She also only lived one more year, but all her "age" came during the grieving period. Many many purrs and headbutts to you guys. I hope your little Abbey does OK. Give Tibbit and your cocker LOTS of extra loving. It will make both them and you feel better while Abbey is at the Hospital. Karen

Response:

I’m so sorry about  Purrl — condolences from us. Christine, Omar, Midnight,Shetra & Oreo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do.  I think they do.  We lost our Purrl to feline leukemia on Saturday.  Ever since, the other two cats have been extremely affectionate and nearby.  In the past, we rarely saw them.  I think they miss their sister. Carol

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

and please, please let us know how she is. Karen

Response:

I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do.

 I think they do.  We lost our Purrl to feline leukemia on Saturday.  Ever since, the other two cats have been extremely affectionate and nearby.  In the past, we rarely saw them.  I think they miss their sister. Carol

Response:

Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, hoping all is well with the group and your buddies I haven’t been on in awhile. But I have a guestion. My Persion Abbey is 10 yrs. old and was just diagnosed with pnuemia. My Vet took her today to start her on an IV to get as much meds in her as possible. more then anything I want to be with her right now but all that I can do is wait. I will be up there first thing in the morning though. My question is this, My husband and I have another cat and this is the first time I have owned two cats at once. anyway they are very close they just adore each other, In the last several hours my boy tibbit has been acting very different looking all around the house and just cuddling us witch is unusual for him. Can he sense somethings wrong? my husband and I feel really bad for him as well as ourselves even my Cocker is moping around. I was just curious if cats go through simaliar grievences as we do. Thank you in advance. Tracy And Brad —

They do indeed. I recently heard an article (can’t recall where) but there was a reference that the part of the brain that controls emotions is very similar in cats and humans. All vets will totally agree that animals experience grief and most of us have seen it. I saw it when my cat Dimples mother died at the age of 23. Up until then, you would NEVER have guessed how old Dimples was (22), but once her mom died boom, she became an "old" cat suddenly. She also only lived one more year, but all her "age" came during the grieving period. Many many purrs and headbutts to you guys. I hope your little Abbey does OK. Give Tibbit and your cocker LOTS of extra loving. It will make both them and you feel better while Abbey is at the Hospital. Karen

Response:

Question:

Actually we aren’t really concerned, just kinda surprised that OHSU sounded shocked…she has built a fairly good relationship with her doc and they seem to comunicate well.   Thanks all for your input. Sue D. On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:43:03 -0400, "jan g" <gillett…@hotmail.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->nowadays, I sometimes just talk to my neuro on the phone, he orders lab >tests to rule out infection, and that’s it.  but, I’ve had MS since 1978 and >have had the same doctor for the whole time.  this wasn’t always the >arrangement between us, and I still go in for major flares. >my insurance is BCBS and Medicare. >I guess whether or not you should be concerned depends……..but if your >daughter isn’t comfortable with this arrangement, I think that she should >question it. >jan g >"Davis" <pack-al…@verizon.net> wrote in message >> Hi all, I’m asking a question for my daughter.  She just started in a >> tcr peptide study at OHSU, and is seeming to have a flare up. >> Reported it to OHSU, they said she should talk with her doc >> and they would let them know the dosage of steroids they could >> use.  So she got started yesterday…three day thing no taper… >> anyway, OHSU called her today, and wanted to know what >> her doc had said…well she never sees her doc when this >> happens…she just communicates with the nurse, nurse >> talks to doc, doc talks to nurse, nurse talks to DD…OHSU >> was freaked!!!  So how many of you actually see your doc >> when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing? >> Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? >> The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing >> starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… >> anyone have any experience like this? >> Thanks, >> Sue D.

Response:

nowadays, I sometimes just talk to my neuro on the phone, he orders lab tests to rule out infection, and that’s it.  but, I’ve had MS since 1978 and have had the same doctor for the whole time.  this wasn’t always the arrangement between us, and I still go in for major flares. my insurance is BCBS and Medicare. I guess whether or not you should be concerned depends……..but if your daughter isn’t comfortable with this arrangement, I think that she should question it. jan g – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Davis" <pack-al…@verizon.net> wrote in message > Hi all, I’m asking a question for my daughter.  She just started in a > tcr peptide study at OHSU, and is seeming to have a flare up. > Reported it to OHSU, they said she should talk with her doc > and they would let them know the dosage of steroids they could > use.  So she got started yesterday…three day thing no taper… > anyway, OHSU called her today, and wanted to know what > her doc had said…well she never sees her doc when this > happens…she just communicates with the nurse, nurse > talks to doc, doc talks to nurse, nurse talks to DD…OHSU > was freaked!!!  So how many of you actually see your doc > when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing? > Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? > The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing > starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… > anyone have any experience like this? > Thanks, > Sue D.

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I also have Kaiser and live in the Portland area.  Kaiser has what is called a Nurse Practitioner who specializes in MS.  She works in conjunction with the neurologist.  She has groups for Newly Diagnosed, Helps you decide which ABC drug, if any, to use.  Works with your employer if you need special accommodations at work.  She covers multitude of areas, one of witch is being the go between you and your doctor and any third party if oked by you. She converses with your doctor regarding each contact, call, or question. And she is there for moral support. I think having an MS neuro nurse is great.  I get my questions answered usually the same day.  However, I have pretty much outgrown the need for her, only because after being on Avonex for 2 years I have not had any major flare ups that I need to deal with.  I just see my neuro about every 6 to 8 months, to check my stability and meds. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Davis" <pack-al…@verizon.net> wrote in message >> Hi all, I’m asking a question for my daughter.  She just started in a >> tcr peptide study at OHSU, and is seeming to have a flare up. >> Reported it to OHSU, they said she should talk with her doc >> and they would let them know the dosage of steroids they could >> use.  So she got started yesterday…three day thing no taper… >> anyway, OHSU called her today, and wanted to know what >> her doc had said…well she never sees her doc when this >> happens…she just communicates with the nurse, nurse >> talks to doc, doc talks to nurse, nurse talks to DD…OHSU >> was freaked!!!  So how many of you actually see your doc >> when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing? >> Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? >> The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing >> starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… >> anyone have any experience like this? >> Thanks, >> Sue D.

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On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:49:42 -0700, "Michael" <muirh…@island.net> wrote: }Not me, that’s for sure.  This is the first time I’ve ever even *heard* of }anything like this.   Should you be concerned?  I dunno, really… *I* sure would }be.

I have never had IVMP without being seen by my neuro first. He had to actually write the order. The clinic nurses would not advise it without my being seen. Sounds like very poor medical practice to me. Anyhow, nurses don’t, or should not, diagnose, especially over the telephone! Joan

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"Davis" <pack-al…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:3b7d6ae3.139201062@news.verizon.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, I’m asking a question for my daughter.  She just started in a > tcr peptide study at OHSU, and is seeming to have a flare up. > Reported it to OHSU, they said she should talk with her doc > and they would let them know the dosage of steroids they could > use.  So she got started yesterday…three day thing no taper… > anyway, OHSU called her today, and wanted to know what > her doc had said…well she never sees her doc when this > happens…she just communicates with the nurse, nurse > talks to doc, doc talks to nurse, nurse talks to DD…OHSU > was freaked!!!  So how many of you actually see your doc > when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing? > Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? > The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing > starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… > anyone have any experience like this?

My neuro would not think twice about a dose pack of steroids with out seeing me. He does put a lot of trust in what I tell him though. In fact he gave me a prescription to start if a problem started up during physical therapy with my neck like it did last time to get a head start on it. Gordon

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Hi all, I’m asking a question for my daughter.  She just started in a tcr peptide study at OHSU, and is seeming to have a flare up. Reported it to OHSU, they said she should talk with her doc and they would let them know the dosage of steroids they could use.  So she got started yesterday…three day thing no taper… anyway, OHSU called her today, and wanted to know what her doc had said…well she never sees her doc when this happens…she just communicates with the nurse, nurse talks to doc, doc talks to nurse, nurse talks to DD…OHSU was freaked!!!  So how many of you actually see your doc when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing? Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… anyone have any experience like this? Thanks, Sue D.

Response:

Hi Sue, it may be just Kaiser. I’ve always seen my neuro whenever I’ve had a problem. I’m sure the nurses really know just as much (pls, no offense to docs) but I’m more comfortable with an "eyeball to eyeball" relationship with the dr.  Shirl "Davis" <pack-al…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:3b7d6ae3.139201062@news.verizon.net… SNIP: So how many of you actually see your doc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing? > Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? > The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing > starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… > anyone have any experience like this? > Thanks, > Sue D.

Response:

Hi!  I  took part in a peptide vaccine at SUNY@Stony Brook, NY in 1997. I felt the vaccine helped but it didn’t move into wider trials here.         When I’ve had steroids for a flare the doc always checks if I might have an infection which might result in the sx I’m experiencing before choosing to begin steroid therapy. If I’m infection-free Dr. Coyle will then prescribe home infusion of iv therapy. This is because I’ve had steroid therapy in the past. If your daughter hasn’t she may want to do it in a hospital where her rection to this therapy can be monitored.                         Jayne

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"Davis" <pack-al…@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:3b7d6ae3.139201062@news.verizon.net… >  So she got started yesterday…three day thing no taper… > anyway, OHSU called her today, and wanted to know what > her doc had said…well she never sees her doc when this > happens…she just communicates with the nurse, nurse > talks to doc, doc talks to nurse, nurse talks to DD…OHSU > was freaked!!!  So how many of you actually see your doc > when you have a flareup?  Is this just a Kaiser thing?

I dunno about Kaiser, but I know a little about IV steroids.   Anyone who prescribes medicine as powerful and potentially dangerous as Solu-medrol without an exam – in a second-hand conversation (please tell me this wasn’t done over the phone!) no less – should be forbidden to practice medicine, IMHO. You don’t need a neuro to prescribe a course of steroids (though your neuro should be advised in writing, just to keep your records up to date,) but you sure as hell outta have a doctor present to get a look at you before the IV is started. I’d actually be surpised if something like this would even be *legal* in Canada. Personally, I wouldn’t do a course of steroids without being hospitalized for the duration of the infusion, plus another 3 or 4 days tacked on the far end of it for safety’s sake… but then, I tend to go right out of my mind on that stuff, so it’s a good idea for someone to have a chemical straitjacket at the ready, and that means a having doc handy 24/7 for at least a week. > Should we be concerned…or is OHSU  overcompetent? > The nurse there talked like this is a "not done" thing > starting an MS patient on steroids without seeing them… > anyone have any experience like this?

Not me, that’s for sure.  This is the first time I’ve ever even *heard* of anything like this.   Should you be concerned?  I dunno, really… *I* sure would be. As an aside, however… if it really *is* OK to do something like this with as potent a drug as methylprednislone, how come it requires 2 specialists’ signatures and endless red tape, and can take up to a year to get permission to smoke a joint to curtail nausea from cancer chemotherapy?  (Even then, you have to be a Canadian citizen, living in Canada… it’s illegal everywhere else on Earth.) —      ((((((((((U))))))))))  Michael <muirh…@island.net> -=| Livin’ on Mercury Island |=-

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Addiction vs. Dependency: Benzodiazepines & Anxiety Disorders Xanax is one of several benzodiazepines. The alleged addictiveness of Xanax and other benzodiazepines is a hot topic among people with anxiety disorders and the professionals who treat us. The issue is often discussed on online support groups, sometimes resulting in heated debate. "Needing medication for many years — even over a lifetime — to function normally is not drug abuse or drug addiction but rather medical dependence." — William D. Kernodle, Panic Disorder: The Medical Point of View RESEARCH "In patients without histories of substance abuse, who are prescribed benzodiazepines under medical supervision . . . benzodiazepines almost never induce behavior that satisfies any reasonable definition of addiction" (Piper, Jr., A. "Addiction to Benzodiazepines — How Common?" Archives of Family Medicine 4.11 (1995): 964-970). "Long-term users of alprazolam/lorazepam . . . used a constant or decreasing dose of medication . . . Persistant use of alprazolam/lorazepam for therapeutic purposes did not represent abuse or addiction as the terms are usually understood" (Romach, M., et. al. "Clinical Aspects of Chronic Use of Alprazolam and Lorazepam." American Journal of Psychiatry 152.8 (1995): 1161-1170). "The vast majority of the use of benzodiazepines is appropriate. Problems of nonmedical use arise nearly exclusively among people who abuse other drugs" (Woods, J.H. and G. Winger. "Current Benzodiazepine Issues." Psychopharmacology 118.2 (1995): 107-115). "With panic/agoraphobia patients there is no evidence of abuse. Chronic use is justified in these patients; risk must be weighed against benefit, dependence against relief . . . Potential abusers are those with personality disorders, dysphoria (mood disturbance) and current or previous substance abuse . . . there is no epidemic of misuse. Abuse seems to be limited to substance abusers . . . chronic use is justified in chronic anxiety patients. Chronic use does not usually lead to abuse" (American Psychiatric Association. Benzodiazepine Task Force on Use, Dependence, Toxicity and Abuse. May 1990). The Definitions The term addiction is often equated with abuse. Addiction is generally marked by tolerance and/or psychological dependence. With tolerance, a person needs to increase the dosage of a medication over time in order to receive the same therapeutic benefits. Studies show that the majority of people with anxiety disorders do not increase their benzodiazepine dosages over time; in fact, most lower their dosages. When we think of addiction we are often thinking of psychological dependence. With psychological dependence, a person continues to take a medication no matter what the consequences. The person will also seek out the medication no matter what the consequences. Again, as with tolerance, most studies show that people with anxiety disorders do not become psychologically dependent on benzodiazepines. The exceptions to the studies mentioned above are people who have a history of addiction to other drugs. People with such a history are possibly at risk for becoming addicted to benzodiazepines, too. A condition which does occur with long-term, regular use of benzodiazepines is physical dependence. After using benzodiazepines regularly for a few months (and the time varies for each individual), a person’s body will usually adapt to the drug. If the medication is stopped abruptly, the person will experience withdrawal symptoms. These symptoms may be lessened (or even eliminated) by slowly tapering off the medication, if one chooses to stop taking it. Benzodiazepines should be discontinued only with the supervision of a qualified physician. People who are on medication for an illness for a long time are not addicted to the medication; they are medically dependent on it. They need to keep taking the medication in order to keep the symptoms of the illness away. The majority of anxiety disorders patients who take benzodiazepines over the long term fall into the category of medical dependence. The rest of the article is at http://panicdisorder.about.com/health/panicdisorder/library/weekly/aa031 997.htm Before you buy. This article itself, and these definitions are also obsolete.  Noone in the field of addiction equates addiction with dependence (physical or otherwise) anymore.

And nobody claimed this in Julie’s text. Although I appreciate every effort to define the difference between addiction & dependence I can’t find anything in Julie’s quote that contradicts what you say below. You basically say the same thing…. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Addiction is defined as a pathological overinvolvement with a drug characterised by compulsive drug-seeking and compulsive drug taking, even after withdrawal.  Dependence is DEFINED by the onset of a market WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME when the drug is terminated. Fortunately, dependence is easy to treat. You quit the drug and dependence goes away after withdrawal (maybe 2 weeks). Sadly, addiction does not go away — relapse rates for addictive drugs like cocaine are 75% a year after withdrawal is over — this is one of the strongest reasons to believe they are unrelated. Second, drugs that produce strong dependence are not necessarily the most addictive, that is, there is no strong relationship between the size of withdrawal and size of addiction.  Alcohol and barbiturates produce, by far, the strongest withdrawal and dependence but are only mildly addictive.  On the other hand, cocaine and amphetamine produce only mild withdrawal and dependence but are strongly addictive. Benzodiazepines are not (by any one who has any idea what they are talking about which usually does not include the prescribing doctor unless he is a psychiatrist) addictive. They do produce a MILD dependence and a MILD withdrawal which may make them somewhat habit forming.  The benzos were developed from the drug Miltown which produced a more significant dependence; it was developed from the barbiturates which produce a very strong dependence (again: no addiction).  That is, these drugs represent about 50 years of drug perfecting which has been aimed specifically at reducing this side effect. Historically, there is a lot of confusion about this issue because dependence, withdrawal, and addiction were believed to be the same thing for many decades… this is because the models were based on classical studies of the opiates heroin and morphine for which there is a good correspondence among the phenomena (morphine dependence was widespread after the civil war, and heroin addiction developed soon after Bayer introduced Heroin as a zero side effect version of morphine — it wasn’t).  However, stimulant addiction, which became prevalent in the 60’s has completely abolished this view of addiction, akthough it persists in the popular press and in medical training. The basic story boils down to whether addicts take drugs to avoid the unpleasant consequences of withdrawal (this is the negative reinforcement or dependence view) or for the feeling of a drug high (euphoria — the positive reinforcement view). The bulk of evidence now suggests that the addictive properties of drugs are associated with the ability of a drug to produce a high.  For this reason, very closely related drugs may or may not be addictive. For example, the mechanism of action between vicodin and heroin is the same, but heroin can act much more quickly in the brain and is addictive, whereas vicodin can only produce dependence.  Indeed, the only difference between morphine and heroin is the ability to get in the brain more quickly (indeed, heroin is converted to morphine once it gets in the brain), but heroin is MUCH more addictve. I would suggest you dig out a copy of a RECENT text on addiction… you will find the focus on drug-reinforcing properties and no interest in the ability to produce dependence…. Also the claim that people who are addicted to other drugs will become addicted to benzos is not based on any credible evidence. moreover, there is considerable evidence that there is a genetic propensity for addiction – that is, regardless of use, only certain people ar susceptible to addiction – even to the most addictive drugs. This is not well understood, but is easy to see even in animal studies. So it is misleading to even say that a drug will be habit-forming, even if it was likely to be a habit-forming drug in the susceptible individual. Back to  benzos they do not really have pronounced reinforcing properties… but they can produce a mild dependence, whose withdrawal consists of a more exaggerated anxiety than one would experience even if you never started taking them. So for this reason, they can be hard to get off of. But you won’t find anyone in a "benzo house’ who sold their family earnings, gave up their children, job, and home, and caught AIDS getting the drug — that is addiction… the kind of dependence benzos produce is similar to that produced by long term aspirin use (withdrawal = headaches) and less than that produced by nosedrops (withdrawal = severe congestion). Later, S (a pharmacologist)

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this statement is a complete crock. how you can claim that a controlled substance is not addictive is amazingly negligent for a pharmacologist. i guess you agreed with the tobacco companies too when they use to claim nicotine was not addictive either? please…

You’re must be some kind of a genius. Substances are controlled for legal reasons, not because they have been scientifically proven to be addictive.  Marijuana, which is schedule 1 (no medical use), is not addictive (although it can produce mild dependence and there are a few examples of people who have become addicted, this is certainly not the norm). Nicotine, which is not scheduled, is definitely addictive. Your own statement makes it clear you understand there is no definite relationship between being controlled and addiction (or did you forget that nicotine is not controlled?).  The list of non-addictive substances that are controlled is quite long.  Many have good reasons for being controlled (e.g. LSD, I mean do you want LSD to be over the counter even though it isn’t addictive… the reason it is controlled tightly is because it is mind-alterting, somewhat dangerous, and has no valid medical use). Substances are controlled for various reasons, e.g., (1) abuse potential, which includes the propensity for addiction and dependence (2) no medical use, (3) dangerous, (4) historical reasons.  The Historical reasons, are generally the least scientific (these are the reasons marijuana and heroin are schedule 1=no medical use).   Now, you should also consider that drugs that are controlled here are not controlled in other countries, and those with no medical use may have medical use in other countries. That is the concept of drug abuse is cultural. for example, some codeine preparations are over the counter in Canada, even though US policy is that the drug has high abuse potential (it doesn’t, you will not find a codeine addict anywhere, and recent studies of chronic pain and cancer patients have shown they do not become addicted to it or go own to become addicted to other drugs).  And Heroin is widely medically used in other countries (in England especially) but its medical use is forbidden here. The problem is heroin fills a nice gap in potency between morphine and the MUCH more powerful (with much worse side effects) approved drug fentanyl.  For years, doctors with cancer patients have lobbied to be allowed to use heroin, but for historical reasons they are not allowed to. The historical reason is that heroin was perfectly legal for 30 years and many people became addicted to it, and in the course of a trade war with China over opium imports, the US Government outlawed it forever. So do not expect US drug laws to make sense.  To some extent, they make sense, in that they restrict dangerous substances. But most were written before drug abuse, dependence, and addiction were even understood conceptually. Even today, our understanding of what produces addiction is relatively poor. Unfortunately, the DEA talks (and Barry McAffrey) talks out of its ass as it it knows what addiction is and what produces it.  Indeed, the government seems to understand that its laws need major overhaul, but they will not be overhauled until there is a good understanding of addiction, which there isn’t. So why fix something broke with something else that will be broke.  However, the interference with doctors that the DEA has made is unreasonable and intolerable. Doctors are being held hostage to the remnants of the Reagan drug-war, even though they have nothing to do with the problem — doctors who prescribe, for example, pain medicine, or benzos, do not make addicts, and do not smuggle drugs in from Colombia, and have no reason to be being tracked by the DEA.  THis situation will not last forever, however, in particular, cancer and chronic pain doctors have become fervent in defending their right to take care of their patients without the interfernece of the DEA. Back to the original topic… Moreover, the fact is drug companies have worked hard to remove the properites of drugs that produce dependence and addiction, and by and large have succeeded.  if you understand the rational design that has been the development of benzos (and antidepressents) in fact this (and a reduction in overdose potential) has been one of the main focuses in improvement.  Sure, these drugs still produce some dependence, but not addiction. Later, S (I apologize for posting anonymously but I cannot stand getting endless spam)

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But you won’t find anyone in a "benzo house’ who sold their family earnings, gave up their children, job, and home, and caught AIDS getting the drug — that is addiction..

That is an excellent point — Steve

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this statement is a complete crock. how you can claim that a controlled substance is not addictive is amazingly negligent for a pharmacologist. i guess you agreed with the tobacco companies too when they use to claim nicotine was not addictive either? please…

Response:

this statement is a complete crock. how you can claim that a controlled substance is not addictive is amazingly negligent for a pharmacologist. i guess you agreed with the tobacco companies too when they use to claim nicotine was not addictive either? please…

The authorities often quoted here by the anti benzo clique, folk like noted Canadian addiction expert Dr. Ray Baker [1] and Prof of Psychopharmacology Dr Crystal Heather Ashton, who they claim is the world leading benzo expert and supposedly ran the worlds first benzo detox clinic, also make the distinction between benzos only causing dependence and not addiction. Unfortunately, these are facts they conveniently overlook when they regularly make their benzos are addictive claims here. Ian [1] Dr Baker, quoted by leading anti benzo campaigner David Woolfe: ::Physical dependence is simply a neurobiological phenomenon due to ::continued exposure to a drug. It happens to all human brains exposed ::to drugs such as benzodiazepines and opioids. It is not addiction.

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Julima – Thanks for posting these. We need balanced information like this from time to time to dispell the myths about benzos. — Steve

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Julima – Thanks for posting these. We need balanced information like this from time to time to dispell the myths about benzos. — Steve

Thank you Steve. THis is important to put up front again.!!!! Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Addiction vs. Dependency: Benzodiazepines & Anxiety Disorders Xanax is one of several benzodiazepines. The alleged addictiveness of Xanax and other benzodiazepines is a hot topic among people with anxiety disorders and the professionals who treat us. The issue is often discussed on online support groups, sometimes resulting in heated debate. "Needing medication for many years — even over a lifetime — to function normally is not drug abuse or drug addiction but rather medical dependence." — William D. Kernodle, Panic Disorder: The Medical Point of View RESEARCH "In patients without histories of substance abuse, who are prescribed benzodiazepines under medical supervision . . . benzodiazepines almost never induce behavior that satisfies any reasonable definition of addiction" (Piper, Jr., A. "Addiction to Benzodiazepines — How Common?" Archives of Family Medicine 4.11 (1995): 964-970). "Long-term users of alprazolam/lorazepam . . . used a constant or decreasing dose of medication . . . Persistant use of alprazolam/lorazepam for therapeutic purposes did not represent abuse or addiction as the terms are usually understood" (Romach, M., et. al. "Clinical Aspects of Chronic Use of Alprazolam and Lorazepam." American Journal of Psychiatry 152.8 (1995): 1161-1170). "The vast majority of the use of benzodiazepines is appropriate. Problems of nonmedical use arise nearly exclusively among people who abuse other drugs" (Woods, J.H. and G. Winger. "Current Benzodiazepine Issues." Psychopharmacology 118.2 (1995): 107-115). "With panic/agoraphobia patients there is no evidence of abuse. Chronic use is justified in these patients; risk must be weighed against benefit, dependence against relief . . . Potential abusers are those with personality disorders, dysphoria (mood disturbance) and current or previous substance abuse . . . there is no epidemic of misuse. Abuse seems to be limited to substance abusers . . . chronic use is justified in chronic anxiety patients. Chronic use does not usually lead to abuse" (American Psychiatric Association. Benzodiazepine Task Force on Use, Dependence, Toxicity and Abuse. May 1990). The Definitions The term addiction is often equated with abuse. Addiction is generally marked by tolerance and/or psychological dependence. With tolerance, a person needs to increase the dosage of a medication over time in order to receive the same therapeutic benefits. Studies show that the majority of people with anxiety disorders do not increase their benzodiazepine dosages over time; in fact, most lower their dosages. When we think of addiction we are often thinking of psychological dependence. With psychological dependence, a person continues to take a medication no matter what the consequences. The person will also seek out the medication no matter what the consequences. Again, as with tolerance, most studies show that people with anxiety disorders do not become psychologically dependent on benzodiazepines. The exceptions to the studies mentioned above are people who have a history of addiction to other drugs. People with such a history are possibly at risk for becoming addicted to benzodiazepines, too. A condition which does occur with long-term, regular use of benzodiazepines is physical dependence. After using benzodiazepines regularly for a few months (and the time varies for each individual), a person’s body will usually adapt to the drug. If the medication is stopped abruptly, the person will experience withdrawal symptoms. These symptoms may be lessened (or even eliminated) by slowly tapering off the medication, if one chooses to stop taking it. Benzodiazepines should be discontinued only with the supervision of a qualified physician. People who are on medication for an illness for a long time are not addicted to the medication; they are medically dependent on it. They need to keep taking the medication in order to keep the symptoms of the illness away. The majority of anxiety disorders patients who take benzodiazepines over the long term fall into the category of medical dependence. The rest of the article is at http://panicdisorder.about.com/health/panicdisorder/library/weekly/aa031 997.htm Before you buy.

This article itself, and these definitions are also obsolete.  Noone in the field of addiction equates addiction with dependence (physical or otherwise) anymore.  Addiction is defined as a pathological overinvolvement with a drug characterised by compulsive drug-seeking and compulsive drug taking, even after withdrawal.  Dependence is DEFINED by the onset of a market WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME when the drug is terminated. Fortunately, dependence is easy to treat. You quit the drug and dependence goes away after withdrawal (maybe 2 weeks). Sadly, addiction does not go away — relapse rates for addictive drugs like cocaine are 75% a year after withdrawal is over — this is one of the strongest reasons to believe they are unrelated. Second, drugs that produce strong dependence are not necessarily the most addictive, that is, there is no strong relationship between the size of withdrawal and size of addiction.  Alcohol and barbiturates produce, by far, the strongest withdrawal and dependence but are only mildly addictive.  On the other hand, cocaine and amphetamine produce only mild withdrawal and dependence but are strongly addictive. Benzodiazepines are not (by any one who has any idea what they are talking about which usually does not include the prescribing doctor unless he is a psychiatrist) addictive. They do produce a MILD dependence and a MILD withdrawal which may make them somewhat habit forming.  The benzos were developed from the drug Miltown which produced a more significant dependence; it was developed from the barbiturates which produce a very strong dependence (again: no addiction).  That is, these drugs represent about 50 years of drug perfecting which has been aimed specifically at reducing this side effect. Historically, there is a lot of confusion about this issue because dependence, withdrawal, and addiction were believed to be the same thing for many decades… this is because the models were based on classical studies of the opiates heroin and morphine for which there is a good correspondence among the phenomena (morphine dependence was widespread after the civil war, and heroin addiction developed soon after Bayer introduced Heroin as a zero side effect version of morphine — it wasn’t).  However, stimulant addiction, which became prevalent in the 60’s has completely abolished this view of addiction, akthough it persists in the popular press and in medical training. The basic story boils down to whether addicts take drugs to avoid the unpleasant consequences of withdrawal (this is the negative reinforcement or dependence view) or for the feeling of a drug high (euphoria — the positive reinforcement view). The bulk of evidence now suggests that the addictive properties of drugs are associated with the ability of a drug to produce a high.  For this reason, very closely related drugs may or may not be addictive. For example, the mechanism of action between vicodin and heroin is the same, but heroin can act much more quickly in the brain and is addictive, whereas vicodin can only produce dependence.  Indeed, the only difference between morphine and heroin is the ability to get in the brain more quickly (indeed, heroin is converted to morphine once it gets in the brain), but heroin is MUCH more addictve. I would suggest you dig out a copy of a RECENT text on addiction… you will find the focus on drug-reinforcing properties and no interest in the ability to produce dependence…. Also the claim that people who are addicted to other drugs will become addicted to benzos is not based on any credible evidence.   moreover, there is considerable evidence that there is a genetic propensity for addiction – that is, regardless of use, only certain people ar susceptible to addiction – even to the most addictive drugs. This is not well understood, but is easy to see even in animal studies. So it is misleading to even say that a drug will be habit-forming, even if it was likely to be a habit-forming drug in the susceptible individual. Back to  benzos they do not really have pronounced reinforcing properties… but they can produce a mild dependence, whose withdrawal consists of a more exaggerated anxiety than one would experience even if you never started taking them. So for this reason, they can be hard to get off of. But you won’t find anyone in a "benzo house’ who sold their family earnings, gave up their children, job, and home, and caught AIDS getting the drug — that is addiction… the kind of dependence benzos produce is similar to that produced by long term aspirin use (withdrawal = headaches) and less than that produced by nosedrops (withdrawal = severe congestion). Later, S (a pharmacologist)

Response:

Addiction vs. Dependency: Benzodiazepines & Anxiety Disorders Xanax is one of several benzodiazepines. The alleged addictiveness of Xanax and other benzodiazepines is a hot topic among people with anxiety disorders and the professionals who treat us. The issue is often discussed on online support groups, sometimes resulting in heated debate. "Needing medication for many years — even over a lifetime — to function normally is not drug abuse or drug addiction but rather medical dependence." — William D. Kernodle, Panic Disorder: The Medical Point of View RESEARCH "In patients without histories of substance abuse, who are prescribed benzodiazepines under medical supervision . . . benzodiazepines almost never induce behavior that satisfies any reasonable definition of addiction" (Piper, Jr., A. "Addiction to Benzodiazepines — How Common?" Archives of Family Medicine 4.11 (1995): 964-970). "Long-term users of alprazolam/lorazepam . . . used a constant or decreasing dose of medication . . . Persistant use of alprazolam/lorazepam for therapeutic purposes did not represent abuse or addiction as the terms are usually understood" (Romach, M., et. al. "Clinical Aspects of Chronic Use of Alprazolam and Lorazepam." American Journal of Psychiatry 152.8 (1995): 1161-1170). "The vast majority of the use of benzodiazepines is appropriate. Problems of nonmedical use arise nearly exclusively among people who abuse other drugs" (Woods, J.H. and G. Winger. "Current Benzodiazepine Issues." Psychopharmacology 118.2 (1995): 107-115). "With panic/agoraphobia patients there is no evidence of abuse. Chronic use is justified in these patients; risk must be weighed against benefit, dependence against relief . . . Potential abusers are those with personality disorders, dysphoria (mood disturbance) and current or previous substance abuse . . . there is no epidemic of misuse. Abuse seems to be limited to substance abusers . . . chronic use is justified in chronic anxiety patients. Chronic use does not usually lead to abuse" (American Psychiatric Association. Benzodiazepine Task Force on Use, Dependence, Toxicity and Abuse. May 1990). The Definitions The term addiction is often equated with abuse. Addiction is generally marked by tolerance and/or psychological dependence. With tolerance, a person needs to increase the dosage of a medication over time in order to receive the same therapeutic benefits. Studies show that the majority of people with anxiety disorders do not increase their benzodiazepine dosages over time; in fact, most lower their dosages. When we think of addiction we are often thinking of psychological dependence. With psychological dependence, a person continues to take a medication no matter what the consequences. The person will also seek out the medication no matter what the consequences. Again, as with tolerance, most studies show that people with anxiety disorders do not become psychologically dependent on benzodiazepines. The exceptions to the studies mentioned above are people who have a history of addiction to other drugs. People with such a history are possibly at risk for becoming addicted to benzodiazepines, too. A condition which does occur with long-term, regular use of benzodiazepines is physical dependence. After using benzodiazepines regularly for a few months (and the time varies for each individual), a person’s body will usually adapt to the drug. If the medication is stopped abruptly, the person will experience withdrawal symptoms. These symptoms may be lessened (or even eliminated) by slowly tapering off the medication, if one chooses to stop taking it. Benzodiazepines should be discontinued only with the supervision of a qualified physician. People who are on medication for an illness for a long time are not addicted to the medication; they are medically dependent on it. They need to keep taking the medication in order to keep the symptoms of the illness away. The majority of anxiety disorders patients who take benzodiazepines over the long term fall into the category of medical dependence. The rest of the article is at http://panicdisorder.about.com/health/panicdisorder/library/weekly/aa031 997.htm Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hello everyone: .I just received the results of my cat scan back and even though it had spread previously it’s staying stable. I go back in January to see the Doctor. At that time he will discuss if I can go back on chemo. I am still not sure about radiation because he said there’s a 10% to 20% chance it will permanently damage my kidney and bowels. If anyone has had radiation I would be glad to hear from them to see how everyting went. Ginny

Response:

Hello everyone: .I just received the results of my cat scan back and even though it had spread previously it’s staying stable. I go back in January to see the Doctor. At that time he will discuss if I can go back on chemo. I am still not sure about radiation because he said there’s a 10% to 20% chance it will permanently damage my kidney and bowels. If anyone has had radiation I would be glad to hear from them to see how everyting went. Ginny

I don’t understand why they are going to wait until January do decide what they are going to do. Do they think the cancer is going to take off for the holidays? Tony

Response:

Hello everyone: .I just received the results of my cat scan back and even though it had spread previously it’s staying stable. I go back in January to see the Doctor. At that time he will discuss if I can go back on chemo. I am still not sure about radiation because he said there’s a 10% to 20% chance it will permanently damage my kidney and bowels. If anyone has had radiation I would be glad to hear from them to see how everyting went. Ginny

<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Terry Moore says: I’ve had radiation but I don’t think I can enlighten you. My tumor was on my spinal column about even with the top of my breastbone. They shot the radiation in through the back  - – - 25 doses – - 5 days a week for 5 weeks. It worked. The cancer has reappeared in other places and I’ve been in surgery twice since the radiation treatment. I’ll be confined to the hospital sometime within the next week or two for treatment with radioactive iodine. As far as I know, the radiation didn’t damage anything while it was curing the bone cancer (on the spinal column). Terry Moore <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Visit Terry Moore’s "Another True Story" web page at: http://www.io.com/~jvaughn/tmoore.htm Copyright (c) 1999 by Terry Moore <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Question:

Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

Response:

Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy

Dear Cathy, you will be fine!! Please let us know what happens. ((((((((Cathy)))))))) Jackie ~~The ocean and I have many pebbles       To find and wash off and roll into shape~~

Response:

  Oooohhhh Cathy,  Hang in there!  This sounds really bad, really uncomfortable.  I can’t believe that if you’re having trouble breathing that they make you wait for a 4:00 appt.!    Take care…….Di Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

Response:

Cathy, I feel for you.  I have also been having trouble with the sinus monster, and have also been having attacks, minor to bad all week.  Please just do your breathing exersises, and let us know what your doc says. d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

Response:

Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy

Hi Cathy.  I’m sending good thoughts your way.  You’ be at the Doctor’s soon. tnx, drr — The second nicest guy on the internet

Response:

Thanks Jackie, d, Di & Dan, it is Bronchitis. Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy Hi Cathy.  I’m sending good thoughts your way.  You’ be at the Doctor’s soon. tnx, drr — The second nicest guy on the internet

Response:

Thanks Jackie, d, Di & Dan, it is Bronchitis. Cathy

Sorry to hear that Cathy. Brochitis sucks, but it’s better than a heart attack or lung cancer or pneumonia. All those wonderful things I’d think of first if it were me! Hope you feel better soon! Best Wishes, Jen

Response:

I did think of all those things first Jen, Now I am on my way to the drug store Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Jackie, d, Di & Dan, time it is Bronchitis. Cathy Sorry to hear that Cathy. Brochitis sucks, but it’s better than a heart attack or lung cancer or pneumonia. All those wonderful things I’d think of first if it were me! Hope you feel better soon! Best Wishes, Jen

Response:

I did think of all those things first Jen, Now I am on my way to the drug store Cathy

LOL! Spoken like a true hypochondriac. I can say that because I have always thought the same way. <G Get some rest and some chicken soup too! Hugs, Jen

Response:

P.H.O.B.I.A. wrote Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy

I hope you are feeling much better and that your appointment went well. My thoughts are with you:) Ray

Response:

Thanks Jackie, d, Di & Dan, time it is Bronchitis. Cathy

Sorry to hear this Cathy, I hope you feel better soon. I’m thinking that you are diabetic (sorry if this is wrong) so take care of yourself, my thoughts are with you. Ray

Response:

Yes Ray I am diabetic, And I discovered something new at the doctors office yesterday.  The doc told me that ibuprofen (motrin) can make your sugar go up.  I did not know this and I have been taking ibuprofen 2 to 3 times a day (600 to 800mg) for a year now bacause of my back.  I wish someone would have told me this before. Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Jackie, d, Di & Dan, time it is Bronchitis. Cathy Sorry to hear this Cathy, I hope you feel better soon. I’m thinking that you are diabetic (sorry if this is wrong) so take care of yourself, my thoughts are with you. Ray

Response:

Hey Cathy what were your symptoms on the bronchitis? Bob

Response:

Bob,  My symptoms were difficulty breathing (which was causing me to panic) and chest pain.  I didn’t have much of a cough, but when I did cough it hurt in my chest and back.  The cough also had a whistle to it. Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Cathy what were your symptoms on the bronchitis? Bob

Response:

Thanks Steph, I am feeling a bit better today and the cough syrup with Codeine really knocked me on my ear.  Sorry to hear you are not feeling well either. Breathing problems are the worst!!!  They make you feel like……well like you are going to suffocate and die.  This has been the worst winter for me in a llooooong time. Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Hi Cathy! Oh Dear! I hope everything turns out ok! I know how you are feeling! I, myself started out with allergies and sinus..Now down in my chest. I have to take breathing treatments every few hours.. I am thinking of you! Hugs! Steph

Response:

Dear ASAP friends, It is taking every ounce of my strength not to panic today.  I have been battling allergies for a week now and it has settled in my chest.  I am having difficulty breathing and chest pains which is making me very anxious. One of my biggest fears in Phenomena, please think good thoughts for me today while I wait for my 4pm Doctor appointment. Cathy P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line Panic/Anxiety Support Group Learn about us at http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

Hi Cathy! Oh Dear! I hope everything turns out ok! I know how you are feeling! I, myself started out with allergies and sinus..Now down in my chest. I have to take breathing treatments every few hours.. I am thinking of you! Hugs! Steph

Response:

Question:

I participated in the 1997 Honolulu Marathon with the LSA and found the actual trip and race enjoyable but the waste of money hypocritical. I paid for my wife to go also and received tax forms just prior to filing that carried the travels expenses (supposedly paid for my LSA) as Earned Income.  I wasn’t told about this but it wouldn’t have mattered. I don’t like being mislead when I’m making that kind of commitment. I raised over $3,600 for them and then they pulled that shit. Mostly I am dissatisfied with the waste of money in the whole thing. LSA definitely believes in the theory that you have to spend money to make money.  They preach that the majority of the funds raised go to education and research but there is an awful lot spent on volunteers (who don’t raise any money) going to Hawaii, rooms, and meals.  Some chapters even provided the participants with running suits, T-shirts, socks, bags, … while others gave the generic LSA T-shirt to us. Maybe I just didn’t get along with the Dallas Chapter.  I was given the opportunity to go to Hawaii and I did what it took to get there for the experience.  I don’t think I will do it again regardless of where the site is.  It’s not supposed to be about where we get to go, it’s supposed to be about the kids. SV

Response:

     You’re absolutely right it is about the kids.  That is why I paid for my trip and my wife’s trip to the San Diego Rock n’ Roll Marathon.  I also raised over $7100 for the Leukemia Society of America and have established an incredible friendship with my patient hero.      I am now a mentor and coach with the Leukemia Society of America Western PA/West Virgina Chapter.  Even though I’m not required to raise funds as a coach, I still plan to be the top fundraiser for our chapter again next year. Tim "Fast Food" Hamburger

        I am interested in "Team in Training", how does it work?  Do they train people to run a marathon?  Or must already be able to run a marathon?   Eric

Response:

     You’re absolutely right it is about the kids.  That is why I paid for my trip and my wife’s trip to the San Diego Rock n’ Roll Marathon.  I also raised over $7100 for the Leukemia Society of America and have established an incredible friendship with my patient hero.        I am now a mentor and coach with the Leukemia Society of America Western PA/West Virgina Chapter.  Even though I’m not required to raise funds as a coach, I still plan to be the top fundraiser for our chapter again next year. Tim "Fast Food" Hamburger

Response:

I am interested in "Team in Training", how does it work?  Do they train people to run a marathon?  Or must already be able to run a marathon?   Eric

Eric,      Team in Training offers volunteer coaches that will help you prepare to run a marathon.  I am currently coaching a large group with varying running backgrounds.  If you truly want to run a marathon…Team in Training will help you attain this goal. Sincerely, Tim "Fast Food" Hamburger

Response:

Question:

I will have a urostomy in the next few weeks. I’m trying to decide on the external pouch vs the Indiana pouch. I’d appreciate comments from anyone concerning the pros and cons. I’m glad you folks are here……

Response:

I will have a urostomy in the next few weeks. I’m trying to decide on the external pouch vs the Indiana pouch. I’d appreciate comments from anyone concerning the pros and cons. I’m glad you folks are here…… Gil

Response:

In article ,   Gil Brezler  wrote: > I will have a urostomy in the next few weeks. I’m trying to decide on > the external pouch vs the Indiana pouch. I’d appreciate comments from > anyone concerning the pros and cons. > I’m glad you folks are here…… > Gil

Hi Gil I am a recent urostomy convert and I will add my two cents worth..My bladder and prostate were removed on 10 Nov 97 after three yrs fighting bladder cancer. So far I have not finalized on which external appliance I will stay with. I have tried several and the biggest problem has been making them last more than three days. When they start leaking, just try another.. The whole thing is not near the problem I expected it to be, I am lucky to have a daughter who has become very adept at changing the bags. Later when we get settled on which one we will stay with, I will learn to change it myself…I hope!! Contact me if I can answer any other stuff Bill ——————-==== Posted via Deja News ====———————–       http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Response:

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:30:31 -0500, Gil Brezler <Gil.Brez…@digital.com> wrote: >I will have a urostomy in the next few weeks. I’m trying to decide on >the external pouch vs the Indiana pouch. I’d appreciate comments from >anyone concerning the pros and cons. >I’m glad you folks are here…… >Gil

        I’ve had an external pouch for 35 years and it has caused me very little problem.  I have led an active life and have never been prevented from doing anything (sport, travel, work etc) because of my urostomy.  My urological consultant in the UK is quite happy for me to continue with the external pouch – his view is that whilst it continues to give good service there is no point in changing.         However, I get the impression that he would recommed an internal pouch if I was much younger as he thinks an external pouch may give some problems in later life.  Having said that, I never had a serious problem and I am now 55.         Hope this helps David Carpenter

Response:

On 12/22/97 8:11PM, in message <882842903.2012938…@dejanews.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bill…@ala.net wrote: > In article , >   Gil Brezler  wrote: > > I will have a urostomy in the next few weeks. I’m trying to decide on > > the external pouch vs the Indiana pouch. I’d appreciate comments from > > anyone concerning the pros and cons. > > I’m glad you folks are here…… > > Gil > Hi Gil I am a recent urostomy convert and I will add my two cents > worth..My bladder and prostate were removed on 10 Nov 97 after three yrs > fighting bladder cancer. So far I have not finalized on which external > appliance I will stay with. I have tried several and the biggest problem > has been making them last more than three days. When they start leaking, > just try another.. The whole thing is not near the problem I expected it > to be, I am lucky to have a daughter who has become very adept at > changing the bags. Later when we get settled on which one we will stay > with, I will learn to change it myself…I hope!! Contact me if I can > answer any other stuff Bill > ——————-==== Posted via Deja News ====———————– >       http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet

I had urostomy  in May !992.  I have the external pouch and  I change the appliance every Friday.  It is really not much trouble to change and I do it myself except my wife does help me center the opening in the wafer over my Stoma. The News Letter I received today from the local Ostomy Association had a section on the Indianna pouch which described the necessity of emptying the internal pouch on time, the things you need to do to prevent infection, the need to irrigate and various other things you need to do if you have the internal pouch.  It made me very glad that I have the exterior  type. The surgery  for the interior pouch takes a couple of hours or so longer and is generally harder on the patient than the surgery for the exterior pouch.   I have little or no problem with leaks, etc. Merry Christmas. YTS

Response:

On 12/22/97 8:11PM, in message <882842903.2012938…@dejanews.com>, bill…@ala.net wrote: > In article , >   Gil Brezler  wrote: > > I will have a urostomy in the next few weeks. I’m trying to decide on > > the external pouch vs the Indiana pouch. I’d appreciate comments from > > anyone concerning the pros and cons. > > I’m glad you folks are here…… > > Gil

I’d say that it would depend more upon a person’s lifestyle.  My brother and I have urostomys.  His is internal, mine is external.  We both are retired and happy with the kind we have. He lives in Florida, plays golf a lot and is always close by a facility for emptying.  I live in Minnesota and like to fish from a boat all day and also march in the Legion Color Guard at various places during the summer.  I like the idea of being able to spend the whole day without emptying (by also wearing a legbag).  I never asked him if he has to get up during the night to empty, but I bet he does.  Getting up a couple of times during the night was something I was glad to get behind me after my surgery. Earl

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Question:

<< we gave ourselves a birthday present for the first time ever. our present was Allie, our dog.  three months later we got fired from our job, and three months after that we were home- less.  we asked our friend to take care of our dog, until we found a place.  however, the place we found would not let us have a dog.  our dog was causing our friend’s dog to have seizures, so we had to take our dog to the Humane Society. we cannot forgive ourselves for what we did to our dog. we will never forget the look on our face when we had to place her in the kennel at the humane society. we miss her so much.  there are not many things that make us cry (or at least so that we can control the tears, but this is one that we cannot control the tears).  It has been only one year since we had to take her to the humane society. we hope she found a new home…one that could take better care of her than we did.  we are so sorry. becki becki, It sounds like you did the best thing you could for Allie under the circumstances.  You certainly didn’t do anything wrong or bad.  You did the best thing possible when you knew you could not take care of her the way she needed to be taken care of. I don’t know if this helps, but it might…the Humane Society is a MUCH better place than the pound, because provided an animal is healthy, she/he will find a home.  The HS does not put animals to sleep after a week or two if they have not been adopted.  The animals stay until someone takes them home.  BTW…"healthy" does not mean young and in perfect health.  (I know, for example, that cats w/respiratory infections and other minor ailments are treated and adopted out.)  It’s the animals with things like feline leukemia and other nasty things that will definitely harm other animals in the HS who are euthenized.  Any animal you see at the HS has passed the "health inspection," and will eventually find a home. I am sure Allie found someone to love and take care of her.  I am still very sorry you had to give her up.  She knows you love her…they always know Jen — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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we think you did the right thing, too. we have similar feelings of loss and sadness and wonder if we did the right thing…we don’t think we did, but we didn’t have any other choice. we gave ourselves a birthday present for the first time ever. our present was Allie, our dog.  three months later we got fired from our job, and three months after that we were home- less.  we asked our friend to take care of our dog, until we found a place.  however, the place we found would not let us have a dog.  our dog was causing our friend’s dog to have seizures, so we had to take our dog to the Humane Society. we cannot forgive ourselves for what we did to our dog. we will never forget the look on our face when we had to place her in the kennel at the humane society. we miss her so much.  there are not many things that make us cry (or at least so that we can control the tears, but this is one that we cannot control the tears).  It has been only one year since we had to take her to the humane society. we hope she found a new home…one that could take better care of her than we did.  we are so sorry. becki

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: I’m not sure if this might be : of help to you, but I understand : that most bookstores will allow : you to return the book if it : does not satisfactory. : re:  Dr. Hulda Clark’s book, :      "The Cure For All Diseases" :      (copywrite 1995)  594 pages, —snip : Here’s my analysis of Clark’s book: : 1 – The title is rather bombastic, pompous, and : is guaranteed to turn off 99.5% of "normal" : readers. True… : 2 – The book’s theories should be taken up : individually, and criticized {if criticism is : indeed warranted} individually. : 3 – I believe that her "pollution causes : disease" information is largely correct : because it is echoed by many environmental : physicians also.  This part of the book : (which is about 40% of it, is probably :  beyond reproach, and in this layman’s :  opinion, in sync with current knowledge.) Seems to be true… : 4 – Her "wildest" theory is that a $30 : device built out of Radio Shack parts could : zap disease causing viruses, bacterias, and : parasites.  But, heck, $30 is a nominal : amount to prove or disprove her claim. : We’re going to build a machine to find : out.  (The ZAPPER might just be the : "cold-fusion" of medicine, if it is : proven to work.) I have built and am testing the Zapper. : However, I must say that IF Clark’s ZAPPER : is a "fraud" — it would be inconsistent with : the rest of the book — which seems full of : verifyable facts.  There is a possibility : that it might just WORK — and it it does, : conventional medicine might just as well : fold 75% of its’ practice.  There is no : doubt that a massive "turf-war" would ensue : and that vested interests would try to : destroy Clark and her theories before : they become widespread. : The books’s "prove it yourself" approach : is wonderful.  She gives you the parts list : to allow you to build your own "zappers" : and "synchrometers". :     Seems to me that the "hobby" Syncrometer : could be a very primitive type of "VEGA machine" : used by some environmental doctors. : 5 – Clark’s Syncrometer plans lacks a diagram : for the "plate" portion.  The picture in another : chapter doesn’t help.  Does anyone there have a : simple drawing of how this looks like?  (She gives : a "textual" explanation of how to build it, but : not being an electronics techie, I can’t make : sense out of her instructions.) : I’d like to get a Syncrometer built, if the zapper : works. I am currently building a Resonant Synchrometer. There is a more detailed version of the plans in her other book THE CURE FOR ALL CANCERS I have not completed or tested it, but when it is operational I would be happy to supply you with a more detailed plate schematic or any other info. : 6 – Overall?  I don’t think we should look at the : book in an "overall" way.  However, there is : no question in this layman’s mind that the book : is worth $25 just for the environmental-heath : portion alone.  The "pollutants" information Clark : provides is worth 100 years of Consumer Reports : magazines, in my mind. : However, if Clark’s ZAPPER works, she should be give : 10 Nobel prizes and be nominated to run the : government’s public-health program. I have had some positive results using the Zapper. However to claim that it could cure AIDS or Cancer would be irresponsible at this stage. She claims it will kill all forms of parasitic invaders which if left to their own devices would cause AIDS and Cancer.                      ^^^^^ : 7 – Clark’s book is unusual in that she condemns : 80% of vitamins and health-food supplements as : being "too impure".   This is an intrepid : statement — given that her book would probably : be sold mainly by health-food stores. Interestingly in her book she freely gives permission to reproduce any portion for non-commercial purposes. This altruism seems to reinforce her as a healer and not just a health-fad businesswoman. Because of her openess and the scarcity of the information I am in planning stages of a "Cure" website. Any parties interested in submitting case histories or even contradictory information would be appreciated. The full disclosure of means and methods as described in the book will appear at the site as well as independent research and evidence. The medical profession is just that, a lifelong struggle to control symptoms while ignoring the underlying causes. When an organ becomes too infected or toxic- snip- out it comes. Dr. Clark’s approach, while seemingly preposterous in the face of a multi-billion dollar medical industry focuses in on the very things that are causing illness. The tiny and otherwise discounted parasites, food toxins and environmental pollution. These she claims are what has brought modern man’s immunities to a dangerous point, unable to cope and confused. If the entire body is treated as an intelligent entity (not just the mind) than you could say that our modern industrial life has made us stupid. Our poor livers, kidneys and immune systems overburdened with the accumulation of a lifetime of microcontaminants, have made us become like walking petrie dishes in dire need of cleansing. Better diet, cleaner environment and avoidance of toxic solvents and chemicals. The road to well being seems accessible to all. sage —     P__H__A__N__T__O__M       *http://home.navisoft.com/sage*

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I’m not sure if this might be of help to you, but I understand that most bookstores will allow you to return the book if it does not satisfactory. re:  Dr. Hulda Clark’s book,      "The Cure For All Diseases"      (copywrite 1995)  594 pages, When I first heard about Clark’s theories, I immediately discounted them as loony-tunes. Three days ago, a good friend, who is very sensible, cautious, and skeptical, lent me "The Cure For All Diseases." (About 600 pages, full of data.) To be honest, I had no intention of reading the book because I had already discounted her theories out of hand prior. However, as I scanned the materials, I was astounded at some of the very, very obscure FACTS that she had uncovered.  Some of them mirrored our own "discoveries" either through actual [amateur] experiments or by research of scientific journals. (example – common table salt has a hidden ingredient, aluminum;  water from an electric hot water heater has dissolved metals such as tungsten; health supplements have concealed pollutants which the manufacturer doesn’t tell the public.) Here’s my analysis of Clark’s book: 1 – The title is rather bombastic, pompous, and is guaranteed to turn off 99.5% of "normal" readers. 2 – The book’s theories should be taken up individually, and criticized {if criticism is indeed warranted} individually. 3 – I believe that her "pollution causes disease" information is largely correct because it is echoed by many environmental physicians also.  This part of the book (which is about 40% of it, is probably  beyond reproach, and in this layman’s  opinion, in sync with current knowledge.) 4 – Her "wildest" theory is that a $30 device built out of Radio Shack parts could zap disease causing viruses, bacterias, and parasites.  But, heck, $30 is a nominal amount to prove or disprove her claim. We’re going to build a machine to find out.  (The ZAPPER might just be the "cold-fusion" of medicine, if it is proven to work.) However, I must say that IF Clark’s ZAPPER is a "fraud" — it would be inconsistent with the rest of the book — which seems full of verifyable facts.  There is a possibility that it might just WORK — and it it does, conventional medicine might just as well fold 75% of its’ practice.  There is no doubt that a massive "turf-war" would ensue and that vested interests would try to destroy Clark and her theories before they become widespread. The books’s "prove it yourself" approach is wonderful.  She gives you the parts list to allow you to build your own "zappers" and "synchrometers".     Seems to me that the "hobby" Syncrometer could be a very primitive type of "VEGA machine" used by some environmental doctors. 5 – Clark’s Syncrometer plans lacks a diagram for the "plate" portion.  The picture in another chapter doesn’t help.  Does anyone there have a simple drawing of how this looks like?  (She gives a "textual" explanation of how to build it, but not being an electronics techie, I can’t make sense out of her instructions.) I’d like to get a Syncrometer built, if the zapper works. 6 – Overall?  I don’t think we should look at the book in an "overall" way.  However, there is no question in this layman’s mind that the book is worth $25 just for the environmental-heath portion alone.  The "pollutants" information Clark provides is worth 100 years of Consumer Reports magazines, in my mind. However, if Clark’s ZAPPER works, she should be give 10 Nobel prizes and be nominated to run the government’s public-health program. 7 – Clark’s book is unusual in that she condemns 80% of vitamins and health-food supplements as being "too impure".   This is an intrepid statement — given that her book would probably be sold mainly by health-food stores.  * feel free to pass this info to any other    sufferers who might want to use it. PS – I’m not recommending that      anyone buy this book, and I’m not      being paid by anyone to tell you      about it.  I hate liars and anyone      who makes money out of deceit.

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